Michelin Anakee 3

Dallara

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Been waiting to post anything about the Michelin Anakee 3's until I had some miles on my set. Now have just over 1,600 miles on 'em, and in varying conditions, so here's my thoughts.

First off, I have never had anything other than Metzeler Tourance EXP's on my Super Tenere. They came on it stock, and I really liked them for the riding I do, so I never even tried anything else. Through a specific set of circumstances - i.e., one, I wanted to try something different just to see, and two, there wasn't a complete set of Tourance EXP's available when I was looking - I tried these Michelin's. Just note that this *review* is basically a comparison with only the Metzeler's, and note that I was careful to run identical pressures and try to ride over many of the same roads, pavement types, dirt conditions, etc. that I have used the Metzeler's on.

First off, yes, mine have a whine/hum, too, at certain speeds... And particularly on certain pavement. Was a bit disconcerting at first, but now that I know nothing is wrong I have grown to ignore the tires singing.

Second, IMHO the Michelin Anakee 3 is a good-sized notch better off-road tire than the Tourance EXP. Better on dirt roads, gravel roads, good ol' Texas caliche roads, cinders, you name it. Any type of off-pavement road they are an improvement. And they are better on Jeep twin-tracks, too. Better in mud, better on loam. Just better. They stay cleaner than the Metzeler's, and they steer better. They're even better on grass. Score one round for the Anakee 3.


Next, the Michelin Anakee 3 tires are more compliant than the Metzeler Tourance EXP's. The ride quality is noticeably smoother with better cushioning over any sort of edge or imperfection. Not that the Metzeler's were ever bad in this regard. The Anakee 3 is just a bit better, so if straight-line touring is game, or you simply like a smoother ride, the Michelin may be your tire. Anakee 3 eeks this category out bit a hair.


Steering... One more time the Michelin is better. Noticeably better. The front tire carves, rolls, and turns in like the bike has power steering compared to the EXP. Very light. In fact, almost too light in some conditions. Much less effort, and *MAYBE* more precise if you're very careful and very focused. If not the Metzeler's might actually be better. You have to stay on top of the Anakee 3's in the corner, as they respond to even the slightest bar deflection. I wouldn't call them unstable... You just have to pay closer attention to inputs with the Michelin's, especially when you get in a hurry. The Tourance EXP's exude stability and confidence, even when you're relaxed. The EXP's go exactly where you point them, and stay there. Like I said, stable, and *locked in* even mid-corner. With the Anakee 3 your line can wander a bit unless you are *focused* on exactly what you want to do and your inputs. The faster you go the more you have to pay attention. It all depends on what you want as to which is better, so let's call this one a tie...


Wet pavement performance... To be honest, I haven't gotten to ride as much in the wet with the Anakee 3's as I would have liked before making a call, but this past weekend I got to spend half a day in pretty substantial rain so I think I've got a handle on the comparison. And to tell the truth, it's another toss-up. Both brands are very, very good. The Michelin's may have a slight edge going through large patches of standing water while the Metzeler's have the advantage when leaned over quite a bit. Honestly, I wouldn't hesitate to pick either for sustained wet weather use, so another tie.


Dry pavement performance... Well, to me this is where things fall apart for the Michelin Anakee 3. With "Adventure" tires everything is a compromise, and IMHO Michelin chose to lean a bit more toward the dirt side of the equation and lost out to the Tourance EXP on pavement. Don't get me wrong, the Michelin is a fine pavement tire... That is until you really begin to turn up the wick and press it, right over to the edge of the tire. Then the Michelin gives the game away to the Metzeler - big-time. You can hustle the Anakee 3's, but when you get over to peg-draggin levels, and are pressing the issue to the apex, the Michelin sometimes just *lets go*!!! That's right, the Anakee 3's just unhook and you have some real pucker-inducing moments. And just so you understand how bad this can be - you can readily slide, slide, slide the rear Anakee 3 away with TCS-1 turned on!!! Mind you, this is at the last little edge of the tread, but note, the Metzeler Tourance EXP doesn't let loose there. It hangs in there and sticks, sticks, sticks like a sport bike tire, right 'til you're feathering the edge. In fact, you press on the Metzeler's much, much harder through the twisty bits, and not just because the Anakee 3 lets go so readily, but really because the Metzeler Tourance EXP's are more confidence inspiring. The EXP's just never really seem to do anything wrong, or be phased by mid-corner bumps, pavement transitions, tar snakes, broken spots, changes in camber, etc. They just go where you point 'em and hang in there until all the hard parts are dragging. Not so with the Michelin Anakee 3's. Much like the steering, you feel like you have pay close, careful attention to the Anakee 3's whenever the pavement winds all up upon itself or the surface is changing and you're wicking it up. Sport bike tire equivalents they're not. They're OK, and if you never really test the edge on pavement, you may never notice. But note this... There's a wonderful corner here locally I use to test all front tires. It's a 3rd gear uphill right with lots of positive camber as it climbs, but it flattens out near the top, while you're still turning, and it really tests front tires. Through this the Metzeler Tourance EXP front was alway exemplary, carrying the bike through all the way up with all the speed you'd like to carry, and cresting out over the top with never a slip or a slide. This same corner is fine with the Michelin Anakee 3's at normal velocities, but the other day I decided it was time to really test the front Anakee 3, and I went into it pretty hard (but not as hard as I've been through there on the EXP's), and pressed it on the way up... And then halfway up, well before the crest, the front let go and pushed away. Nothing too scary as there is plenty of room to recover and because of where the corner is located there is no chance of crossing over into opposing traffic... But still, not what you want the front tire to do when leaned on. I will say this, the front let loose more progressively than the rear, pushing away with some warning, but still not ideal.

