OIL PUMP - HELP!!!

[msch]

EricV, thanks again. A contribution to your procedure based in what I dos 2 days ago and as an alert for Snakebitten.

On point 8 you said "Oil Pan & gasket, (17 bolts ). The Service manual shows 17, but in fact there are 19. I took the 18 perimetral bolts out and could not take out the oil pan since there is another one Nº 19 a couple of inches to the middle from one side. Please see in detail the gasket in the Service Manual.

On pint 4 you said "Unplug oil level switch coupler wire, (might be able to leave this connected). The Service Manual says "unplug". But if you accommodate the cable and pull it from the ties, you will save a lot of time. I did it without a problem.

The rest is perfect.

 

[snakebitten]

Msch, thank YOU!
That 18th screw was unknown to me too and I couldn't figure out what was keeping the sump cover on. Your picture just revealed it to me.

"I have my hand on the heart"
(I always wanted to say that. That pump is the heart, right? Lol)

3 bolts to pull and I'll have it out for ya.
HORRIBLE story for your mighty Tenere. Are you ok if I totally blame you?

Poor clutch never had a chance. Haha

 

[gv550]

I understand from reading here that only the clutch plates have been replaced? The friction plates are fibre-coated steel and the reaction plates are smooth steel, so where did all the aluminum debris come from? I'm wondering if the filter went to bypass and debris did get pumped to the engine, and the aluminum is from the cam journals. The high oil consumption on the short ride home is from scored pistons and cylinders.
Wouldn't a quick inspection of the cam journals be warranted, before installing another oil pump................

 

[msch]

Snakebitten,
I sent you a mail with more details.
No truble to blaming myself of an unfortunately situation. Was my anxiety to get out of the sticky clay. I could have saved time and money if I decided to take out the front fender at the first symptoms. Yes, the front fender can be improved. As an excuse I can say that it is a very unusual situation.... the worshippers clay I have seen in riding enduro and big trails bikes during 50 years of bike rides. Also where the event happened, never had rained in summer since the last 10 years... and happened just that day.

The other side of the coin is that after that event happened I have interesting stories to tell and make me possible to meet wonderfull persons like you EricV and Tabasco.

 

[msch]

Garry (Gv 550), you raised my heart frecuency due to panic LOL.
Thanks for helping in adding value and ideas on this topic.

I changed all the friction and intermediate plates. The intermediate plates are made from iron. The friction plates has fiber coating aluminium. I just took one spare I have and scratched in the metal part....which definitively are made from aluminum. Please see the attached picture and debris I scratches with a knife.

I believe the oil windows showed cero level since the pump failed and since there were no oil pumped, the windows just shows the oil that falls from upper levels after passing the filter and lubricating the motor. That is what I believe, but not 100% sure.

There were no oil consumption. When I disassembled the clutch and took out the oil pump, I measured all the drained oil and was exactly what I added.

Tomorrow I will cut in halves the two oil filter I used before the oil pump was damaged and will see how much stuff is inside and if it is possible that the bypass occurred.

Until the last usage of the bike I did not notice strange noises and lack of power, which is a good symptom.

Nevertheless, you have a good point regarding the bypass and I will know the end story once I install the second pump.

I am trying to ::021::

 

[snakebitten]

I was just messing with ya msch. And yes, it's all part of Adventure memories. You MUST keep us updated and get us some cool pics of you guys conquering Chile!

I wish you the best of luck. Hope your Tenere gets out of heart transplant surgery in good health.

 

[gv550]

OK msch, I was not aware the friction plates were aluminum.
All the best to you with restoring your S10.

 

[msch]

Snakebitten,
I have no more word doe to my lack of English to thank you.
No doubt I will share pictures and stories with all of you.
I am impressed with the speed you took the pump out.
Word is small and hope to meet you personally in the near future.
My best regards to a good new friend.

