If you had pulled the chain tensioner before removing the cam(s), do you think you would have had so much difficulty get them back in?jaeger22 said:Quick update. I bolted the motor back in the frame this morning! ::012:: Still a LOT of work to do before I hear it run, and not a lot of time available to work on it right now.That whole work and family thing.
But the main thing I wanted to post is that I believe I fully understand what happened and wanted to let anyone out there that may want to adjust their own valves about the trap I got caught in. There are two related issues.
First when you put in the second cam (intake) with the timing mark aligned, it is actually pushing down a bit on the number 2 cylinder intake valves. If you look closely in this picture you can see that the cam will not quite lay flat in the bearings because the #2 lobes are hitting the valves.
When you put the bearing caps on and tighten them down, it will cause the cam to twist hard to the right (clockwise). That is why the manual tells you to tie wrap the chain to the sprocket. If you don't the cam will rotate and jump a tooth on the chain. You can see the tie wraps in this picture:
I figured out that it actually requires that you install the cam one tooth to the left (counterclockwise) of the correct alignment before you tighten the bearing caps down because the cam will twist so hard that even with tie wraps locking the chain to the sprocket, it pulls the chain so tight that it ends up a tooth to the right.
All that is OK, just a bit of a pain when the motor is still in the frame. But all that tension helped hide the real problem.
Because the cylinder slants forward, the rear (intake side) chain guide flops forward and down when the chain is loose. It can go way forward as you can see in this picture.
That will allow the chain to slip around the guide in the wider sections of the cam chain channel. As you can see here.
This is very easy to see when the motor is out of the frame but when installed in the bike it is very hard to see. And from the bottom. looking under the clutch cover, all looks normal. So while I was installing the cam and fighting the above cam rotation and tension issues, I noticed the chain seemed really tight to get over the sprocket but assumed it was because of the cams hitting the valves. ::005:: Now that I have done it with the motor out I can see that is should not have been that tight.
So the top of the guide got twisted to the side and that allowed the tensioner to push directly on the cam chain instead of on the guide. I can see from the groves worn in the case and the guide exactly how the chain was running. So it started up and ran fine. But of course, the chain slowly ate away the tip of the tensioner until the plunger fell out of the tensioner body and the cam chain then jumped off.
So the bottom line is, if you take the cams out, double check the cam chain guide alignment before you button it up. It should look like this when you are all done.John
Actually I did pull the tensioner out first, and I think you would have to remove it to get the cams out. It is one of the fist steps called for in the manual.
Yes it is tight even with the tensioner out. You have to kind of tip up cam shaft to get the sprocket under the chain and then lay it down. Hard to explain but not hard to do.
That's a bit extreme.pqsqac said:
All of his problems stemmed from the ADJUSTMENT portion. If you are THAT worried about it, pull the bike down to do the "check". IF the valves need adjustment, head to the dealer or shop and let them pull cams and re-assemble.pqsqac said:
Actually I am just relieved that it didn't hand grenade or something. When I think of all the things that I could easily have messed up. . .
What's your best estimate of the number of hours you invested in this bit of maintenance? Congratulations for tackling this task successfully!jaeger22 said:It's alive! It's Alive! ::018:: I put almost 100 miles on it today. All seems to be well. No fluid leaks, no strange noises. ::015::
I started it for the first time this morning with butterflies in my belly and cheap oil in the motor just to flush it out. I let run until it reached operating temperature and then shut it down, checked for leaks, and then changed the oil and filter. Both looked clean. So I took it for a long ride. It felt and sounded like it did when new. It must have about 10 more HP and 5 MPG. OK I made that last part up but it SHOULD have for all the work I out into it! :
Thanks for all the help and support along the way guys!
::001::
John
Hard to say because it was a lot of an hour here and an hour or two there when ever I sneak out to the shop. More on weekends. But as a rough estimate I would say around 40 hours. I know a pro could do it WAY faster but I had to figure things out along the way and also had to fab a couple of special tools.
jaeger22 said:
Steve, you need to read this whole thread. That was for an engine rebuild because of a valve adjustment gone wrong, not just a valve adjustment.GSteve said:
Exactly. I plan on doing a valve check within the next few months. I don't think a CHECK will take me more than ~3 hours. An ADJUSTMENT maybe 1-2 more on top of that.scott123007 said:
Yep, my error. I've been off the grid for awhile and tried to catch up by reading the latest.avc8130 said:
Correct. I would say it would take me 4 or 5 hours now to do a check. Part of that is to remove my added stuff like crash bars, LED flood lights, and cruise control. And almost no one has needed to adjust until the 2nd or 3rd check. I was the unlucky one and I did need to adjust. I would estimate an additional 2 or 3 hours if adjustment is needed. And if you get caught in the twisted cam chain guide trap like I did, then you need to pull the motor and replace valves. That was the 40 hour part.
I actually did get lucky on the two valves I replaced and they were at .005" with the old shims. ::012:: But strangely, one of the intake valves that I didn't have to replace tightened up a tad during the remove/replace operation and it was already on the edge. So I had to pull the cams again and take a about .001"off that shim.