Point of all this? Pretty simple. IMHO the Anakee 3 loses this category, and loses it dramatically. For pure dry pavement performance the Metzeler Tourance EXP wins this one hands down, period, and the Michelin Anakee 3 comes nowhere close.


And for me, that's the kicker. I like to ride off-road, but where I live I am pretty much forced to ride on the pavement 90-95% of the time, or ride 150-200 miles to ride anywhere decent off-road. That means I have to be honest with myself and go with tires that are biased the same way I ride - 90-95% pavement. I also like to ride fun and fast in the twisty bits, so near-the-edge performance is very important to me.

So how does this comparison/review come out in my eyes?

If you want a good pavement tire that can do well off-road, too, and your riding split is something like 60-40 or 70-30 pavement to dirt, or even 80-20, then the Michelin Anakee 3 may be for you.

OTOH, if you spend a lot of time on pavement, with just occasional forays off the road - *AND* you really like riding fast down curvy roads - then for me it's the Metzler Tourance EXP.

In fact, I can't wait to wear out these Anakee 3's so I can swap back to a set of Metzeler Tourance EXP's, or maybe the new Tourance NEXT's.

Just my two centavos... YMMV.

Dallara



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Firefight911

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Excellent review Dallara!

Do you feel anything could change with pressure adjustments and/or suspension tweaks to counter the on pavement issues you faced?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!
 

Dallara

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Firefight911 said:
Excellent review Dallara!

Do you feel anything could change with pressure adjustments and/or suspension tweaks to counter the on pavement issues you faced?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!

Though I started with identical pressures to what I found I liked with the Metzeler's (40-42 rear/31-33 front) at first to get a fair initial comparison I have played a bit with the pressures of the Anakee 3's to see if I could improve things. From what I've found dropping the pressures (as low as 32 rear and 26 front) makes the Michelin's work even better off-pavement, but it only makes things worse on the tarmac. They become less precise and feel more clumsy and overall grip does not improve. The lower you go the worse it gets.

Raising the pressures (as high as 45 rear and 36 front) at either end doesn't improve things, either, other than to reduce the Anakee's nice compliance.

One thing I also noticed with the Anakee 3's I did not mention in the post above - The TCS light flashes a ton more with Anakee 3's than it ever did with the Tourance EXP's, straight line or otherwise. You can really get it strobing good on corner exits. I never saw that from the Metzeler's.

I have not altered suspension settings in any way to try and compensate for the Anakee's on-pavement behavior.

Dallara



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tomatocity

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Dallara, today I raised the tire pressures to 38F 42R (from 32F 36R/38R) and felt a BIG difference on the asphalt. The comparison was on the same river roads, rural roads, city streets, and freeways. Turn-n is quicker, of course. With lower pressures I could not feel the road while entering the turn. Tracks through the corners, finally. With lower pressures the Tenere would search through the corners. Handles wind much better. Tracks better through rough agricultural roads at speed, 60-70 mph. IMO these tires like higher air pressures on asphalt. Haven't ridden dirt or gravel yet.
 

Dallara

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tomatocity said:
Dallara, today I raised the tire pressures to 38F 42R (from 32F 36R/38R) and felt a BIG difference on the asphalt. The comparison was on the same river roads, rural roads, city streets, and freeways. Turn-n is quicker, of course. With lower pressures I could not feel the road while entering the turn. Tracks through the corners, finally. With lower pressures the Tenere would search through the corners. Handles wind much better. Tracks better through rough agricultural roads at speed, 60-70 mph. IMO these tires like higher air pressures on asphalt. Haven't ridden dirt or gravel yet.

As I mentioned above, I've tried higher pressures and I still don't think they're a match for the Tourance EXP's in the twisty stuff. Right now I have my Anakee 3's set at 42 rear and 33 front and that seems to be the best compromise for compliance, ride, and handling for me. I've tried up to 45 in the rear and 36 in the front and the only difference I notice is the ride compliance goes to crap... No improvement for me in pure grip. The rear stills lets go and the front will still push at the limit.

