Vibration question

[Yamaguy55]

Glad you are happy with your bike as that is a good thing. Not much help with regards to the discussion here however and if everyone took your advise to just ride more and worry less over the last 50 years you would never have the bike you are riding today with all of the refinements you are enjoying. I sure hope John (sharealike) decides to post his video he sent me regarding what he is fixing on the clutch basket. It is very well done and shows what does wrong and creates the increased vibrations. He is reluctant based on the beatings he has taken from forum members in the past who seem to come out of the woodwork when somebody suggests their precious motorcycle may have a design that can be improved upon.

I'm with you. Just because it doesn't bother someone else doesn't mean it doesn't bother me. I don't ridicule their happiness, they shouldn't ignore the fact some have problems that ignoring won't resolve. Since there seems to be such a wide difference of experiences here, I'd think giving the others with different results the benefit of the doubt would be SOP. Apparently not. A lot of things that physically bother me now didn't bother me when I was 35, or 45. They do now. Starting to sound like our government around here. (not a compliment, nor was it intended to be)


Agree with all but the vibration (number 2) at the discussed engine speeds is not only quite annoying, my clutch has never been particularly good in any regard, even with multiple bleeds and checks.
1. No headlight harness burn.-mine's fine
2. No excess vibes or "harshness" whatever that means. It means that whatever it is doing, gets your attention in a less than desirable way. It has my attention. It shouldn't. My John Deere is smoother.
3. No hard start problems.- Always starts right up.
4. No fuel leaking out the overflow tube problems. -Only when I overfill it.
5. No spoke loosening problems. -I don't rock bash or overload the bike. I also understand wire wheels and always check spokes. Same for my WR250R. It doesn't have problems either. I do rock bash it.
6. No buffeting problems with stock shield.- some, but we're all shaped different.
7. No monkey butt from the seat. -Very likely the best stock seat I've been on since the early 90s. Sure beats my WR250R. Most planks do.
8. No back pain or pain in shoulders from the stock bars. No, but they didn't really fit me, so I changed them.
9. No high oil consumption problems. No oil consumption at all. None of my vehicles noticeably consume oil, with the exception of the Craftsman lawn mower.
10. No high fuel consumption problems. I regularly see 46-47 MPH avg. on the dash. ( I know it's Imperial gallons, but still not excessive)
11. No final drive seal leaks. No leaks anywhere. No Yamaha I've owned in years has been a leaker.
12. No fork seal leaks. I clean my bike frequently, and seldom do mud with anything.
13. No excess heat from the radiator burning my left knee problems. I get more heat from my car than the Tenere.

Again, we're happy that others are happy. It doesn't mean there are no legitimate complaints.
Just sayin'.

 

[rotortech71]

"It's a MOTOR folks"

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm all good now. :

 

[Yamaguy55]

"It's a MOTOR folks"

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm all good now. :

"That's not sarcasm, its a speech impediment"............. > Sorry, couldn't resist.

Like I said in the previous post: we're turning into a copy of our government: If it doesn't bother me, you should shut up and agree.

I guess what bites my a$$ about this (perceived) attitude is that the vast majority here really really really (ad infinitum) like our Teneres. I really really like mine, with a few glaring exceptions. It isn't perfect, what is? But the vibration discussion here is the one thing that will make me sell mine if I can't resolve or diminish it. My hands go numb soon enough and thoroughly enough that I can't feel the brake lever. Not a good concept. And mine is getting worse, not better.

The weight is what it is. The comfort is excellent. The power is adequate, but really top notch for two up riding, which is part of the reason I bought it to begin with. The handling stock, even with real or imagined flaws, is still better than most other bikes for the area where I live and ride. The clutch isn't now nor ever has been what I call great: it drags enough that I am aware of it and deal with it. (Bled multiple times, Synth oil, so that's not it. WR is fine same oil) So if the assembly is wobbling/surging on the cush drive springs, that certainly could contribute to my problems. If I get this resolved, I'll get the Gen2 reflash and shut up.

There: my $50,000,000 worth.

 

[snakebitten]

No offense, but until someone claims there is a fix, then it really doesn't matter that there are such varying opinions of whether there is even a problem or not.

Think about it.

I never really felt the OEM ECU was that bad. Certainly not "a problem"
But the Gen2 Flash took the number of folks that were thrilled with it to critical mass. So. I jumped on board. And yea, it FIXED something I was otherwise not unhappy with.

So post up when there is a fix. I suspect if that happens, it too will become another fantastic improvement that the guys who are currently less unhappy with the clutch, will suddenly change their tune.

Ignorance is Bliss. I'm just saying.

