For Safety's Sake.....

[88millimeter]

Snake, no i did not find your comment derogatory. By the way where along the coast are you located? Im near Houston, will you be riding to the Denver gathering?

I still don't know if i'll be able to make it, by that time i should be walking without crutches but i will still have a screw in my foot.

 

[snakebitten]

I tell folks Alvin. But folks in Alvin say I live out of town. (OK. It's 6 miles to Alvin proper)

Colorado is a yes. And, my brother is coming too on his Vstrom. And our wives. So we are both going 2-up.

My pillion queen will ride anywhere and for long runs. His won't. No way.
That means a truck is going.
Might seem silly following MY truck on my bike. So probably hauling them.
But that means there might be a shopping day for the ladies.
That means some standup riding will be in order!

Sure hope you do mend though.

 

[Dallara]

...Hey Dallara, your post on the other forum concerning this same subject was excellent. I wanted to flat out copywrite infringe to post it here.
Why the different approach over here? Have we worn you out that bad?

Just look at how Mike's crash was handled over there as compared to here... People were genuinely concerned about how he fared in the accident first and foremost, whereas over here the first thing people started with was how they *knew* he did everything all *wrong*, etc. Some even alluded that he must be inexperienced, while others erroneously stated he either jumped out of the throttle or jammed on the brakes, or that he got into the corner "too hot", etc., etc., etc.... And all from just a few low-resolution pictures (not to mention with watermarks all over them), and all without bothering for even a femto-second to check out what actually happened. It wasn't hard, nor the least bit time-consuming, to actually look a bit and see what Mike himself had to say about what happened, nor to see he is an accomplished, experienced, careful, and skillful rider... Yet it seemed few here even bothered to look. It was easier for them to rather disrespectfully slam him, and do so despite the fact the vast majority of their assumptions were woefully inaccurate.

And some doing it I doubt very seriously are near the rider Mike is.

Maybe it was just the fact Mike is not a poster over here. Not too long ago a member here had an off-road crash that hospitalized him, and rightfully he got best wishes for speedy recovery, compassion for his injuries, and overall good will from the collective. You didn't see anybody lambasting him for making all sorts of errors, mistakes, poor choices on everything from equipment to suspension to throttle control to line selection, ad infinitum. Nope, none of that. Just kind hearted commiseration. Why is that? Why is it that he got none of the treatment Mike did? How come he didn't get questioned about everything he did from tire selection to what farkles he hung on his bike?

It will be interesting to see if in the future anyone here who slagged Mike so bad ever has a big crash... Even more so if it gets caught on film.

So you tell me, Snake... Why do you think people here treated him so much different than those on the "other" forum?

Dallara



~

 

[roy]

I have the great Dallara on ignore for a reason.

The guy is full of himself, PERIOD

He always skirts around the net portraying himself as the great rider however that greatness stops at his driveway.

No one here blasted Mike, don't turn this into one of your usual rants of how you owned a dealership, rode the entire state of Texas naked or back flipped a Tenere one handed.

I've rode that road mike crashed on more times than anyone here I can assure you oh great Dallara. In to hot there is an understatement since the road pretty much can take anyone out with a Rumbux or without. But then again we need expert commentary from you to prove that.

I've said it a 100 times go get a life!! I flat avoid those threads on adv that you love to post in and chest thump. It's ridiculous what you post over there. You keep referring to how good a rider mike is but it almost sounds like you are talking about yourself which you do so much I guess it all runs together to some of us in the end.

Get a life dude and stop selling/promoting yourself in these forums trust me when I say its getting old and down right embarrising. ::007::

I stand by my previous post and I am sincerely glad mike walked away from the incident. There are many who do not walk away there.

 

[troll]

Maybe it was just the fact Mike is not a poster over here.
So you tell me, Snake... Why do you think people here treated him so much different than those on the "other" forum?

Dallara
~

Dallara you are such a passionate dude, I like that ::008:: I think you hit the nail on the head with the statement above. This forum group does not know "Mike". Tribes are like that. Folks from other tribes are always that - Folks from the other tribe. When I thought I was bad and rode a patch, if you were in, you were in... if you were out... well lets just say you were out no matter how nice a guy or gal you were. The same goes for so many subjects from guns to nationalities. Everyone usually sidewalk superintendents/Monday morning quarter-backs stuff they know little about. I do, you do, they do. Seems to be human nature.

