Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

[JHKolb]

I still would have bought the Tenere. I either need to switch to decafe or have some other medical issue because, when I get off the tenere, I still feel blown away by its performance and everything this bike can do. When I test rode a Bmw GS, I didn't get that wow feeling.

That's how I felt after riding the Ducati BUT the extra $7000 in the price plus the cost of dealer service and some 1st run computer issues the Super Tenere was really the best choice.

Where pure street performance is compared the Ducati is unbeatable, just an awesome ride but the cost of ownership is jut sway too much.

 

[Bill310]

I bought the Tenere because I have owned 4 BMW's, and one Honda Goldwing (100,000 miles zero issues) Once I started to compare my wife's FJR or my Wing's service costs to any BMW we had owned the decision was easy.

I bought my Tenere via the PDP because I was concerned that some one in Yamaha marketing, perhaps even the OP would decide that the prices should be in line and people would pay more for Yamaha reliability. That idea will fail and likely have disasterous results so I wanted to get one while I could.
Yamaha is not any more immune to stupidity and greed than any other company, i.e. The Automatic FJR - great idea, poor execution and bad press launch. That product could have filled a specific need and been marketed as doing that. Overestimating the riding skills of the motorcycle press is a common mistake. That is too bad because the people I know with right hand, arm and wrist issues cherish their clutch less FJR's. I rode one and it was fine, but there were certain riding techniques needed at slow speeds and Yamaha should have taught staff how to ride them and had thse people teach the customers .

 

[tc9988]

I bought the Tenere because I have owned 4 BMW's, and one Honda Goldwing (100,000 miles zero issues) Once I started to compare my wife's FJR or my Wing's service costs to any BMW we had owned the decision was easy.

I bought my Tenere via the PDP because I was concerned that some one in Yamaha marketing, perhaps even the OP would decide that the prices should be in line and people would pay more for Yamaha reliability. That idea will fail and likely have disasterous results so I wanted to get one while I could.
Yamaha is not any more immune to stupidity and greed than any other company, i.e. The Automatic FJR - great idea, poor execution and bad press launch. That product could have filled a specific need and been marketed as doing that. Overestimating the riding skills of the motorcycle press is a common mistake. That is too bad because the people I know with right hand, arm and wrist issues cherish their clutch less FJR's. I rode one and it was fine, but there were certain riding techniques needed at slow speeds and Yamaha should have taught staff how to ride them and had thse people teach the customers .

The marketing test has already started. The few motorcycles that YUSA are now making available non PDP are $14500MSRP, a $600 increase from the PDP MSRP. I expect all these non PDP units will sell easily at the new MSRP and would not be surprised to see another MSRP increase in the next order period when that is announced.

 

[EricV]

It's really quite simple. Are you going to ride the bike, or park it at the dealer and wait for service/repairs to be done?

BMW thoughtfully puts a service light on their bikes to remind you when to have the oil changed. No, not when to change the oil, when you will bring it to the dealer to have it done. Because w/o a $400 tool, that light can't be turned off. This is not a problem for most BMW owners. Because they don't work on their bikes, and most don't ride enough for the additional expense to be a factor.

Like the guy telling me he only goes thru one set of tires a year, so buying a fresh set each spring isn't a problem. Hey, it works for him, so great. To me, that's amazing. Naturally, his tires only lasting 3500 miles is also not a problem.

Is having your bike at the dealer waiting for parts and repairs on a regular basis a problem? Is having your bike towed to the dealership in a different state than where it broke down, (because there are NO dealers in that state), a problem?

Give me three reasons you think buying the GS is a reasonable thing. I'll be happy to educate you why that's not true.

Buy the GS if you want a VERY nice, feature rich bike so it can sit in your garage. Sweet, smooth motor. Nice ergos, great handling and a lot of fun to ride. Like the S10, it's a BIG trailie, but it doesn't live up to the marketing hype when it comes to reliability IF you actually ride it.

So, do you want a nice looking, cool adventure bike for the times you can get out on a nice day to ride? Or do you want a nice looking, cool adventure bike to actually have adventure rides on? If the latter, buy the Super Tenere. If the former, buy what ever you think will look good in the garage or parked in front of the coffee shop. The S10 isn't perfect, but you don't have to carry a list of the dealers in your pocket either.

 

[DukeTen]

Absolutely! While I've never ridden a GS (and believe it's a very good bike), frequent and costly maintenance are words that do not mix with motorcycles in my vocabulary. I've owned Yamahas (my favorites), a Kawasaki, a Honda and a Suzuki in the past. In all cases you only worry about fuel, oil changes, chain adjustments and valve adjustments (once in a very long while). Most of the maintenance can be done by the owner without major mechanical skills required.

My ST has about 800 miles and every time I start it it feels better than the previous ride, and puts a smile on my face. To top it off, IMHO, it looks WAY better than the GS.

