Valve service suggestions

[avc8130]

Actually looking back I think it did. I remember thinking it made a bit more noise but then thinking it is just because I was lessening much harder than normal and it was all in my head. :
Also I normally ride with ear plugs and given that it sounded like a bucket of bolts from day one. . .
But it ran perfect for 55 miles. Then THUMP and nothing. . .

You're not helping. LOL

I'm debating whether I should go pull my tensioner or not. I imagine if it was riding on the cam chain it would have some pretty obvious wear marks by now.

I wonder if I could see from the bottom with one of those camera scope things?
ac

 

[Dallara]

You're not helping. LOL

I'm debating whether I should go pull my tensioner or not. I imagine if it was riding on the cam chain it would have some pretty obvious wear marks by now.

I wonder if I could see from the bottom with one of those camera scope things?
ac

Now see...

More and more I think I'm gonna' maybe continue to skip the valve check. It's a ton of time, work, and apparently frustration. And here it's beginning to sound like there's a risk you can get it all wrong even if you're fastidiously careful... And you may be like AC and worried like hell every time you start the bike up! ::025::

OTOH, if you skip the valve check the worst thing that'll happen is a valve will tighten up to the point you burn a seat or the bike gets really hard to start when it's hot. But you've saved all that time and effort (and worry) doing it yourself, or money if you pay a tech to do it. And if a tech does it seems you'd still have the worry, wondering if he did it all *right*. ::025::

If the worst happens and you do burn a valve seat then you've got to pull the motor to pull the head, so you do the valves then, right? With the motor out of the frame when it's easy.

Just a thought... And didn't Nick Sanders go over 52,000 miles without a valve check on his? O

What was that noise, AC? No, that one? And that other one, too?

Dallara



~

 

[jaeger22]

I'm debating whether I should go pull my tensioner or not. I imagine if it was riding on the cam chain it would have some pretty obvious wear marks by now.

If you are worried and want to check, just pull the clutch cover. If it is eating the tensioner the shavings will stick to the cam shaft sensor and you will see this:

You may also be able to get down low and look up the cam chain to see how it aligns but I didn't actually try it. If you have the problem I had, you will for sure be able to see it with the cover off and you would have to do that anyway if you pull the tensioner.

 

[jaeger22]

More and more I think I'm gonna' maybe continue to skip the valve check. It's a ton of time, work, and apparently frustration. And here it's beginning to sound like there's a risk you can get it all wrong even if you're fastidiously careful... And you may be like AC and worried like hell every time you start the bike up!

You make a good point and it is a risk either way. You have to weigh the risks. Personally I want to KNOW that my valves are right as much as possible or I would be thinking about it the other way, wondering as I was riding 2000 miles from home, if my exhaust valves were slowly burning up. In my case one exhaust valve was WAY tight. I expect it would have gone a fair ways before any major trouble but I did 27,700 miles in the first year so there is a good chance that it would not have taken too long before I had a real problem.

If the worst happens and you do burn a valve seat then you've got to pull the motor to pull the head, so you do the valves then, right? With the motor out of the frame when it's easy

Maybe not. Page 5-31 of the US manual talks about checking the valve seats. "Pitting/ Ware - REPLACE THE HEAD" Valve seat width out of spec-- REPLACE THE HEAD".

Everyone gets to pick their own risk here and there may be no universally right or wrong answers but personally I will be doing the adjustment. Call me chicken!

 

[Dallara]

You make a good point and it is a risk either way. You have to weigh the risks. Personally I want to KNOW that my valves are right as much as possible or I would be thinking about it the other way, wondering as I was riding 2000 miles from home, if my exhaust valves were slowly burning up. In my case one exhaust valve was WAY tight. I expect it would have gone a fair ways before any major trouble but I did 27,700 miles in the first year so there is a good chance that it would not have taken too long before I had a real problem.
Maybe not. Page 5-31 of the US manual talks about checking the valve seats. "Pitting/ Ware - REPLACE THE HEAD" Valve seat width out of spec-- REPLACE THE HEAD".

