Valve service suggestions

snakebitten

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Dirt_Dad said:
You people just keep reinforcing the idea that I am not going to do this myself.

Here's a question, while I'm having the tech do the inspection, is that a good time to get the slapping sound (valve chain guide) corrected? Do I need to have them order parts in advance for that?
Are you talking about the momentary cam chain rattle at startup?

If so, this is how it was explained to me...........

The hydraulic tensioner needs oil pressure to assist it in applying the proper tension. As a result, there can be some rattling until that pressure is reached.
Add to that, the tensioning mechanism itself has a plunger-piston that has teeth on it that assist it in staying "close" to the desired position. In other words, as wear takes place in the chain and it requires are further "throw" of the tensioner piston, there are times where the plunger will extend past the next tooth. As a result, when the bike is not running and oil pressure is reduced, the plunger does not return as far back into its bore because the most recent tooth now catches and serves as a stop. Think of it like a ratcheting tie down wheel on your boat trailer.

Because of the amount of throw associated with each toothed segment on the plunger, there are times when there is very little difference in plunger position when there is oil pressure and when there isn't. On the other hand, as the wear causes the plunger to extend to the furthest distance just short of the next tooth, the distance between extension under pressure and no pressure is increased. So, sometimes we have less rattle at startup. Some times we have more.

I would be far more concerned if there was a sudden increase in the length of time for the rattle to go away. If it seemed like it was taking too long to oil-up.

I notice if I ride everyday, I get less rattle time. Sometimes none at all. I suspect that just means it takes some time for the tensioner to oil-down.

I remember seeing a diagram somewhere showing the oil paths of the Tenere. The cam chain is at the top and the end of the line. Basically the last place to get pressure.
 

RED CAT

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Actually there are no teeth on the cam chain tensioner but threads like a bolt. It can move in and out as it rides on the cam chain. So it should be at the optimum tension at all times.
 

avc8130

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RED CAT said:
Actually there are no teeth on the cam chain tensioner but threads like a bolt. It can move in and out as it rides on the cam chain. So it should be at the optimum tension at all times.
Only when there is oil pressure to dampen the spring response.

It is a mini spring-damper system.

ac
 

Dirt_Dad

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Thanks, Snake. And yes, it's exactly what I'm talking about.

What I'm not clear about is...do I need to ever do anything about that brief slapping sound? Valve check seems like a good time it something is needed, but if nothing needed I'm happy to let it slap away.
 

avc8130

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Dirt_Dad said:
Thanks, Snake. And yes, it's exactly what I'm talking about.

What I'm not clear about is...do I need to ever do anything about that brief slapping sound? Valve check seems like a good time it something is needed, but if nothing needed I'm happy to let it slap away.
As long as we are talking about the extra clatter at startup, I don't really think there is anything you COULD do for it.

What oil do you run? When it gets colder out, switching to a 5W from a 15W would make a difference.

ac
 

dcstrom

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avc8130 said:
As long as we are talking about the extra clatter at startup, I don't really think there is anything you COULD do for it.

What oil do you run? When it gets colder out, switching to a 5W from a 15W would make a difference.

ac
It's annoying for sure, and the fact that the noise seems to last longer on startup as the milage builds, makes me think there must be some wear going on. So the question becomes, when is a little bit of wear too much? I guess the service manual must specify tolerances, so I would think that would be your best guide Dirt_Dad. HOWEVER, if the tensioner is anywhere even slightly worn at the time you're doing a valve adjust, it would seem to make sense to replace it at that time.

I just changed from 10w-40 Motul semi-synth to Yamalube 15w-50 full synth, doesn't make any difference to the startup chain clatter.
 

Dirt_Dad

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I just use ordinary Yamalube or Honda 10W-40 dino oil. I'm only a couple of thousand miles short of the 26K mile mark. As I mentioned, this thread has killed my interest in attempting a valve check. I did multiple adjustments on the big strom, and checks on the little strom, but can't say I enjoyed it. I'm happy to farm this one out. I know the tech (TJ) at Romney has done a bunch of them. I'll ask TJ about the issue to see he suggests.
 

greg the pole

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Wear? on this motor...doubt it.
If anyone has seen the article about Nick Sanders and his engine look in, the thing look mint at 50 thousand miles, except for the carbon build up from running shitty gas.