 

[~TABASCO~]

I've been reading quite a bit and this clutch basket does sound like what is going on. If you Google it there are many bikes with similar issues and forums that have come across there own fixes.... There are some You -Tube videos of some of this stuff to I can post up. I think its from the same guy that is offering to fix our basket (or knows how to fix it).. There is a large write up on the v-strom web site. Not sure if this is true but people on that site where suggesting that his fix was $350-$400 for the VS1000. I've started to poke around to see if we might be able to take care of this 3000 buzz that I have. I'm sure with the brain trust we have on this forum we can come up with something to fix this for the folks that know they have the "buzz".... Lets stay on a positive note and see if we can get some ideas out on the table... For once, lets support and hear out other members and NOT bash or talk down. I hear enough bitching and name calling on the news everyday.... ::26::


Some of us "might" a few similar issues as the v-strom ?


5 Basket loose on the gear to vibrate.MP4

6 Inner plate loose.MP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bRVBnarL6CU

Suzuki DL1000 vibration - this engine damper has done 6,000 miles - become a vibrator

8 Springs and plate eat in to seats in drive direction. Little wear in over-run direction.MP4

http://www.stromtrooper.com/v-strom-modifications-performance/90954-engine-vibration-cure-clutch-basket-chudder.html

 

[Yamaguy55]

I'm sure with the brain trust we have on this forum we can come up with something to fix this for the folks that know they have the "buzz".... Lets stay on a positive note and see if we can get some ideas out on the table... For once, lets support and hear out other members and NOT bash or talk down. I hear enough bitching and name calling on the news everyday.... ::26::

Amen Brother! As for the brain trust: you're not wrong. I belong to several other sites and I find it astounding what I thought was common knowledge to all motorcyclists is completely foreign to them. This site, perhaps due to the nature of bike it caters to, is filled with extremely knowledgeable people.

If you find something conclusive, let me know.

 

[snakebitten]

Wait a second. Did you go to the Ouray Rally?

I met the "Brain Trust" of the Super Tenere.
Hmmmmm.

Great guys and gals. Many are now friends.
But..............

 

[jimbob]

Lets stay on a positive note and see if we can get some ideas out on the table... For once, lets support and hear out other members and NOT bash or talk down. I hear enough bitching and name calling on the news everyday.... ::26::

Some of us "might" a few similar issues as the v-strom ?

Thanks for getting the thread back on track for those of us that have an interest...

And yes, very similar issues to the V-Strom indeed. I've had experience with the "sharealike" DL1000 reworked baskets and how it completely fixed the issue. If he is able to come up with a similar fix for the S10 you can bet I'll be all in. Anxious to hear more data on roll_it_on's test basket...

 

[Karson]

+1

 

[sharealike]

Here's the story so far. One take movie to explain how they work and what's going wrong. Added a few words to fill in the gaps in the commentary. All I've gone through so far says it's not a simple thing to fix.

M4V08266

Keep you posted as to the outcome of the tests.

 

[Yamaguy55]

I had a little time today to test the proposed theories. Test conditions: 58F, overcast and damp.
- Yes, there is actual engine power delivery "vibration" from about 1800 RPM up past 4000. I would expect this.
- On level road with almost no throttle, the engine characteristics can be felt, and it is not excessive.
- On mountain roads with light to heavy throttle, there is considerably more "vibration," although it seems to be more an amplified version of the power delivery. RPMs 1800-4000+
- During this excess vibration range, if slight pressure is applied to the clutch lever while the engine is under load, the felt roughness instantly drops to about one third of the full amplitude, perhaps even less. Extremely noticeable.
- The remaining amount of felt vibration/roughness seems to be manageable, and most likely would be reduced more with a ECU reflash.
- Other Yamaha FI bikes have been rougher during hot weather and less so when cooler temperatures arrived. This bike is no exception.
- Changing the bars to AL ProTapers has had some improvement. So has changing grips to ProGrip714s.
- The majority of the amplitude of the vibration is eliminated by loading the throwout bearing. I was surprised just how much of an effect it had.
- I was very careful not to partially disengage the clutch, but just load the throwout bearing.
- This is repeatable every time.
- It has no detectable effect on coasting or engine braking vibration, which were negligible to begin with.

Yes, it is a twin, and a 270 degree twin at that. I don't expect electric motor smooth. But the clutch is clearly having some effect.

 

[Doug C]

Many thanks for the informative report and investigative work. We are lucky to have your efforts on our behalf. I had the modifications done on my DL1000 and it completely transformed the engine. Once you are able to offer a repair/modification procedure for these bikes I will be sending mine in. I noticed the vibration almost from day one on the Yamaha after riding the DL for 4 years but didn't want to think it could be a similar problem, seems like with the high torque twin cylinder it is part of the package. Yamaha Canada I dont think are interested in listening to complaints about vibration. Even if they did supply another basket it would be the same as we have now. I'm afraid our solution to this annoyance lies with the after market.
Many thanks to guys like sharealike and others who invest much time solving these types of things. Yes he will get paid for his service down the road but not I'm sure covering even a small percent of the time expended.
Thanks
Doug

 

[Yamaguy55]

Sorry for my prior comments. After more reading the clutch basket idea most likely is doing the vibes at those RPMs, however even with the vibes to me it is minor.

