Vibration question

[sharealike]

+1 roll it on,as you know ive been testing one of john.s clutch baskets here in the uk.ive found the latest version to be excellent.All of the clutch vibration has been cured in my bike.I agree with you,this clutch vibration has been spoiling an excellent bike. I can now enjoy,well,when the weather gets better, Ian

Update: I just got back in from a much longer test ride after installing the modified clutch basket I received from John (Sharealike) a few days ago. I am very pleased with the outcome for sure. The bike now runs like it should and what I had hoped for since I purchased it. The annoying vibration this bike made in the 2800 to 3500 rpm range when rolling on the throttle has been my only real grip with this otherwise fantastic machine. I have to say based on my ride today through the hills (trying every which way to make it chudder) that it is sorted now and what a pleasure to have that gone. It is noticeably smoother throughout the rpm range and in sport mode rolling on the throttle at any rpm or load does not produce the same level of vibration that it did before. I am a happy camper. ::012::

Thank you ianf and roll_it_on for your support and patience through the prototyping and testing of the re-designed engine torsion damper - aka clutch basket. Ianf, although here in the UK is still a full days ride away and roll_it_on in CA being a long haul flight away means we never met. Everything we shared was via phone calls or email with pictures attached. And of course the shipping about of the prototype baskets. It's been much like four years ago with the Suzuki modifications where complete strangers were willing to send me their clutch baskets. Just a thing between fellow motorcycle enthusiasts.

I'm very confident what we have is the solution to the source of the engine vibration problem as described here by roll_it_on. It's available for all to fit but there is one further stage to go with the testing. Many other owners back in this thread were also experiencing unacceptable levels of vibration through the handle bars. The forum has other handle bar vibration threads running. Some here reported feathering the clutch lever while testing for the clutch vibration was also reducing or banishing the vibration in the bars. Would be very helpful if they made contact so that we could test to see if the clutch modification is also the cure for some or all of the vibration through the handle bars. Yamaha are fitting anti vibration mounts for the bars in 2014. Would be fantastic if this modification could address both problems for the earlier bikes. Any owners willing to volunteer?

 

[realshelby]

roll_it_on has been a true Pioneer in this clutch vibration journey. His experience with the V Strom allowed him to have a feel for clutch issues that only comes from experience, especially the experience of riding with modified versions of clutch baskets that make a huge difference. The V Stroms clutch chudder is MUCH more pronounced than the ST, but neither machine has to be ridden with it now.

Recently roll_it_on installed a modified clutch basket built by Sharealike in Europe. This basket has eliminated the vibrations to the point they are either gone or just don't matter. The reason this is important is that roll_it_on has been running an older version of one of my modified ST clutch baskets as well as trying a brand new OEM basket so he has an excellent base line to compare from. I give a tip of my hat to my competitor Sharealike for his work in solving the vibration issues!

I have some later versions that owners here are running that are very good. I have some work to do to make them 100% and I think I know the direction I need to go to do that. Honestly I have not seen a lot of interest in the modifications like I would expect to and that has probably kept me from doing more with the ST. But I now know there is a complete fix that I imagine will be permanent and a worthy upgrade to any ST. Still one wonders if the new ST's might have a completely different design that will address this?

 

[snakebitten]

Nice post. I really like the community etiquette of it.
An open endorsement with credibility.

You guys on this forum are amazing.

I suspect further info is coming? I'm one of the "my bike doesn't have any unusual vibrations" guys. But I was also one of the "bike runs fantastic. Why would I need to flash the ECU?" guys too.

Ate crow once.
Ready for a second helping if it's due.

 

[sharealike]

Nice post. I really like the community etiquette of it.
An open endorsement with credibility.

You guys on this forum are amazing.

I suspect further info is coming?

Much more to come. ::008:: No time for PR and the fluffy distracting sales stuff though. Must have six Suzuki modified baskets out the door by Wednesday so they are with their owners (in four different countries) for the weekend. Then its a take down of my machines to adapt the tooling to include XT1200 ST basket modifications arriving next week. And this is supposed to be my retirement hobby.

 

[arjayes]

Very interested in how this project turns out. As I come up on 800 miles on the odo the bike has started to improve noticeably. The biggest improvement by far has been the gear box - shifting has gotten MUCH smoother. Unfortunately the vibes have not mellowed much yet. I had not ridden my KLR since picking up the ST about 3 weeks ago, but took it out over the weekend. Couldn't believe how much lighter it felt (the ST is a pig!), and even more surprising is that the thumper KLR was quite a bit smoother than the ST at most RPMs. I keep reading here that around 1500 miles is where the ST really starts to calm down, so I'll be patient. But if that doesn't happen on mine I'll definitely be looking at options for a fix.