And that's all the guy did.
Ride it, put in gas, ride some more, sleep at a set of lights, ride again..
 

Dirt_Dad

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avc8130 said:
Interesting video explaining cam chain tensioners:
Interesting video. I have a better understanding of how it works now. I think I understand now why the bikes have to sit for a while before the noise comes back. I'm guessing since our slapping noise goes away in a few seconds there is no more concern after that? It still makes me wonder if over a long term, the few seconds of slapping could eventually shorten the overall life. I'm going to assume the expected life of the chain is far longer than any of us (even Sail2xxs) is going to ride a bike, so probably not a issue.
 

snakebitten

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I see now that the "teeth" mechanism (ratchet) that I referred to is not applicable to our newer hydraulic tensioner in the Tenere.
I hadn't seen photos of the style we have before.

Makes sense.

I still think as long as the cam chain rattle is only noticeable at startup AND goes away very quickly, then not much to be concerned with.
But I personally would replace mine if I sensed it changed behavior appreciably.
 

num

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slappy valves are happy valves.

I know a few bikes that do that at startup but then it goes away before you can even get it in gear.
::021::
 

Z06

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Tackled the valve clearance check today. Removed the front engine mount plate and took the valve cover out the front. Seemed much easier than removing the wire harness. Came out without too much grief. All intakes in middle of range. Two exhaust valves too tight and other two at limit on tight side. Pulled exhaust cam and all 4 had same thickness shims. Ordered 4 correct ones. A whole shim kit would not have done any good for me as I needed 4 of same size.
Also have seen comments about positioning lobes straight up and checking clearance. Won't work on exhaust side as decompression pins are holding two of the valves slightly open at this position.
 

scudrunner

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Z06 said:
Tackled the valve clearance check today. Removed the front engine mount plate and took the valve cover out the front. Seemed much easier than removing the wire harness. Came out without too much grief. All intakes in middle of range. Two exhaust valves too tight and other two at limit on tight side. Pulled exhaust cam and all 4 had same thickness shims. Ordered 4 correct ones. A whole shim kit would not have done any good for me as I needed 4 of same size.
Also have seen comments about positioning lobes straight up and checking clearance. Won't work on exhaust side as decompression pins are holding two of the valves slightly open at this position.

Thanks for the input. Would you say one days work is reasonable for a competent mechanic?
 

Z06

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scudrunner said:
Thanks for the input. Would you say one days work is reasonable for a competent mechanic?
And have time for a beer or two before the sun goes down.
 

avc8130

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scudrunner said:
Thanks for the input. Would you say one days work is reasonable for a competent mechanic?
Certainly. If you need a hand let me know when and I'll ride up if there isn't too much snow/ice on the ground.

ac
 

scudrunner

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avc8130 said:
Certainly. If you need a hand let me know when and I'll ride up if there isn't too much snow/ice on the ground.

ac

Sweet!! Should be a fun winter project. I'm actually in the middle of totally renovating my garage at the moment. Insulation, drywall, floors.....
 

avc8130

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scudrunner said:
Sweet!! Should be a fun winter project. I'm actually in the middle of totally renovating my garage at the moment. Insulation, drywall, floors.....
Wow, you've been busy since I was there picking up the WR!

Any plans for some heat out there?

ac
 

scudrunner

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avc8130 said:
Wow, you've been busy since I was there picking up the WR!

Any plans for some heat out there?

ac
You won't even recognize the jumbled mess that it was. Yes I've had a kerosine heater in it for years. Worked surprisingly well considering it was uninsulated.
 

avc8130

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scudrunner said:
You won't even recognize the jumbled mess that it was. Yes I've had a kerosine heater in it for years. Worked surprisingly well considering it was uninsulated.
Don't go doing anything rash and trying to "make space". There is plenty of space in that garage for the bikes and that sweet ride to live together.

ac
 
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