Vibration question

[Mark R.]

Very generous offer you have made. I can do without my bike for a while, but I have not experienced the vibration as of yet (8000 miles only) so I want to let someone with real problems take you up on your offer.

 

[mcbrien]

PM and email sent ::008::

 

[sharealike]

Yes. Way back close to the start of this thread the contributors coupled with a few pointers of how to test narrowed down the cause of the vibration to be from the clutch. Since than I have modified trial baskets for some for free already and these are out on test, or in the case of the last one its about to be. There are no vibrations in these modified baskets. Even in the often mentioned narrow rpm band under medium to heavy load they don't vibrate. Like the pioneering engineering work I first kicked off with the VStroms and SV1000's for owners round the world this past four years, I am now totally satisfied the ST basket development work and results are as good as can be obtained.

Currently very busy with ST and Suzuki DL/SV basket modifications so just now I'm only able to meet requests for modification work on the ST from mid January onward. The free (but for the postage) service is now closed. I will have to charge to cover the going rate for post, parts, handling and something for time in the machine shop.

Here's what's going wrong shown a few months back in this same thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QES7_GQb6PY

 

[~TABASCO~]

The wear here on the stock basket will be eliminated with the hardened inserts that Barnetts installs in the picture below..

Here is an example of the inserts installed on the Barnetts. Had a conversation with those folks about a completely new basket a few days ago.. Looking forward to trying it out...

 

[Koinz]

As my old high school Machine shop teacher used to say "slicker than snot". ::025::

He was a cantankerous old Englishman, but he had hands of gold when it came to lathes, milling machines, etc...

 

[sharealike]

As my old high school Machine shop teacher used to say "slicker than snot". ::025::

He was a cantankerous old Englishman, but he had hands of gold when it came to lathes, milling machines, etc...

So am I. Old Englishman that is. Been round a good few too many machines in my life but never found hands of gold.

Tabasco - The marks in my ST basket pictures to explain what's going on are not true wear. Just witness marks because the basket is not cast at all even or I should say it goes out of shape once the heavy loads are added. Needs a bit more wear on the splines and it could reduce the vibrations. A good few owners report no vibes at high distances on their original baskets. I had asked an after market basket manufacturer price up a new casting for the Suzuki's four years back. Said there was no way it would cost in because the numbers were so low. Tried them three times and another when the numbers were staring to strengthen after two years. Still none of them were interested. Didn't even ask for a basket to measure up to copy and cut from billet to try. They were already half way there as the plate pack was the same as a Busa GSX1300. Already made a drag racing basket for that but still fitted on the original gear and used same springs/problem plates. Just asked me to sell them my findings with a look before pay. Have you sent them an ST basket to work from yet?

Those Barnett hard steel inserts might knock hell out of the relatively soft tangs of the aluminium ST friction plates. Need to match the hardness of the touching parts. Might clatter like crazy after a bit of use. They will also have to come up with an extra set of splines for the damping friction plate in the ST as used in most good refined bike clutches. Those basket pictures look like replacements for smaller short life dirt bike baskets that notch up quickly and trash their plates. Very good business for after market manufacturers. If anyone can sort it out your side of the pond it will be Barnett.

I will run a service over here with lifetime rebuilds as long as the owner still has the bike. Same as for the Suzuki's.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Yep.. They have one.. Looking at this situation in a different light... They have about 60-70 years experience. Barnett makes baskets for many applications and have the engineers and resources to develop any 'clutch' for any application. The pictures I posted are very quick pictures I grabbed to show the liners. The Tenere will be more robust obviously due to the abuse of the application. If there is deflection or slight deformation with the stock basket we cant control that with any mod in that casting. Cutting a new one out of a solid billet block, they can control any aspects of the load in many load applications in software and test rig. Somewhat similar to what you have. Hope we can learn a few new things and stop my vibe... I've already fixed a stock basket and know how to fix that unit. The problem and the fix is pretty straight forward on the stock unit. But really, modifying the stock basket is truly a band-aid to the 'real' issue. For the folks looking to fix there 'vibe', looks to be several options..