Still, I don't want anybody to think I am saying the Anakee 3 is a *bad* tire. Far from it. In fact, as I mentioned, I think it is a *better* off-road tire than the Tourance EXP, so if someone is looking for a more off-road biased street tire it would be my pick. In other words, if I rode 20 to 40% of miles off-road, and 60-80% on pavement this would probably be my tire of choice...

But I don't. Given the place I live and how little that allows me to ride off-road I end up riding 90 to 95% on pavement, and for that, and my riding preference and style, the Metzeler Tourance EXP is a better weapon IMHO.

I will try bumping the pressures again, though, Tomatocity... particularly in the front.

I will say they do like they will wear well, though it is hard to say just how long at this juncture.

Thanks!

Dallara


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EricV

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Dallara my friend, you need to try more tires. You're running way too low a pressure in the front. Rear is fine. You're not a light guy.

The EXPs are some of the worst POS tires I've ever ridden on. Especially in TX on the farm roads outside Junction. I pulled over to check if I had a flat they were so bad.

As for the Anakee 3s, well, they are better than the EXPs but they don't hold up well to high speed and constant use. 3500 miles and not looking like the rear will be doing so good by 6500. Unimpressive. AS were the PR3 Trails that couldn't manage more than 8500 on the rear before being bald. I'll never buy another PR3, ever. Utter crap for the money. Great in the wet, as long as you don't mind wicked cupping in the front and short life span. Got raped for $200 for that Anakee 3 rear too. My bad fortune for thinking the PR3 would actually go to 10k. Wears very, very fast at the end too. Wear bars to bald in 200 miles.




Back to the K60s for me. They last.
 

Dallara

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EricV said:
Dallara my friend, you need to try more tires. You're running way too low a pressure in the front. Rear is fine. You're not a light guy.

The EXPs are some of the worst POS tires I've ever ridden on. Especially in TX on the farm roads outside Junction. I pulled over to check if I had a flat they were so bad.

As for the Anakee 3s, well, they are better than the EXPs but they don't hold up well to high speed and constant use. 3500 miles and not looking like the rear will be doing so good by 6500. Unimpressive. AS were the PR3 Trails that couldn't manage more than 8500 on the rear before being bald. I'll never buy another PR3, ever. Utter crap for the money. Great in the wet, as long as you don't mind wicked cupping in the front and short life span. Got raped for $200 for that Anakee 3 rear too. My bad fortune for thinking the PR3 would actually go to 10k. Wears very, very fast at the end too. Wear bars to bald in 200 miles.
Back to the K60s for me. They last.

Note, Eric...

I said all the tires I have ever run on my Super Tenere have been the Metzeler Tourance EXP's and these Michelin Anakee 3's. I never said they were the only tires I have ridden on in my life, nor the only ones I have tried on an "Adventure" type bike or sport touring bike.

Remember, too, that how long a tire "lasts" is way down the priority list for me. First priority for me is how much confidence I have 'em, and second is how good they stick for *ME*. Long mileage is down at number 7 or 8, maybe 10, for me. Road racing taught me that it's the crash you never had is how one should really measure tires. Not how many laps you could do on 'em.

And I've tried higher pressures. The pressures (cold) I have mentioned are what work for me... But then again, I live here in South Texas - where if you don't cruise at 85 MPH minimum on the road you're gonna' get blown off into the ditch, and you have already mentioned you don't like going even that fast. My straight road cruise speed is usually 85 to 95 MPH, and on some parts of Texas we set the cruise in triple digits (and that's no brag, that's what a lot of folks do!). That's why I never leave home without the radar detector... ;)

Perhaps the true, hot operating temperatures we run at down here are closer to what you may trying to get at.

And, of course, my bike has good suspension, which helps immensely as you know... At least as far as "mechanical grip" (which is what used to call it in race cars) goes. I'll be happy to send you pictures of my various tire wear patterns if you like. Mine rears wear the most right down the middle, just like they do for most folks who live here in south Texas, and I get good, even wear from there all the way over to the tire edge on both front and rear. And oddly enough, even as hard as I use the brakes, I don't get any cupping. In fact, I can't remember the last set of tires I had that cupped.

Tell ya' what... Next time you come to the Texas Hill Country you bring whatever tires you think is best (with that 1100 lbs rear spring... ;) ). I'd like to try 'em at the pressures you like. I'll most likely have EXP's or Tourance NEXT's on mine by then. We can go take a spin through the "Triple 3's" and see which ones really *work*.

::025:: ::025:: ::025:: ::025:: ::025::

Dallara






p.s. - if you softened up that rear spring you might improve your tire mileage, as well as cure that front end cupping!