Everyone gets to pick their own risk here and there may be no universally right or wrong answers but personally I will be doing the adjustment. Call me chicken!

Well, doing a quick check of the price for a cylinder head (part number 23P-11101-09-00) around the net it seems the going price is only around $650, so it wouldn't exactly be the end of the world if one had to replace it. I don't how much you've got wrapped up in your repair, Jaeger, but it sure has been a ton of work, especially since you had to do a bunch of it twice.

Understand, I want to thank you for being the front guy for all this... As with so many things the first guy out there gets all the arrows in him. Sincerely, I applaud your efforts and honesty about your trials and tribulations.

And you're right... Just like with riding motorcycles in general, it's all about managing risk, and we call have different approaches to that.

Thanks! ::008::

Dallara



~

 

[avc8130]

If you are worried and want to check, just pull the clutch cover. If it is eating the tensioner the shavings will stick to the cam shaft sensor and you will see this:

You may also be able to get down low and look up the cam chain to see how it aligns but I didn't actually try it. If you have the problem I had, you will for sure be able to see it with the cover off and you would have to do that anyway if you pull the tensioner.

I realized that as I was ripping the wife's Speed Triple over to a buddy's to borrow the camera scope. I pulled the inspection plug and that gives a clear view of the sensor. No shavings I can see. I'm going to run a cotton swab over it to make sure. I also used the scope to see up as far as I could. It looks like the chain is in the guide as far as I can see.

I'm beginning to believe I am just going nuts because of your experience.

I still don't think I would skip the 26k check/adjust. I think I would just approach it differently. I would do 1 of the following:

a. Pay someone. Pick a dealer or shop with a good reputation. I know where I would go in NJ. This is like healthcare for your motorcycle. In my family we have a saying "good healthcare is worth driving for".
b. Pull the motor. With the motor out I would have no worries. All of the reasons this adjustment is more difficult than most is because the motor is in the frame and everything is hidden.

ac

 

[jaeger22]

I'm beginning to believe I am just going nuts because of your experience.

Sorry about that! :-[ It sounds like you are good to go. ::012::
If you get passed the first 100 miles you will know for sure and can quit worrying about it! ::008::
Time to ::021:: LOL!

 

[jaeger22]

Well, doing a quick check of the price for a cylinder head (part number 23P-11101-09-00) around the net it seems the going price is only around $650, so it wouldn't exactly be the end of the world if one had to replace it.

That is less than I would have thought. But as I am sure you know there are a number of other parts needed like head and base gaskets, and new cylinder bolts to name a few. The cylinder bolts alone were right at $100 and you are not supposed to re-use the old ones due to the fact that they get stretched when you torque them down. I would SWAG the cost at around $850. You also need a couple of special tools but I made mine so I don't know what they would cost.

I don't how much you've got wrapped up in your repair, Jaeger, but it sure has been a ton of work, especially since you had to do a bunch of it twice.

Too true! It would actually have been kind of fun if it was a typical project bike and not a bike I needed so much. I was in a bit of a panic to get all back together and get enough miles on it in time for my next trip West. All is well now and I head for the West next Saturday. Last time this year before winter shuts me down.

Understand, I want to thank you for being the front guy for all this... As with so many things the first guy out there gets all the arrows in him. Sincerely, I applaud your efforts and honesty about your trials and tribulations.

Thanks so much for the kind words! I just hope I can help prevent others from repeating my dumb mistake! The support and tips I got from this site was just OUTSTANDING! ::008::

 

[avc8130]

Of course I go outside to check the pickup sensor with a q-tip, and I find...nothing. So I figure, start the bike, shoot a video.



In person I am starting to think it sounds "normal". I'm pretty sure I am paranoid.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Went out for another "test ride". Probably made it another 30-40 miles. Still runs!

ac

 

[RED CAT]

Sounds pretty normal to me.