No problem. Reaction to vibration is very personal, and we have already seen that some bikes are much worse than others. I have a two digit SN bike, and I was figuring the whole thing was me until I stumbled upon this thread last night. Today's test ride was actually quite an eye opener for me. I had never considered a sloppy (relatively) cush drive in the clutch basket would have the dramatic effect it has had.

But I'll need it resolved if I'm to keep the bike. I can't have numb hands and ride. Too many nit-wits in cars, not to mention the deer/turkeys/critters around here. It has progressively gotten worse since I got the bike. I've been contemplating what to do and started several projects towards that end. The bad thing is that it has limited my desire to ride it for any distance at all. When every other bike I ride doesn't bother me, there has to be something going on with this one.

 

[Yamaguy55]

Needless to say, this subject is near and dear to me. It is fix or sell time.

I both called Yamaha Customer Service 1-(800) 962-7926 and also wrote them a letter detailing this.

I e-mailed my dealer and sent them the link to this discussion. I have no problem paying for a fix, but I see this as something Yamaha should address.

I suggest others here do the same, warranty or not. Perhaps if enough complaints get to them, something will get done. If nothing else, maybe the Aluminum framed, 150hp five-mode 2015 model will get the upgrade, which will be backwards compatible with ours. ::008::

 

[Karson]

I'm curious to see what the fix is. The youtube video left kind of a cliffhanger of what the fixed baskets looked like since he was still beta testing this on the S10 from his knowledge on the DL1000. The fact that this issue becomes apparent as early as 1500 miles is bizarre...a little early to be considered normal wear and tear. but the truth is right there in the video. Also, if I remember right, didn't the DL1000 basket have those steel springs resting directly in the aluminum basket? I thought that was a no-no, but could be wrong on all angles of that...

Maybe the general fix was highlighted in some of the earlier youtube vids, but for me it said "private" when I clicked on them.

At any rate, this kind of falls under the category of the KLR & the doohickey. So, although in an ideal world Yamaha would step up and address this, I think we hope the aftermarket world (cough, cough Jaxon), similar to how eaglemike's addressed the doohickey for the KLR (now one of our own, too!) can come up with an economical solution instead.

I do not fault your effort or anyone else who joins in on the bandwagon, though! Especially if it's got your attention enough to consider selling. I'm nearing 10k in my first full year of ownership and it's been something that I've noticed lately, but always thought was fueling related. But I had ticeman2 dyno the bike a couple weeks ago and throw that theory out the window. Bike runs great, but still has that buzz around 3k RPMs.

This could be one of those really good threads that should be stickied if anything comes to fruition. ::017::

 

[rotortech71]

Thank you very much Sharealike for the video, it was interesting and helped a lot in my understanding of what's going on. This may well be one of those fixes that eventually grows to being hugely popular, like it was with the SV and DL1000's, and I thank you for your time and effort.

 

[Red dust]

I would have no problem to pay for an aftermarket solution which would be a cheaper option than get rid of the bike anyway.
Rode with ProGrip 714 and my PussyGrips, yes that is the name of my new foam grips and it seems to stop some vibes not a solution but a band aid for now.

 

[sharealike]

The Dual Mass Flywheels fitted to the majority of auto engines here in Europe do a very good job to make diesels as refined as a petrol/gasoline engine. That's at all loads and engine speeds. Latest developments in diesel combustion are even making them as quiet at idle.

Similar principle to a DMF in these bikes as I point out in other forums. We are dealing with twin cylinder engines that have staggered firing intervals or in the case of the Super Ten they are deliberately staggered to create the character of a V twin in a parallel twin layout. These dampers are clearly built wrong. Not like the engine developers, designers and road testers had in mind or would have sampled during development. When I find things like this I often wonder if any owner has actually experienced what they truly had in mind. Point I make is do we know what normal for this bike should be?

 

[Red dust]

Waiting for someone to come up with a solution. Already spend in excess of $2000 to minimize vibration which helped zilch but gave me better ergonomics (Flexx bars & bar risers), Unleashed the engine (ECU tune), the need for gorilla hands (other grips plus foam grips), better sound (after market muffler that someone said would help), anchors for the boat I do not have (heavy end bar weights), manual cruise control, CO adj and air screws & more. So if someone got a permanent solution I`m willing to spend more (might as well continue...). In the end of the day if you can not ride the thing what does power, ergo`s and sound mean? There is no perfect bike but this one could come pretty close except the painful vibes :-(

 

[snakebitten]

$2000?
That's farkle dust.

You've barely gotten started.