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EricV

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Nice try. Nope, you're running far too soft on the front. Suspension has nothing to do with tire pressure. Load and use have everything to do with it.

The PR3 cups badly because of the tread design. I don't use the brakes that much. Though it is true that braking into turns, especially downhill ones, will cup tires quickly.

As far as your suspension goes, you're only telling me you have every advantage, yet still ride crap tires. WTF? As far as confidence in your tires, I'm frankly surprised you don't have more. If you didn't have good confidence, why buy a second set of the same thing. And if you felt inspired by EXPs, almost anything else would Wow you.

As far as speed goes, you're mistaken. Yes, I prefer to ride no more than 5-10 over. That doesn't mean I haven't ridden rather faster. I did a 20 hour BBG a few weekends ago. That was the first part of the rear Anakee 3. And we have 80 mph legal speed limits in UT. And as far as being blown off the road, BS. I've ridden your roads plenty. Love those 70 mph farm roads, btw. But 95 on anything there is getting the wrong attention and not many are going that fast.

You want to talk tires, I have tried quite a few different ones. ^-^
 

tomatocity

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Eric, I agree on the K60 if I were riding a lot of gravel. They are a Gravel Monster. Recently at Carrizo Plain http://goo.gl/maps/kj4Ls and the K60's made me feel confident like I knew more than I do. 60-70 mph on dirt/gravel and the K60's handled like we were on a freeway. There are sections of old asphalt and last year I was cruising in the 90's and the K60's did not care. Most aggressive tires smooth out as they wear. But not the K60's. They wear on my hands and arms and that is why I have the MA3's. I will save the K60's for a trip in a couple months.
 

Dallara

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EricV said:
Nice try. Nope, you're running far too soft on the front. Suspension has nothing to do with tire pressure. Load and use have everything to do with it.

The PR3 cups badly because of the tread design. I don't use the brakes that much. Though it is true that braking into turns, especially downhill ones, will cup tires quickly.

As far as your suspension goes, you're only telling me you have every advantage, yet still ride crap tires. WTF? As far as confidence in your tires, I'm frankly surprised you don't have more. If you didn't have good confidence, why buy a second set of the same thing. And if you felt inspired by EXPs, almost anything else would Wow you.

As far as speed goes, you're mistaken. Yes, I prefer to ride no more than 5-10 over. That doesn't mean I haven't ridden rather faster. I did a 20 hour BBG a few weekends ago. That was the first part of the rear Anakee 3. And we have 80 mph legal speed limits in UT. And as far as being blown off the road, BS. I've ridden your roads plenty. Love those 70 mph farm roads, btw. But 95 on anything there is getting the wrong attention and not many are going that fast.

You want to talk tires, I have tried quite a few different ones. ^-^

Wow, Eric.

Never thought I'd hear that kind of thing from you, but hey... I'll play.

First off, the max rated pressure for the Michelin Anakee 3's is 41 PSI, front & rear, and I hate to burst your bubble, but just because a tire is rated for a certain pressure doesn't mean that's where you run it for maximum grip, or even tire life for that matter. Our ol' Indy Car tires were rated for burst pressures of over 150 PSI, but the pressures used in 'em were in the 20 to 30 PSI range. I use that just as an example, but you get the idea. These days, with current motorcycle tire construction, the ol' "best to run it at the max pressure" line just doesn't necessarily apply, and it never has for trying to get the maximum cornering grip out of a tire.

As far as suspension goes... You're just flat wrong. Ask any race engineer, or tire technician for that matter, and he'll tell you proper suspension has everything to do with what tire pressures you run for maximum grip. Grip is not just a function of tire construction and compound, but also of tire contact patch (among other things), and running up on the max pressure sometimes does no mare than reduce that contact patch. That might be good for reducing rolling resistance, but not for much else. While running a tire at too low a pressure can certainly cause it to run hotter (do you know all the reasons why?), running it at too high a pressure for conditions can do the same thing. Sorry, but there is not one, true, perfect pressure for all conditions, all bikes, or even all riders - regardless of what tire brand it is.

BTW, did you know that running your rear springing too stiff in relation to your front springing will cause tire cupping? Look it up... ;)

And lets not forget, what is a crap tire to one person is a great tire to another. Very much depends on riding style when your talking about cornering grip as long as the tires are reasonably equivalent (like the Tourance EXP and the Anakee 3). Classic example for me at one point was when the Michelin M45 DOT tire for WERA Production and Endurance racing came out. Racers flocked to them in droves, but I could never come to grips with 'em (no pun intended), and preferred to stick to the tried and true Dunlop K181's and 291's we had been using. Lots of folks said the M45's were better, but I never had any problem beating an M45-shod bike. Confidence is how a tire *talks* to you. Just because you couldn't communicate with a Metzeler Tourance EXP doesn't mean I can't, or anyone else for that matter. And yes, I have ridden on bikes with regular Tourance's (I don't like 'em) and Michelin Anakee 2's (don't like them either). And I've ridden on Michelin PR's (not bad) and PP's (damn good), all sorts of Metzler street tires (very mixed for me, one to another), Pirelli's (some bordering on favorites, others I hate, and all my Ducati's have had 'em), Dunlop's (pretty consistently good, and I have Roadsmarts on my XR1200), etc., etc.