What do you get to fix a customers stock basket ? The Barnetts billet basket has been proposed at a price of $250..... The 2014 Tenere clutch based off of the 2013 is in the ball park of $400-500..... Gives all the folks all the numbers to take a look at if they feel they have an issue with there clutch. I think my issue is due to, too much of this ! ::26::

 

[roll_it_on]

Well I have received my updated basket back from over the pond that John (AKA Sharealike) modified. I will be putting that in my bike over the weekend and taking it out for trial run and will report back. More to come ::001::

 

[sharealike]

Well I have received my updated basket back from over the pond that John (AKA Sharealike) modified. I will be putting that in my bike over the weekend and taking it out for trial run and will report back. More to come ::001::

Thank you for your support, time and patience in all this. Plenty riding on the outcome of this in more ways than one.

I wish to make clear this is the very first ST basket trialled for me by roll_it_on. He was also one of the very first to trial my original VStrom clutch basket modification nearly four years back.

UPS shrunk the pond. Really do have "The world on time".

Pickup Scan United Kingdom 12/16/2013 1:51 P.M.

Delivered CA, United States 12/18/2013 2:59 P.M.

That's just two days door to door. Do this regularly with other parts.

 

[sharealike]

Yep.. They have one.. ...The problem and the fix is pretty straight forward on the stock unit. But really, modifying the stock basket is truly a band-aid to the 'real' issue. For the folks looking to fix there 'vibe', looks to be several options..

What do you get to fix a customers stock basket ? The Barnetts billet basket has been proposed at a price of $250..... The 2014 Tenere clutch based off of the 2013 is in the ball park of $400-500..... Gives all the folks all the numbers to take a look at if they feel they have an issue with there clutch. I think my issue is due to, too much of this ! ::26::

Some of these engines vibrate before reaching the first fill up after leaving the showroom. Not going to be down to riding style for many.

I assure you fixing the stock unit is far from straight forward. Taken me from the start date of this thread until now with various designs, developments and trials. I don't do Band-Aid and as result of my extensive investigations and trials can assure you I know the very "real" issues in the ST clutch baskets damper. Source of the problem is in the damper. Not the basket. Only external visible sign is on the basket.

You need to explain what their proposed billet basket might involve for that proposed price. Just a basket is only half the fix and still leaves plenty to be done by the owner.

Owners need a built up working solution that's a straight swap with a fair degree of certainty it would work and with proven workmanship.

Don't hang your hat on the new 2014 bike having anything different about the clutches torsion damper that will be backwards compatible. The latest Yamaha marketing blurb talks about changing things in the drive line and hub of the back wheel.

More interesting is they will introduce vibration absorbing mounts for the bars. The clutch torsion damper generated vibrations may still be there if they have not found the source. Those new mounts are a very expensive placebo if they have cured the problems from the clutch.

 

[Koinz]

I too have emailed both sharealike and realshelby to see what can be done reduce or eliminate the vibration. Mine isn't too bad, but I find myself riding outside the RPM range. I was apprehensive sending my basket overseas this time of year, so I had planned on waiting until after the holidays, but an opportunity opened up and I sent it realshelby. It should be back today or tomorrow and if the weather holds up, I'll take it for a spin.
Let me say that I respect both Realshelby and Sharealike for stepping up in addressing this issue and without test units in the field we'll never be able to drill down into the main causes of the issue. I will report back with my honest evaluation in the hope that it further helps determine the ultimate cause. As I have mentioned, I did ride yamaguys s10 and In my opinion it's a huge improvement, but I did feel a very small amount of vibes (and in a more narrow rpm range) that I personally would call acceptable.