 

[sharealike]

Thank you for your contribution arjayes. Do you think the bike vibrated straight off the showroom floor? A few have reported this. Have you performed that "feathering the clutch" check as you pass through the vibes to see if they reduce? That should help you separate out the potential clutch sourced vibration from something else. And I guess most owners with similar problems would like to know your dealers response.

Had a run out to visit four local Yamaha workshops here in the UK back when roll_it _on first asked me for ideas. The couple that were still in business claimed no knowledge of any vibration issues. Turned out they had only sold one bike each when I found the Sales Managers. I went back to one of these later in the year and had very quick "unofficial test ride" on a brand new demo bike - about 250 miles on it. Asked the salesman who lent me the keys and had used the bike a few days earlier why it was not as refined as I (and he) expected for a twin with balancer shafts. Said I should go look on the forums - so that was loop complete very quickly.

Please try to come back and let us know more as you get to know it better. Proved the clutch damper redesign I performed is good in two independent bikes and on two continents. Still hungry for any information from "real world" users though. Such as good evidence that proved the clutch vibration there today was gone tomorrow - well perhaps in another few 000 miles.

 

[Kiwi Graham]

Haven't reached the 1000k mark on mine yet and am aware of a rumbling vibration from about 2,800 - 3,500 revs but thought this was a big twin thing?

I'll mention it on its first service and if it doesn't smooth out I'll see if they will swap it out for the 2014 clutch basket under warranty.

Love the bike to bits otherwise

 

[Red dust]

Hope the 2014 model is available soon for a test ride, seems like they tried to rectify the "known" issue.

 

[arjayes]

Thank you for your contribution arjayes. Do you think the bike vibrated straight off the showroom floor? A few have reported this. Have you performed that "feathering the clutch" check as you pass through the vibes to see if they reduce? That should help you separate out the potential clutch sourced vibration from something else. And I guess most owners with similar problems would like to know your dealers response.

Yes, it did vibrate from the start. It has gotten better over time and I hope that continues. I don't want to give the impression that the vibrations are unbearable, but a long day in the saddle (which I haven't done yet) would be tough to take at this point. I'll play with feathering the clutch and see what I can find out.

Had a run out to visit four local Yamaha workshops here in the UK back when roll_it _on first asked me for ideas. The couple that were still in business claimed no knowledge of any vibration issues. Turned out they had only sold one bike each when I found the Sales Managers. I went back to one of these later in the year and had very quick "unofficial test ride" on a brand new demo bike - about 250 miles on it. Asked the salesman who lent me the keys and had used the bike a few days earlier why it was not as refined as I (and he) expected for a twin with balancer shafts. Said I should go look on the forums - so that was loop complete very quickly.

I just dropped my bike off at the dealer about an hour ago for the 600 mile first service. This is (I think) the biggest Yamaha dealer in San Diego and they very rarely see these bikes. The service manager said they'd done basic service on a few Teneres and that's it. I didn't even mention the vibrations because I think asking those guys to diagnose something that subtle would be fruitless. Although I should probably have complained just to get it on the record in case it becomes a long-term problem. I'll make a point of doing that tomorrow.

Please try to come back and let us know more as you get to know it better. Proved the clutch damper redesign I performed is good in two independent bikes and on two continents. Still hungry for any information from "real world" users though. Such as good evidence that proved the clutch vibration there today was gone tomorrow - well perhaps in another few 000 miles.

Will do. Thanks for continuing to chase this problem down - it's a real service to the community.

 

[mcbrien]

I had a pleasant experience with realshelby modifying my clutch
basket . I've managed several 100 miles despite weather and
can notice an improvement . I understand there was still something
ealse he could of done to make it better but I'm not going to bother.

 

[sharealike]

Haven't reached the 1000k mark on mine yet and am aware of a rumbling vibration from about 2,800 - 3,500 revs but thought this was a big twin thing?

I'll mention it on its first service..........

The Suzuki's fixed with the sharealike re-engineered clutch baskets were all but one out of warranty. A - because the vibration was seldom ever there from new. And B - then typically two years or more where many owners dismissed it as just "a big V twin thing". And C - the dealers told everyone the same so even today, some ten years after Suzuki changed early baskets out under warranty (for the later design that was barely a fix if at all), there are still many Suzuki dealers who deny there is or ever was a problem. I believe them, even though at one point the numbers of stock replacement baskets shipped through them was close to ten per cent of the UK bikes on the road. The problem is that there is no tangible evidence of the fault other than putting a suspect basket in a known good engine and going for a ride. They simply don't do that so nothing to justify the cost of a new basket. Even the new 2014 VStrom will have the same basket that's been going wrong for ten years.