As for a IBA rides... Well, I'm glad you like 'em, but they're not my thing. IIRC a BBG is 1500 miles in 36 hours, right? Me, I've never even done one of the SS1000/24 hour ride, but I've ridden 900 miles in 15 hours, and that wasn't particularly difficult nor did I have to go that fast. I just had to get from Birmingham, AL to Corpus Christi, TX and stuck to the interstate. Best I can figure is you don't have to go very fast to get IBA rides. You just have to stay on the road as much as possible and make short fuel stops. Hell, 900 miles in 15 hours is only averaging 60 MPH... And I made lots of long, leisurely stops. So I'm sorry, IMHO just because you can do 1500 miles in 36 hours doesn't say to me you're going very fast. It just you like sitting on the bike droning a lot and refueling quickly.

As for Texas... Sorry again, but I don't think you've ridden/driven here as much as I have, nor do you ride with the groups I do. And these days most of our Farm-to-market roads down around me have *MARKED* 75 MPH limits, just like any other highway away from towns and cities, and any DPS cop will give you to 85 MPH without a second glance. I don't care whether you believe it or not, 90 and 95 MPH is not uncommon around here. C'mon down and I'll show ya'.

And when it comes to tires, if "almost anything else would Wow" me, then how come I am so disappointed in the Anakee 3's? Even when I've run them 42 rear (more than it's rated) and 36 front?

Dallara



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cosmic

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That A3 is a fugly tire. So happy i wasn't screwed over by my tire stealer.
Look at this beauty... She sings to me while riding... :D

,

3500k's two up, fully loaded (2,6 - 2,8)




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EricV

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Dallara said:
Wow, Eric.

Never thought I'd hear that kind of thing from you, but hey... I'll play.
I'm really tired of going down this road with you Dallara. I respond when you post something that's flat out wrong, because it's flat out wrong. It's not my riding style Vs your riding style.
First off, the max rated pressure for the Michelin Anakee 3's is 41 PSI, front & rear, and I hate to burst your bubble, but just because a tire is rated for a certain pressure doesn't mean that's where you run it for maximum grip, or even tire life for that matter. <snip> These days, with current motorcycle tire construction, the ol' "best to run it at the max pressure" line just doesn't necessarily apply, and it never has for trying to get the maximum cornering grip out of a tire.
Please re-read my post. At no point did I suggest or write that maximum pressure was best. What I said was you are running the front tire pressure too low.
As far as suspension goes... You're just flat wrong. Ask any race engineer, or tire technician for that matter, and he'll tell you proper suspension has everything to do with what tire pressures you run for maximum grip. <snip>
What you said about suspension is true, but it's not applicable here. You're talking about minor issues at maximum levels. If you ride at 10/10ths on the street, on a Super Tenere, I would be surprised. You're frankly not that stupid. At street level riding, maximum grip means little. And please don't go off into what ifs and potential emergency maneuvers to rationalize your statements again.

BTW, did you know that running your rear springing too stiff in relation to your front springing will cause tire cupping? Look it up... ;)
Yes, I did know that. Do you know that you don't have any idea if my spring is too stiff? You think it is. Every time I try to give AC or you data, you claim something else is wrong and it's too stiff, despite the data that shows that it's probably too lite, if anything. And neither of you have ridden my bike. Stop pushing that in every discussion please.

And lets not forget, what is a crap tire to one person is a great tire to another. Very much depends on riding style when your talking about cornering grip as long as the tires are reasonably equivalent (like the Tourance EXP and the Anakee 3). <snip> Confidence is how a tire *talks* to you. Just because you couldn't communicate with a Metzeler Tourance EXP doesn't mean I can't, or anyone else for that matter. And yes, I have ridden on bikes with regular Tourance's (I don't like 'em) and Michelin Anakee 2's (don't like them either). And I've ridden on Michelin PR's (not bad) and PP's (damn good), all sorts of Metzler street tires (very mixed for me, one to another), Pirelli's (some bordering on favorites, others I hate, and all my Ducati's have had 'em), Dunlop's (pretty consistently good, and I have Roadsmarts on my XR1200), etc., etc.
Again, what your talking about is at the limits of tire adhesion. On the track. Are you riding at the limits of tire adhesion on the street?