If this process turns into a grudge match between vendors, it'll be the last post I submit on this topic. So let's keep it professional please.
::026::

 

[EricV]

If this process turns into a grudge match between vendors, it'll be the last post I submit on this topic. So let's keep it professional please.
::026::

Hopefully we can keep sharing opinions and experience to gain from each other's perspectives. Things like this are difficult to pin down and what bothers one to the extreme, another may hardly notice. In some cases in the past, I couldn't tell you something existed, until I noticed that it went away. (thinking of fork brace on the FJR) And even then it was subtle. Other things are night and day, but not for every bike or rider.

 

[sharealike]

Let me say that I respect both Realshelby and Sharealike for stepping up in addressing this issue and without test units in the field we'll never be able to drill down into the main causes of the issue. I will report back with my honest evaluation in the hope that it further helps determine the ultimate cause.

If this process turns into a grudge match between vendors, it'll be the last post I submit on this topic. So let's keep it professional please.
::026::

Thank you for the recognition. I could have this wrong, but feel I'm being ticked off for my open show all contribution. Please point out anything you think unprofessional in what I have shared here with all, including potential vendors, perhaps future competitors and those who might be following that don't even sign up. It will be removed.

May I politely remind you that with the generous help of contributors to this thread over many months and after plenty of hard work I know the ultimate cause. And developed what has proved to be a radical fix. My work has proved beyond doubt that the clutch damper vibration can be banished completely from the XT1200 engine. Please note I write this with complete confidence before roll_it_on shares his impressions of my modified basket that he is yet to fit and test.

I contribute here as part of my hobby in fixing the thought to be unfixable things in bikes. Particularly in their transmissions. I welcome open and honest technical discussion with those who might have a view or interest. I assure you it's just technical. I don't wear the vendor hat all that comfortably. But if owners request I perform the work for them, then rules here dictate a vendor I must become.

There is no issue sending items across the pond. I receive over a hundred packets from the US each year and send the same back. Similar volumes to other countries around the world. That's at all times of the year. Not one single case of damage or loss.

 

[Mzee]

Thank you for the recognition. I could have this wrong, but feel I'm being ticked off for my open show all contribution. Please point out anything you think unprofessional in what I have shared here with all, including potential vendors, perhaps future competitors and those who might be following that don't even sign up. It will be removed.

May I politely remind you that with the generous help of contributors to this thread over many months and after plenty of hard work I know the ultimate cause. And developed what has proved to be a radical fix. My work has proved beyond doubt that the clutch damper vibration can be banished completely from the XT1200 engine. Please note I write this with complete confidence before roll_it_on shares his impressions of my modified basket that he is yet to fit and test.

I contribute here as part of my hobby in fixing the thought to be unfixable things in bikes. Particularly in their transmissions. I welcome open and honest technical discussion with those who might have a view or interest. I assure you it's just technical. I don't wear the vendor hat all that comfortably. But if owners request I perform the work for them, then rules here dictate a vendor I must become.

There is no issue sending items across the pond. I receive over a hundred packets from the US each year and send the same back. Similar volumes to other countries around the world. That's at all times of the year. Not one single case of damage or loss.

Hello Sharealike. I am not technically oriented and gifted as you are and so my contributions to this thread are to merely understand the sort of issues the bike we ride has and how this can be fixed. In part I totally depend on you knowledge to appreciate what the problem is and what the solution is.

I have two questions: The vibration, is it something one can notice easily. I am assuming that bikes must have a certain amount of vibration. How does one tell, in a manner of speaking, normal vibration from one that results from bad mechanics. Secondly, does Yamaha take a thread like this seriously, i.e., do they even look.

Finally this part that you are making, when will it be available for all of us to buy?

 

[EricV]

Hello Sharealike. I am not technically oriented and gifted as you are and so my contributions to this thread are to merely understand the sort of issues the bike we ride has and how this can be fixed. In part I totally depend on you knowledge to appreciate what the problem is and what the solution is.