I think we all hope "Mike" is OK and that he comes out of this situation well, both health wise and replacement of his motorcycle.

I think most of us have "crashed" and made mistakes in judgment throughout our riding careers no matter how skilled we think we are. I know I have because I was there when it happened. I personally hang my hat on one fundimental principle in order to learn from my mistakes. Unless there is some catastrophic failure of the machine... pilot error is pilot error.

"to error is human" none of us are perfect. Now lets send Mike some phat luv and have a group ::020::

 

[CDMartin884]

Bad day on the Dragon that's for sure, I am glad he came out of it safely, and has the photos for his posterity. As for "Monday morning quarterbacking," I haven't seen a great deal here on this forum, or in this thread, just some people get their proverbial panties in a twist because someone else posted an opinion they didn't agree with. It is the internet, and it is a forum, so what else is expected. Many who play on the internet discern their ability by their post count as opposed to their actual experience. : Accidents rarely occur because a person intended them to, because that is what people in the Accident Reconstruction business would call "Gross Negligence," and then its not an accident.

We all make decisions regarding where we ride, how we ride, how we train, what bikes we use, what farkels we employ and how they affect our bikes, and those decisions all encompass compromises. Combine those experiences, decisions, and compromises with environmental circumstances, and you have your recipe. What comes out the other side, whether it is success or disaster is directly proportionate to the choices that led up to the event. At that moment, when the event happens, a split section decision may or may not mitigate the outcome. Then there are those times, when no matter how well you have prepared, an unforeseen variable goes into the equation and that's Murphy. The best anybody can do is to try to mitigate a many of the variables that they can to give themselves the highest probability of success.

Every time we ride our bikes, we have to win the battle, the pavement only has to win once, and the pavement has a minion of variables.

 

[JJ Moto Addict]

Almost died on Friday,...again...
...only responded to the collapsing situation...
...remained calm & handled it with a slightly elevated heart rate.

But when you ride the Super T like an urban assault vehicle, only the extremes worry me.

This is life on the edge, far from invincible!

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I doubt the rider is at any fault here....

I suspect you've reconsidered this statement? I do that sometimes. Otherwise riding a motorcycle is far too dangerous for anyone. If a rider crashing on a clear day, on a clean dry road with no debris, on a bike with no sudden mechanical issues, and no outside force such as darting animal, falling tree, or hidden slippery spot, is not at fault, then no one is safe riding a motorcycle...period. In this unfortunately event the rider is the only one who could be at fault.

That does not make him a bad rider, or any other negative word about him. It makes him human. I bet we've all done things while riding that we later said, wow, that was a bad idea. But most of the time we all get away with it. Every once in a while, we don't. If you tell me Mike is a far better rider than me, I'll believe you. This incident doesn't change that assessment in any way. Great riders crash, too. It's a risk we all live with.

I'm glad he's fine and escaped serious injury. I'm also happy he's shared his experience so others can learn from what happened. People will be safer because he made a mistake, walked away, and shared the lesson. Thanks, Mike. I'm glad you're okay and will ride again.

 

[True Grip]

Good post dirt dad. No rhetoric just common sense and no finger pointing..

 

[Obrianmcc]

I suspect you've reconsidered this statement? I do that sometimes. Otherwise riding a motorcycle is far too dangerous for anyone. If a rider crashing on a clear day, on a clean dry road with no debris, on a bike with no sudden mechanical issues, and no outside force such as darting animal, falling tree, or hidden slippery spot, is not at fault, then no one is safe riding a motorcycle...period. In this unfortunately event the rider is the only one who could be at fault.

That does not make him a bad rider, or any other negative word about him. It makes him human. I bet we've all done things while riding that we later said, wow, that was a bad idea. But most of the time we all get away with it. Every once in a while, we don't. If you tell me Mike is a far better rider than me, I'll believe you. This incident doesn't change that assessment in any way. Great riders crash, too. It's a risk we all live with.

I'm glad he's fine and escaped serious injury. I'm also happy he's shared his experience so others can learn from what happened. People will be safer because he made a mistake, walked away, and shared the lesson. Thanks, Mike. I'm glad you're okay and will ride again.