As for a IBA rides... Well, I'm glad you like 'em, but they're not my thing. IIRC a BBG is 1500 miles in 36 hours, right?
Actually no, it's 1500 miles in 24 hours. However if you were to read my previous post, you would see that I specified doing a BBG in 20 hours. You missed the reference I was trying to make.

Me, I've never even done one of the SS1000/24 hour ride, but I've ridden 900 miles in 15 hours, and that wasn't particularly difficult nor did I have to go that fast. I just had to get from Birmingham, AL to Corpus Christi, TX and stuck to the interstate. Best I can figure is you don't have to go very fast to get IBA rides. You just have to stay on the road as much as possible and make short fuel stops. Hell, 900 miles in 15 hours is only averaging 60 MPH... And I made lots of long, leisurely stops. So I'm sorry, IMHO just because you can do 1500 miles in 36 hours doesn't say to me you're going very fast. It just you like sitting on the bike droning a lot and refueling quickly.
You're absolutely correct. 900 miles in 15 hours isn't very difficult. That is perfectly on pace for a standard 1000 mile in 24 hour ride. (most people do that in 16-18 Hrs.) That's the entry level ride for the IBA and as you said, there is plenty of time to do so, especially on the slab. Many people choose to ride these long rides on two lane back roads as well. Some even on all dirt roads. It changes the difficulty, but it also allows riders to see and go the places they want, while still challenging themselves in that manner.

As for Texas... Sorry again, but I don't think you've ridden/driven here as much as I have, nor do you ride with the groups I do. And these days most of our Farm-to-market roads down around me have *MARKED* 75 MPH limits, just like any other highway away from towns and cities, and any DPS cop will give you to 85 MPH without a second glance. I don't care whether you believe it or not, 90 and 95 MPH is not uncommon around here. C'mon down and I'll show ya'.
You're certainly right, I haven't ridden in TX as much as you. But I have ridden thru and around it many times. I recall seeing 70 mph marked farm roads, but I accept your comment about them being marked 75. But I very rarely saw anyone going 90-95 during any of my riding in TX and the DPS routinely write citations for 2-3 mph over on the Interstates, so I'm not buying your "85 mph w/o a second glance". I suggest you are somewhat exaggerating that. And thanks, but I'll pass on the group rides. ::)
And when it comes to tires, if "almost anything else would Wow" me, then how come I am so disappointed in the Anakee 3's? Even when I've run them 42 rear (more than it's rated) and 36 front?
The last part is easy. If you're riding street at the level you seem to imply, no 80/20 tire is going to impress you much. The EXP is more of a 90/10 tire and I'm surprised you like it, (still), because the aspect I disliked about it was its extremely poor wet traction, especially in TX on the wonderful farm roads where when you change counties the road surface has more or less tar in it. The dry traction wasn't that bad, but they wore faster than other tires I've used and I'm generally pretty easy on tires.

Try some Conti Trails, or better yet, some Conti Roads. You mentioned that you liked the PP. <sigh> I'm sure you did. They last about 2k miles since they are a uber sticky street tire intended for sport bikes and track use, but still DOT legal. And I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure they don't come in the sizes for the Super Ten, so you liked them on some other bike. Yes, our needs are different. I consider a tire for use on road and some off pavement to be a compromise, but I still want it to last 10k miles, for my riding style. I've had plenty of tires last that long, (rears), in the past. When a company hypes their tires as being long lasting, or longer lasting than their previous version, and they can't even hold up as long as the previous version, (PR3 Vs PR2 for example, Storm Vs Azaro as another), that's disappointing. The consumer is being lied to and it's a waste of my money to buy their tires.

OEM tires for Yamaha are usually Bridgestone or Metzler. It's a rare person that finds those oem tires work best for them. Usually when I find someone that says that, they haven't tried other tires or simply enjoy the lower cost of the oem tires. Or they have been misled by their dealer into buying all their tires from that dealer.

The reason I'm returning to K60s, even though I'll be riding mostly pavement for the next set of tires, is because they last to 12k for my riding. IF they wear a bit faster than that, I can still trust them to last over the distance I need them to for my upcoming ride in July. I can't trust the PR3 to do that and have seen extreme wear occur, (first hand), plus seen them wear much faster at the end of life when they were still over the wear bars. From wear bars to smooth in the center was ~200 miles for me, at 85F and riding ~75 mph on a mix of two lane and interstate.

@Tomatocity - I hope the MA3s work out well for you Tim. One of my dislikes about moto tires in general is that the feel pretty much starts going down hill from day one. The vibes in the K60s are worse than some other tires when past half their tread life. The front does seem to go thru stages where it's rougher, then smoothes out, then gets rougher again. I suspect this has to do with the way the knobs wear on the rows off the centerline.
 