I have two questions: The vibration, is it something one can notice easily. I am assuming that bikes must have a certain amount of vibration. How does one tell, in a manner of speaking, normal vibration from one that results from bad mechanics. Secondly, does Yamaha take a thread like this seriously, i.e., do they even look.

Finally this part that you are making, when will it be available for all of us to buy?

Mzee - Read back thru the thread. It will be worth it. The vibration being discussed here varies in perception from bike to bike and rider to rider. Most will not feel it when the bikes are new, but as they break in, many aspects of the motor get smoother around 6-10k miles, but in some cases there is a vibration in the 3-4k rpm range that gets worse, most noticeable for me under load. If you pull the clutch lever in slightly, (not enough to allow the clutch to slip), the vibrations lessen. This is an indication that the vibrations are from the clutch area, rather than more general engine vibrations.

The parts being modified are part of the Clutch Basket. It is not a simple matter of you purchasing a part to install on your bike. It is a matter of removing the Clutch Basket from your bike and shipping it to one of the individuals to be modified, then re-installing it when you get it back. For some, this is something the owner can do, for others, it would require having a shop remove the part and re-install it.

Some would say that if you have to ask what the vibration is, you're not experiencing it at a level to worry about. Nothing will break or fail if you simply ride the bike. It's not a repair, but rather a modification to refine. For some, this is part of an overall attempt to reduce vibration that has bothered them greatly. For others, it's merely an attempt to make a good bike even better by reducing a vibration that creeps in as the miles build up.

Hope that helps.

 

[Koinz]

The modifications are taking a large percentage of the vibration away, what is left is mostly only noticeable under a decent load in a narrow rpm range.

I received my basket this morning and had an opportunity to take the bike out for about a 50 mile loop. The quote above is from realshelby and is consistent with my initial observations. In addition, the initial vibrations before the modded basket started around 2800 and remained to about 3500 RPM. The damper springs were loose on the basket as well.

Upon receiving the modded basket, none Of the springs were loose and when ridden the vibration that was felt under load had moved to around 3500 rpm and gone within a couple of hundred of rpm thereafter.

No vibration was felt under moderate acceleration through the gears. It is definitely a major improvement from the stock basket. Tomorrow should be another good day for a ride (if it doesn't rain) so I'll try some more varied riding under load and in different gears. Initially the vibration is easier to replicate in the higher gears (3rd, 4th) and acceleration from 2500 and up.

I'm just speculating here, but since the damper springs are now under some tension from the get go, is that why the vibration has been moved up in the rpm range?

Thanks all for your efforts here.

 

[realshelby]

I'm just speculating here, but since the damper springs are now under some tension from the get go, is that why the vibration has been moved up in the rpm range?

Changing how the springs engage can change where you feel the vibrations. Your basket is unique in how the modifications were made and it is doing what I would have predicted. Now that I am getting a good feel for what is working and where it helps I have a couple other ideas that I need to work on to better eliminate the vibrations.

 

[roll_it_on]

Update: I just got back in from a much longer test ride after installing the modified clutch basket I received from John (Sharealike) a few days ago. I am very pleased with the outcome for sure. The bike now runs like it should and what I had hoped for since I purchased it. The annoying vibration this bike made in the 2800 to 3500 rpm range when rolling on the throttle has been my only real grip with this otherwise fantastic machine. I have to say based on my ride today through the hills (trying every which way to make it chudder) that it is sorted now and what a pleasure to have that gone. It is noticeably smoother throughout the rpm range and in sport mode rolling on the throttle at any rpm or load does not produce the same level of vibration that it did before. I am a happy camper. ::012::

 

[ianf]

+1 roll it on,as you know ive been testing one of john.s clutch baskets here in the uk.ive found the latest version to be excellent.All of the clutch vibration has been cured in my bike.I agree with you,this clutch vibration has been spoiling an excellent bike. I can now enjoy,well,when the weather gets better, Ian

 

[Koinz]

Great news. Hoping some reports from others if they're able. ::012::

I couldn't make it out today. Morning rain and threatening skies thereafter.