 

[fredz43]

Great, inspiring story. Makes me very proud to be a part of this group of misfits. ;D I have met Snakebitten and Tabasco and they are first class. I haven't had the pleasure to meet Erick V, but I can tell from this and many other helpful posts that he is first class also. Again proves that Super Tenere riders are the best of the best. ::008::

 

[EricV]

Wow, I go off to work and sleep some and you guys really made some progress. I sent the PDF of the manual to Snakebitten just a bit ago, but it appears he moved on w/o it and did the deed. Good catch on the 18th bolt. Yamaha gives you quantities on same bolts, so had a (17) after one of the short bolts around the outside of the pan, but the parts fisch actually shows 19 of those. Hopefully msch will not have any issues with gaskets or o-rings. They can often be re-used, but Yamaha naturally suggests replacement every time.

I will post up if I locate an oil pump from one of the breakers and details about the motor it was pulled from, price, etc. Due to the holiday weekend in the US, I don't expect to get a response before Tues or Wed, but SB was not waiting for that!

Looks like you have left the oil pipe attached to the oil pump in the picture posted SB. FYI - That is an additional part, that won't come with the oil pump if ordered from Yamaha.

 

[EricV]

Just as an aside - Long ago I raised my front fender and changed the cross over brake line to a two line system I had made by a local hydraulic hose shop. My concern being mud packing in the fender as msch experienced. I eventually broke the fender and bolted the remains as a high mount fender. A few others have made similar changes, some using generic dirt bike fenders as the high mount fender.

 

[msch]

Hello EricV,
Thank you. I have all the O rings and gasket that was available in Yamaha Chile.
I will clean everything and will spray with gasoline the open part of the bottom of the motos to take out possible remaining parts.

One I get the Oil Pump, I will assemble everything and will run the motor with a smooth ride. Then I will take the oil pan out again and will see if there are remaining debris stuff. If not, I will continue until everything is clean.

QUESTION: how many miles think all of you is a best "wash" for disassembling and reviewing again?

 

[snakebitten]

Kind of an heads up for anyone who pulls their sump cover.........

First, it is obvious that their is a smaller "sub-cover" in the middle of the larger sump cover. That smaller cover is actually just an oil passage and channel for a screen-type filter. The screen appears to be designed to catch large particles\objects.
From external appearances you might think you can leave the sub-cover attached to the sump cover and still be able to drop the sump cover by removing the 17 perimeter and 2 interior screws. However, it turns out that 3 of the star-head screws for the smaller sub-cover are actually much longer than you would suspect, especially if you by chance had removed one of the other screws just to verify what their length was. This is what I had done and since I pulled a short one I just KNEW those sub-cover screws weren't affecting the main sump cover.

WRONG!

So the 3 much longer sub-cover screws are long enough to reach into the engine cases, and thus serve double duty.

Also note those 3 screws seem to have thread locker of some kind and are far more resistant to come out of their thread holes. So much so that I turned them out slowly and smoothly. And although they don't look damaged at all, I don't trust re-using them. They "feeeeel" like soft metal to me, considering how thick and long they are. Since they have small screw heads on them, you don't get that safe feeling you would if they were allen-head bolts.

Everything else about this disassembly was very straight forward. (although you have to locate the 2 sump bolts that are hidden from easy view)

My bike has <50,000 miles, but it's impressive to see how spotless the internals are. And everything appears robust and well machined. My screen was spotless. There isn't any visible evidence of even the tiniest particles on any surfaces anywhere. My oil is fresh so I even had the benefit of everything being coated in pure liquid gold.

As Eric stated, Yamaha calls for new o-rings and gaskets and I have no reason to skimp, but nothing looks visibly injured by the disassembly. I'd bet in a RTW back country scenario you could easily lay this beast on its side and perform this task almost anywhere. Amazingly few tools needed. I'm betting you could just reassemble and move on if you could keep from contaminating things.

 

[snakebitten]

Kind of an heads up for anyone who pulls their sump cover.........

First, it is obvious that there is a smaller "sub-cover" in the middle of the larger sump cover. That smaller cover is actually just an oil passage and channel for a screen-type filter. The screen appears to be designed to catch large particles\objects.
From external appearances you might think you can leave the sub-cover attached to the sump cover and still be able to drop the sump cover by removing the 17 perimeter and 2 interior screws. However, it turns out that 3 of the star-head screws for the smaller sub-cover are actually much longer than you would suspect, especially if you by chance had removed one of the other screws just to verify what their length was. This is what I had done and since I pulled a short one I just KNEW those sub-cover screws weren't affecting the main sump cover.