Dallara

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EricV said:
I'm really tired of going down this road with you Dallara. I respond when you post something that's flat out wrong, because it's flat out wrong. It's not my riding style Vs your riding style.
Please re-read my post. At no point did I suggest or write that maximum pressure was best. What I said was you are running the front tire pressure too low.

And I'm equally tired of your antics in threads like these, Eric... Just because you say it's wrong doesn't necessarily make it so. You need look no further than the Yamaha Super Tenere's own owners and service manuals to see that's the case.

For instance, from the owners manual:




Let's look *CAREFULLY* at what that says... And correct me (and Yamaha, but WTF do they know?) if you still think it's wrong, but it sure looks like it basically says that from 0 all the way up to 461 lbs of loaded weight Yamaha - the folks who built the bike and put Metzeler Tourance EXP's on the bike from the factory - recommend 33 PSI for front tire pressure.

Weird, too, as that's exactly what I've found to work best for me, and I've tried lower, and yes, higher pressures. Read that again, Eric... *I'VE TRIED HIGHER PRESSURES*, and I think it handles worse with higher pressures in the front.

so are you saying Yamaha's "flat out wrong", too?




EricV said:
What you said about suspension is true, but it's not applicable here. You're talking about minor issues at maximum levels. If you ride at 10/10ths on the street, on a Super Tenere, I would be surprised. You're frankly not that stupid. At street level riding, maximum grip means little. And please don't go off into what ifs and potential emergency maneuvers to rationalize your statements again.


As always with you, Eric... If you don't want it to be applicable it can't possibly be applicable. As you would say, BS.

Maximum grip is always "applicable", because you never know when you're going to need it.



EricV said:
Again, what your talking about is at the limits of tire adhesion. On the track. Are you riding at the limits of tire adhesion on the street?

Are you going to tell me you've never spun a rear tire on the street, wet or dry? If you ever have you've exceeded the tire's maximum grip, period.

Are you going to tell me you've never locked a tire on the street, wet or dry? If you ever have you've exceeded the tire's maximum grip, period.

Are you going to tell me you've never had a tire slip or slide out on a corner on the street, wet or dry? If you ever have then you've exceeded the tire's maximum grip level, period.




EricV said:
You're certainly right, I haven't ridden in TX as much as you. But I have ridden thru and around it many times. I recall seeing 70 mph marked farm roads, but I accept your comment about them being marked 75. But I very rarely saw anyone going 90-95 during any of my riding in TX and the DPS routinely write citations for 2-3 mph over on the Interstates, so I'm not buying your "85 mph w/o a second glance". I suggest you are somewhat exaggerating that. And thanks, but I'll pass on the group rides. ::)


Like I said, Eric. C'mon down and ride with me some time. I'd welcome it, for more than just one reason.

And I've lived here all my life and I've never - not once, ever - seen any DPS officer, anywhere in the state, write a ticket for "2-3 mph over on the Interstates", period. I've had them routinely *WALK* me for 15 and 20 over, though the last citation I was actually written up on was 74 in a 55, entering Hallettsville, TX.

So I'm sorry, Eric... Here's where you're "flat wrong". If you don't think you can go 85 MPH in a 75 MPH zone (or 95 MPH in an 85 MPH zone) routinely then like I said, c'mon down. I'll be happy to show ya'.

The rest of your posted reply is pure drivel. One again, just because you don't like a tire doesn't mean no one else does. Geez, Eric... You run that incredibly silly 1,100 lbs rear spring on your Super Tenere. I don't care what load you are carrying. It's certainly not more than some of these folks I've seen carrying tons of luggage and riding two-up, and even well respected, highly reputable, and very successful suspension experts don't recommend springing that stiff for them. Does that make you "flat out wrong" for choosing such an absurd rear spring rate?

And better yet, what springs are you running up front with that gargantuan spring out back? The stock ones? With your weight? And the loads you claim to carry? Hmmmmm... Wouldn't that make your front springing "flat out wrong"?

One more time you've painted yourself into a box, Eric. You are not the world's final word on tire selection, nor on pressures. Even Yamaha disagrees with you... But hey, WTF do they know? ::)

Dallara



~
 

EricV

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Dallara said:
And I'm equally tired of your antics in threads like these, Eric... Just because you say it's wrong doesn't necessarily make it so. You need look no further than the Yamaha Super Tenere's own owners and service manuals to see that's the case.

For instance, from the owners manual:
so are you saying Yamaha's "flat out wrong", too?
Yes I am. You don't weigh 150 lbs. Yamaha made that mistake on the FJR too, and changed it later to a higher pressure.
Are you going to tell me you've never spun a rear tire on the street, wet or dry? If you ever have you've exceeded the tire's maximum grip, period.