 

[jaeger22]

Yep, sounds like a bucket of loose bolts. . . . Normal! LOL

 

[Koinz]

I wonder if you guys who made adjustments notice if the engine runs better in any way. Technically, a slight change in valve timing occurs so timing is slightly retarded. Seems to make a difference on the BMW boxers when the valves are setup correctly. :question:

 

[jaeger22]

None that I could detect. Just a guess on my part but I not think I would be able to notice unless it was a large change.

 

[avc8130]

I wonder if you guys who made adjustments notice if the engine runs better in any way. Technically, a slight change in valve timing occurs so timing is slightly retarded. Seems to make a difference on the BMW boxers when the valves are setup correctly. :question:

Valve lift is also reduced.

I'm not going to lie, my bike feels "flatter" than I recall from Thursday before I started this ordeal.

ac

 

[greg the pole]

you guys worry me.
I took the bike for a good 40 km rip before putting it away. I did sync the t.b's while the tank was up (thanks Red Cat for the sync tool).
It's a new bike. No lurching, hesitating, and generally riding shitty. my last TB sync must have been off by about a mile.

No need for the bike this weekend, slid across an intersection on my way to the airport. Guess I should have taken the summer tires off.

As a side note, after re-setting the cam chain tensioner, I felt up : the motor, as far as I could go to make sure the chain was in the guides. Looked, and felt good.

Oh, Rigid E series 6 inch bar, Skeena dimmer, and 3 way switch is wired up. Pretty sweet set up. Will blog tomorrow, after I visit motorcycle mecca....IRON PONY!!!

 

[avc8130]

you guys worry me.
I took the bike for a good 40 km rip before putting it away. I did sync the t.b's while the tank was up (thanks Red Cat for the sync tool).
It's a new bike. No lurching, hesitating, and generally riding shitty. my last TB sync must have been off by about a mile.

No need for the bike this weekend, slid across an intersection on my way to the airport. Guess I should have taken the summer tires off.

As a side note, after re-setting the cam chain tensioner, I felt up : the motor, as far as I could go to make sure the chain was in the guides. Looked, and felt good.

Oh, Rigid E series 6 inch bar, Skeena dimmer, and 3 way switch is wired up. Pretty sweet set up. Will blog tomorrow, after I visit motorcycle mecca....IRON PONY!!!

I sync'd my TBs with a Vacuummate also at the same time as the valve adjustment. I hadn't done it for 20k+ miles. WOW. The bike does run MUCH smoother. The sync was WAY off.

If we didn't have Jaeger's pioneering and subsequently rough experience, do you think we would be so worried?

ac

 

[greg the pole]

Yeah, I hear you

 

[fredz43]

I still don't think I would skip the 26k check/adjust. I think I would just approach it differently. I would do 1 of the following:

a. Pay someone. Pick a dealer or shop with a good reputation. I know where I would go in NJ. This is like healthcare for your motorcycle. In my family we have a saying "good healthcare is worth driving for".
b. Pull the motor. With the motor out I would have no worries. All of the reasons this adjustment is more difficult than most is because the motor is in the frame and everything is hidden.

ac

Thanks for the recommendations. I chose option a. Took it to my local dealer, Niehaus Cycles this week, at just under 29,000 miles. Turns out the exhaust valves were all in spec, but 2 of my intakes were loose. Spec is .0039-.0063 in. One of mine was at .007 in and one was way out at .010 in. All were set to .005 in. As far as difference in running, I swear I could tell the difference in sound when I started it. Took a 100 mile test run and I firmly believe that it never ran this well. It would seem that with excessive clearance on the intakes, they weren't going quite all the way open and now with proper clearance, they are. In any case, I am extremely happy with the result and with the very reasonable charge of only 4 hours labor. BTW, I have the Gen 2 flash and in combination with my first class suspension, this bike is fooking incredible and I am enjoying it more every day.

 

[greg the pole]

how much did the mechanic charge you for the work?
just curious