WRONG!

So the 3 much longer sub-cover screws are long enough to reach into the engine cases, and thus serve double duty.

Also note those 3 screws seem to have thread locker of some kind and are far more resistant to come out of their thread holes. So much so that I turned them out slowly and smoothly. And although they don't look damaged at all, I don't trust re-using them. They "feeeeel" like soft metal to me, considering how thick and long they are. Since they have small screw heads on them, you don't get that safe feeling you would if they were allen-head bolts.

Everything else about this disassembly was very straight forward. (although you have to locate the 2 sump bolts that are hidden from easy view)

My bike has <50,000 miles, but it's impressive to see how spotless the internals are. And everything appears robust and well machined. My screen was spotless. There isn't any visible evidence of even the tiniest particles on any surfaces anywhere. My oil is fresh so I even had the benefit of everything being coated in pure liquid gold.

As Eric stated, Yamaha calls for new o-rings and gaskets and I have no reason to skimp, but nothing looks visibly injured by the disassembly. I'd bet in a RTW back country scenario you could easily lay this beast on its side and perform this task almost anywhere. Amazingly few tools needed. I'm betting you could just reassemble and move on if you could keep from contaminating things.

 

[msch]

Snakebitten,
Now I understand why you, EricV and Tabasco are qualified as Yamaha Hero Members in this Forum ::022:: ::012:: and I'm a Newbie learning the hard way ::010:: ::002::

Do you have a thread or pictures where I can see the front fender modification?

 

[EricV]

In terms of answering your question about the 'wash' ride. That's unknown in any technical sense. I think most of the riders doing MotoMan break in procedures are covering 30 miles or so, so about 50 kms is average. I suspect that would be reasonable for time/rpm changes and oil movement to push any particles left into the screen and filter.

Here are some pics of the oil line mods. I made a few kits, but stopped doing that because profit was slim and I couldn't control how people mounted them. W/o strain relief, it is possible to damage the lines and end up with leaks and brake failure. The lines were tested to 30,000 psi when the hose assemblies were made, that still couldn't always deal with an improper installation.
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=2930.msg50555;topicseen#msg50555

Here is a pick of my high fender. A search will show others. Mine is just the remnants of the oem fender and a piece of steel from the local hardware store and some improvised attachments using the hole in the triple tree tube and a jam nut type attachment. It's stayed on for a lot of miles.

 

[snakebitten]

Don't misunderstand "Hero" status.

If not mistaken, it indicates a forum participation benchmark............another way of saying "a lot of posts"!

I have no quarrel with Jaxon and Eric's post count being indicative of how much they have brought to the table.

But for me?
It just reveals that I rarely shut up.


Front fender mod? Yea, mine is modded. But I don't think my front fender has the mod you are interested in.

It's a bit pimped out, but still very stock in location. And the brake lines are still crossover type. (I should remedy that as Eric discussed)
The only thing that has changed since this pic is my fender no longer protrudes this much beyond the brake line. I busted the tail end of it and simply cleaned it up by trimming it back a bit.

 

[msch]

Very interesting options of both Heros ... LOL.
Once I silve the oil pump ans after my two planned trips to the south of Chile y will think what to to for mannaging the mud.
Now I have only a seal saver.

 

[EricV]

I am a huge fan of fork seal covers. I have Shock Soxx, but there are many others. Zip tie and velcro attachment, so no fork removal needed. Easy to remove, clean, spray with some lube and re-install. I have, in ~100k miles, never had a seal leak or failure. I replaced the seals and other internals recently with an upgrade to Ohlins 30 mm kit, so fresh now.

 

[snakebitten]

Anyone know how translate this address into an English "shipping" format? Me and the sweet ole man at the DHL shipping place haven't found a way to enter it and not get rejected.
(some of the names and numbers have been changed to protect the innocent. Lol)

Edit: Got it figured out!

Sorry for the plea.