It's an easy question to answer if you want a very cool bike to ride pretty much anywhere, have a lot of fun and save time and money for accessories and mods ;D

 

[markjenn]

I believe Yamaha builds a more reliable bike than BMW, but I don't know why some Yamaha riders feel it necessary to characterize BMW riders as ignorant simpletons who do nothing but ride to Starbucks and take their bikes in for repairs. It's a huge disservice to the hundreds of thousands of riders who sucessfully ride their BMWs all over the world. I know tens of BMW riders who have gotten great service from the brand and have been on tours where tens of BMWs have been thrashed within an inch of their life without the slightest problem.

And believe me, Yamaha has had some major problems with their motorcycles over the years. FJR valve and wiring issues, GTS ABS problems, starter clutch issues on a variety of models, etc. And some absolute clunkers of bikes.

Stereotyping is rampant on this board.

- Mark

 

[Bundu]

I believe Yamaha builds a more reliable bike than BMW, but I don't know why some Yamaha riders feel it necessary to characterize BMW riders as ignorant simpletons who do nothing but ride to Starbucks and take their bikes in for repairs. It's a huge disservice to the hundreds of thousands of riders who sucessfully ride their BMWs all over the world. I know tens of BMW riders who have gotten great service from the brand and have been on tours where tens of BMWs have been thrashed within an inch of their life without the slightest problem.

And believe me, Yamaha has had some major problems with their motorcycles over the years. FJR valve and wiring issues, GTS ABS problems, starter clutch issues on a variety of models, etc. And some absolute clunkers of bikes.

Stereotyping is rampant on this board.

- Mark

+1 thanks for that!
I'm rather going to spend my time to figure out how to get rid of the yamaha imposed power restrictions in 2/3rd gears and if I can't, I'll take a look at the 2012 GS - live and learn

 

[GrahamD]

Mark, I see your point but..

Up to about 2004, I would say that the average BMW rider was categorized as someone who toured a lot, had a bit of a passion for bikes and knew that they wanted.

After then I think the "lifestyle" thing became a bit of a deciding factor, coupled with the fact that the R1200GS in particular started falling to bits on a more than acceptable (by those standards applied to Japanese bikes) rate, probably before then.

BMW became the recall king, for a year or two at least, so things have shifted a bit. I WAS looking at buying a BMW GS until just too many people I knew had issues (R series again).
I checked on line thinking it may have been a "cluster" and I found out it was more of a "cluster fuck" and I decided it was a bit of a lottery.

The fact that it almost emulates HD as a "lifestyle" thing I think is interesting.

Rich Boomers ride Harleys more often than not now who want the "Rebel without a cause" look.
I think the same has happened to the GS. Except they want the latest lifestyle fad. Rebels are just so 90's. Adventure is the New Black.

I am sure 90% of those that actually ride and maintain their bikes probably do OK, but for the money we pay where I live it would want to be better than the Japanese by 40% not Worse by 40%.

I don't like being ripped off that bad and noting about a BMW is so special, especially now, that I feel I need to do without a few trips just to pay their price.

There has also been plenty of shit leveled at the S10, if you look around, and the VFR and Metric Cruisers and Stroms.

I'm not going to give BMW any dispensations because they are BMW. If they want to pump stuff like "best motorcycle in the world" in their ads and charge accordingly they damn well better be.

They are not. They are just another Brand that has bad QA ATM and Major Chinese parts in some bikes. They are not what they used to be.

In fact the S10 appeals because it is what BMW used to be. A refined, reliable, capable solid motorcycle. The fact that it doesn't win drag races is so far down my list of priorities I can't really see it anymore. The eyes aren't what they used to be.

Exactly what I didn't buy when I was younger. ::024::

 

[EricV]

I believe Yamaha builds a more reliable bike than BMW, but I don't know why some Yamaha riders feel it necessary to characterize BMW riders as ignorant simpletons who do nothing but ride to Starbucks and take their bikes in for repairs. It's a huge disservice to the hundreds of thousands of riders who sucessfully ride their BMWs all over the world. I know tens of BMW riders who have gotten great service from the brand and have been on tours where tens of BMWs have been thrashed within an inch of their life without the slightest problem.

And believe me, Yamaha has had some major problems with their motorcycles over the years. FJR valve and wiring issues, GTS ABS problems, starter clutch issues on a variety of models, etc. And some absolute clunkers of bikes.

Stereotyping is rampant on this board.

- Mark

"tens of BMWs" Well Mark, I have a BMW in the garage. It's not mine, but the SOs. I truly hate working on it. It's the most poorly designed bike I've ever encountered. It has some gems, but those weren't made by BMW. I have to work on it, because BMW hasn't bothered to correct the problems or even come out with suggested fixes. If you press them, they will admit to knowing about the problems & show you the Puma letters, (service bulletins).