Are you going to tell me you've never locked a tire on the street, wet or dry? If you ever have you've exceeded the tire's maximum grip, period.

Are you going to tell me you've never had a tire slip or slide out on a corner on the street, wet or dry? If you ever have then you've exceeded the tire's maximum grip level, period.
Spun a tire on the street? Nope, never have. It's called throttle management. Try it some time.

Locked a tire on the street? Yep, because I screwed up. Not because I exceeded the grip of the tire, I over braked for the conditions present. A stickier tire would have made no difference.

Slip or slide out in a corner. Yep, those crappy EXPs in the wet. Never had that happen with K60s in the wet. And that was at a constant speed, not under acceleration.

Can I do all of those? Sure! With any tire made. Or I could ride for the conditions and at an even pace and not have any of them happen.
[qoute]

Like I said, Eric. C'mon down and ride with me some time. I'd welcome it, for more than just one reason.

And I've lived here all my life and I've never - not once, ever - seen any DPS officer, anywhere in the state, write a ticket for "2-3 mph over on the Interstates", period. I've had them routinely *WALK* me for 15 and 20 over, though the last citation I was actually written up on was 74 in a 55, entering Hallettsville, TX.
[/quote]

As to the DPS, maybe TX plates get a wave, but I know plenty of people that didn't at lower speeds. The only time I've seen traffic at speeds you mention is commute times and paths around major cities where the DPS seems to pretty much ignore everything except extreme cases.

I have no interest in running 20 over the posted limit unless I am in extremely desolate areas and usually don't even then. 20 over in a lot of states/provinces will get you a very nasty ticket and in some, bike impound.
 

Dallara

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EricV said:
Yes I am. You don't weigh 150 lbs. Yamaha made that mistake on the FJR too, and changed it later to a higher pressure.
Well, last I checked it says for up to 461 lbs., and they do vary the rear tire pressure, don't they?

And the bike has been out here in the USA since July 2011, and in other parts of the world longer than that, and Yamaha still shows the same tire pressures.

But again, WTF do they know? Yamaha is "flat out wrong" and you're the one that's right, eh? :D



EricV said:
Spun a tire on the street? Nope, never have. It's called throttle management. Try it some time.


I'll match my throttle control with yours any time, Eric... And if you don't occasionally spin the rear tire how can you possibly know its real limitations? You might want to try knowing those sometime before you try handing out tire advice...


EricV said:
Locked a tire on the street? Yep, because I screwed up. Not because I exceeded the grip of the tire, I over braked for the conditions present. A stickier tire would have made no difference.

Whether you screwed up or not, if you locked the wheel you exceeded the maximum grip of the tire. If you hadn't exceeded the tire wouldn't have locked... Welcome to the club! :D



EricV said:
Slip or slide out in a corner. Yep, those crappy EXPs in the wet. Never had that happen with K60s in the wet. And that was at a constant speed, not under acceleration.

I'm beginning to believe it wasn't the fault of those "crappy EXPs in the wet", but instead that of the nut on the handlebars... You know, the same one who screwed up braking? :D



EricV said:
Can I do all of those? Sure! With any tire made. Or I could ride for the conditions and at an even pace and not have any of them happen.


Hey, now we're getting somewhere! You're finally beginning to understand the term "maximum grip"!!! :D

And please do let me know the next time you're coming down to Texas! I want to see your "Pace"... ::017::



EricV said:
As to the DPS, maybe TX plates get a wave, but I know plenty of people that didn't at lower speeds.


Show me the citation for "2-3 mph over" on an interstate... Methinks you are exaggerating - in the extreme. ::)



EricV said:
The only time I've seen traffic at speeds you mention is commute times and paths around major cities where the DPS seems to pretty much ignore everything except extreme cases.


You don't live down here. At best, all you've ever done is a bit of passin' through. Get back to me when you have a few years down here under your belt.



EricV said:
I have no interest in running 20 over the posted limit unless I am in extremely desolate areas and usually don't even then. 20 over in a lot of states/provinces will get you a very nasty ticket and in some, bike impound.


Then you well and truly are... What did you call me in the other thread? Oh yeah... Then you, Eric, are a "Poseur", and have no business giving folks advice on performance tires! :D

Especially running that 1,100 lbs rear truck spring on your Super Tenere and a car tire on your FJR... ;)


Dallara



~
 

tomatocity

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This time I am stickin' with "just because you are thinking it doesn't mean you have to say it"
 

Monty

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It seems like whatever thread I read, these chaps are swinging their handbags at each other. Come on guys, it is the weekend so how about heading out for a ride using whatever tires you prefer, and stop using all the forum bandwidth to slug it out.

If you don't want a ride, fancy a beer? :)

Matt
 

Firefight911

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Great, now they're going to fight over beer types and brands!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!
 
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