Hope the 2014 model is available soon for a test ride, seems like they tried to rectify the "known" issue.

.......and if it doesn't smooth out I'll see if they will swap it out for the 2014 clutch basket under warranty.

I wish you the best of luck but doubt enough information has got back to the dealers from customers. Never mind from the dealers to Yamaha for them to realise they have a problem. Which also makes the prospect of a revised basket for the 2014 bikes a little slim. And the chance a dealer will get support from Yamaha in the form of a replacement basket just as slim.
I might be wrong and will stand correction as I don't have the time to read back through the full thread. If I remember correctly the idea of a revised basket for 2014 is only speculation introduced by those and perpetuated by the same who tried to fix baskets and wish to offer an alternative to my service. Every Yamaha article I read points to planned changes in the shaft drive and rear hub area. Hard evidence of oil leaks on the rear tyre/tire, which no manufacturer can ignore for long, and low road speed dependent vibrations from the same area being blamed on tyre changes. Yamaha refer to the damper in the rear wheel hub as a clutch. Which it is not. Don't know why, but they do.

 

[snakebitten]

Not sure I know what you mean by "Hard evidence of oil leaks on the rear tire" & "low road speed dependent vibrations".

I've pretty much read every post on this board for 2 ½ years. (sad, isn't it) I'm confused now.

 

[sharealike]

Not sure I know what you mean by "Hard evidence of oil leaks on the rear tire" & "low road speed dependent vibrations".

I've pretty much read every post on this board for 2 ½ years. (sad, isn't it) I'm confused now.

Are you saying you missed any posts about "evidence of oil leaks on the rear tire" & "low road speed dependent vibrations"? To clarify these are not related to the clutch vibration issue.

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=10272.msg170277#msg170277 there are other cases reported. Plus that English guy (can't remember his name) who rode the length of America and back had this same leak. Claimed it was a rope caught round the rear hub caused it.

 

[snakebitten]

I just didn't get the connection. Sorry.

It's true that some of us have experienced oil sling on our rear tires. Especially the off-roaders.

And it's also true that sometimes its the result of a recent tire change and the melting of the grease that was applied to the spline.

It's true that gear lube can escape the vent during a spirited run over bumpy and corrugated terrain.

And it's true that the seal can fail at the pumpkin and result in fluid sling as well.

All this is true. I don't think Yamaha has denied it. Or even tried to defend it. I don't even think it's unexpected.

Maybe I'm missing your point. Or maybe you are NOT drawing a parallel between this and the clutch.

 

[sharealike]

Oil leaking with pictures are good hard evidence to the factory something is wrong. Shows what and where needs their attention. Plus they can't ignore it even if they don't have time or funds to look into it. The first owner who claims they slid off on an oil splattered tyre might have a strong case against someone.

On the other hand. Complaints of engine vibration by owners to their dealers and workshops probably never reach the factory. And where might the factory start to look if they did? Even if a suspect basket gets back to the factory they look and feel just like new. It's only by pooling owners experiences in this thread, my experimenting and simulating on the bench and two owners running the modification have we recently narrowed the cause down to being the damper in clutch basket. Very likely Yamaha don't even know about the dampers problems.

 

[snakebitten]

There are no secrets in this world anymore. None.

Yamaha knows everything we know. They know what we say too.

But that doesn't mean they are going to do anything because of what we are saying. That's a completely different critter.

The headlight harness complaints were similar. At the dealership level and the Yamaha Customer Service level we heard "First we ever heard of it"

But Yamaha did address it. Maybe not as fast as some wish. But it was addressed, fixed in production, and retrofitted on several warranty claims.

Impressive to me.

 

[EricV]

Which 9 guys with oil on the rear wheel are you referring to? All of whom have low mileage and may or may not have had minor assembly issues with a seal. Hardly a chronic issue, imho.

Lets stay on topic with the vibration and efforts to isolate the cause and correct it.

 

[snakebitten]

My Tenere is starting to get its feelings hurt. It thinks I'm trying too hard to find what's wrong with it.

 

[Koinz]

Which 9 guys with oil on the rear wheel are you referring to? All of whom have low mileage and may or may not have had minor assembly issues with a seal. Hardly a chronic issue, imho.

Lets stay on topic with the vibration and efforts to isolate the cause and correct it.

::026::

I also think Yamaha has been doing a great job at resolving any issues with the Beast.

 

[Mzee]

Don't Yamaha have some sort of intelligence that looks around on complaints about their products, for instance reading this forum. In a competitive world of trade and commerce; I would be surprised if they were sitting ducks. So to say that Yamaha might not have information on complaints about their products may not be entirely accurate.