Disservice? I think not. Education is more apt. Yamaha is far from perfect, but at least they don't refuse to admit there are problems. BMW has become a boutique brand. I know a lot of BMW riders that have put on a lot of miles. What I also know is that not one of them has done so w/o major catastrophic failures and multiple repairs of items that virtually never break on other brands.

 

[GrahamD]

"tens of BMWs" Well Mark, I have a BMW in the garage. It's not mine, but the SOs.

Well that makes 3 out 4 people I know with BMW's and 1 for you. So there must be 5 or so others out there some where ::024::

 

[EricV]

+1 thanks for that!
I'm rather going to spend my time to figure out how to get rid of the yamaha imposed power restrictions in 2/3rd gears and if I can't, I'll take a look at the 2012 GS - live and learn

Bundu - I'm Curious, what makes you feel the 2/3rd gear power restrictions impact your riding style? And how do you know the GS doesn't have a similar feature? There is a mod available, (not cheap), that removes the Yamaha 2/3 power restrictions. Re-mapped ECU. IIRC, the restrictions are only in place up to 3k rpms.

 

[RMac]

I think he has too many long straights and/or likes to gun it on upward inclines down there in Sarf Africa. That's when the somewhat over done 1st and 2nd restriction is felt most in my opinion.

 

[switchback]

Stereotyping is rampant on this board.

I find it interesting after all the waiting we finally have our bikes and we spend all this time writing about BMWs. What is the point?

 

[GrahamD]

What is the point?

Dunno? Maybe it's like some of the Strom forums. Someone comes along with a good bike and everyone sneers, then they get a bit pissed about it and vent.

Or maybe it's what you do when you can;t ride.

 

[Bundu]

Bundu - I'm Curious, what makes you feel the 2/3rd gear power restrictions impact your riding style? And how do you know the GS doesn't have a similar feature? There is a mod available, (not cheap), that removes the Yamaha 2/3 power restrictions. Re-mapped ECU. IIRC, the restrictions are only in place up to 3k rpms.

I love gunning the bike on pull away and straights and I can VERY CLEARLY feel the surge I get in 2nd and 3rd when I exceed 5500RPM - in 4th+ the bike pulls very well and I'm happy with it there - my bike is stock as far as engine/exhaust are concerned.
From the graphs below one can see the 2nd is most restricted...
I have ridden 1200GS, 1200GSA and HP2 on various occasions and have not felt that pronounced a dip in power. I have also searched the web for info on BMW restrictions in lower gears and have not found anything...
The S10 restrictions are not a problem off road, but I do about 70/30 tar and that's where it irritates me.
I will definitely get my ECU 'fixed' as soon as the mod comes to SA

 

[Bundu]

I think he has too many long straights and/or likes to gun it on upward inclines down there in Sarf Africa. That's when the somewhat over done 1st and 2nd restriction is felt most in my opinion.

::008:: exactly - see the graphs in my previous post

 

[EricV]

I love gunning the bike on pull away and straights and I can VERY CLEARLY feel the surge I get in 2nd and 3rd when I exceed 5500RPM - in 4th+ the bike pulls very well and I'm happy with it there - my bike is stock as far as engine/exhaust are concerned.
From the graphs below one can see the 2nd is most restricted...
I have ridden 1200GS, 1200GSA and HP2 on various occasions and have not felt that pronounced a dip in power. I have also searched the web for info on BMW restrictions in lower gears and have not found anything...
The S10 restrictions are not a problem off road, but I do about 70/30 tar and that's where it irritates me.
I will definitely get my ECU 'fixed' as soon as the mod comes to SA

Thanks for that well stated explanation Bundu. ::008:: Not sure I'd compare the HP2 to any mere mortal street bike though. For me, 2nd gear is a way to get to third, which is a way to get to 4th.. unless I'm off road and playing, in which case I'm not at a skill level where flogging it thru that rpm range is advisable!

 

[Rasher]

This sort of stuff bugs the hell out of me, I want to decide how much power I receive using the throttle, and in the case of this bike it has TC anyway, so why ruin it like this?

I like to leave the UK and head to the Alps, a place where your often using 2nd (and 1st) gear regularly on bends, this WILL be very noticeable and extremely annoying in these circumstances, especially two-up and uphill.

My GS pulls happily in all gears from low down, and this "feature" of the ST is possibly enough to put me pff buying one, I will have to get a good long demo and see how noticeable the dip is, because if it is at all notieceable on British roads it will be awful on Alpine switchbacks.

 

[RMac]

Unfortunately, it will be most noticeable for the scenario you describe. Two up, lot of 1st and 2nd gear usage. Cmon Yamaha. Admit it, you overdid it it, didn't you? Don't you owe us a street legal firmware upgrade?

 

[markjenn]

They'd be back to square one with respect to emissions certification if they eliminated this "feature" so I wouldn't hold out high hopes for an upgrade from Yamaha.

- Mark