Uh no, not really.... but to your point the statement was more that "I doubt he is a bad rider". I also surely doubt any one commenting on this subject has ever over cooked a corner, missed the apex, etc, etc.

::002::

 

[CDMartin884]

Every time we ride our bikes, we have to win the battle, the pavement only has to win once, and the pavement has a minion of variables, including the rider.

 

[snakebitten]

Uh no, not really.... but to your point the statement was more that "I doubt he is a bad rider". I also surely doubt any one commenting on this subject has ever over cooked a corner, missed the apex, etc, etc.

::002::

You should see the nicks, scars, battle wounds, and repair bills that make up my share (decades) of such ......um errors in judgment.

The worse run I had was a 2 year amateur era in IMCA modified. (Saturday night dirt car)
I think we added it up once and I averaged about $750 week in tires and crash repairs.
I mastered overcook and missed apexes. But it was so much fun!
(margin of error on 4 wheels for injury is far better than on 2)

Got a log in my eye. Won't be judging the stick in others. If you know what I mean.

 

[JJ Moto Addict]

...and the pavement has a minion of variables...

Those damn minions! ::005::

 

[pqsqac]

Elwood if you ever get the chance take a Lee Parks Total Control class and you will see what I mean. Awesome cornering skills are taught.

tell us what you think he did wrong and what you think is the correct way to enter the corner ::017::

 

[troll]

Those damn minions! ::005::

Once again JJ you make me LMAO ::025:: ::025:: ::025::

 

[Dallara]

Elwood if you ever get the chance take a Lee Parks Total Control class and you will see what I mean. Awesome cornering skills are taught.

But that's not an answer to his question... He asked what you thought he did wrong, and what you thought was the "correct way to enter the corner"...

Dallara



~

 

[tc9988]

Elwood if you ever get the chance take a Lee Parks Total Control class and you will see what I mean. Awesome cornering skills are taught.

Suggesting I take some course does not answer my original question. What do YOU think the rider did incorrectly. Maybe you have no idea.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Suggesting I take some course does not answer my original question. What do YOU think the rider did incorrectly. Maybe you have no idea.

I have to say that seems extraordinarily obvious. The rider clearly exceeded the lean limitations of the bike which were reduced due to accessories installed on the bike.

That said, I suspect I would have been equally ignorant to the new limitations of the bike if I had the same situation. If I crashed due to being ignorant of the bike's limitations that would be my mistake. Thankfully Mike shared his mistake with others so people with a similar setup will be less ignorant of the risks. More people are safer today because of this unfortunate incident, and happily the rider was not seriously hurt.

I have to admit I'm baffled why it is so impossible for some on this thread to accept that a good, maybe even a great rider made a mistake. Just about every champion racer has made a mistake that cost them dearly. These high level riders all freely admit they made a mistake. Lesser skilled riders point to them and say, they made a mistake. It doesn't take anything away from champion level rider. And it doesn't make the lesser skilled rider bad for pointing out they screwed up, and maybe learning something from it.

The attempted intimidation of trying to stop people from discussing mistakes because the one who made a mistake is beyond reproach is really disturbing and should not be accommodated. Pretending the rider has no blame and refusing to learn from this experience is folly

 

[scott123007]

Thank you for that, Dirt Dad. You and CDMartin both hit the nail on the head, and you're right about the denial for some to admit what was so clearly obvious. All I can figure is they are personal injury attorney's or were brought up to always find blame in everything but their self.

 

[MidlifeMotor]

Suggesting I take some course does not answer my original question. What do YOU think the rider did incorrectly. Maybe you have no idea.

Well I took the Total Control 1 and Total Control 2 courses and they were outstanding. I think the suggestion to you that you take the course was well intended and would shed light on what the rider "did wrong".

From my perspective, based on what I learned in TC2, the rider appears almost in a counter lean position, his weight shifted to the outside of the bike. Combined with too much lean, he dragged hard parts and ended up on the ground. The TC courses teach you to keep your head on the inside of the turn, transferring weight to the inside of the turn. This allows the rider to keep the bike in a more upright position which increases traction. By not leaning the bike all the way over, it allows for a margin of line adjustment by the rider should he need to alter his path.