For Safety's Sake.....

[creggur]

Mike, first off, glad you are okay! Speculation is gonna happen anytime a thread like this appears - my initial speculation was that you came into the corner too hot - didn't see poor body position or a bad line; though I did question the tire style (not the matching) for that kind of riding.

Looks like I was wrong all the way around. It's good to know that style of tire will stay hooked at those lean angles - others have said it, but I've never been bold enough to try it. Obviously the parts dragging so soon after the pegs caught you off guard, and it sucks you ended up the lean angle tester for that skid plate.

The best thing that can come from a thread like this is that we all learn something, and I know I certainly have! I appreciate you telling the whole story, and giving your impressions of what went wrong. Now, I see this as a rider's abilities surpassing the bike's limitations - again, something any Tenere owner can learn from.

Again, glad you walked away, and it was also nice to read how complete strangers went out of their way to help you out.

 

[True Grip]

Thanks for posting mike. The good thing is your ok and live to ride another day. You should post over here all the time I enjoy your trip reports and pics of you riding the nasty stuff that you put on the other forum. Most everybody who has ridden much knows what it feels like. I got a crashed Vfr in my shop my wife tells me to sell or part out but it reminds me I'm human. Your a good dude mike and like me a pretty good tumbler. Hope getting a new bike works out ok sounds like you have a good agent.

 

[MojoToot]

Thanks for that report, Mike. Glad you are ok!

I've just gotten my S10 and haven't pushed its limits yet...but from my experience on other bigger bikes (Yamaha FJR and Triumph Rocket III) Ihave learned that shifting body position inside the turn can really help cornering clearance.

I am 180lbs without gear on...so you are really a lightweight but for my weight, I have found that dragging a knee is not really needed to make an effective weight shift...

I have heard this technique described as "kissing the mirrors" for me it feels like a roll in saddle from butt cheek to butt cheek.

As opposed to just staying centered, it provides a weight shift, increases clearance and doesn't make you look like "racer boy".

 

[clint64]

Mike- First I am glad that you are ok. Thanks again for your report about the accident as it provides all of us some added prospective on the parts we add to our bikes and its effect on the bike. Take care.

 

[Checkswrecks]

As I and everybody's written, GLAD you are OK, even if it sux to lose the bike and have the experience.

I want to add a big thank you for posting up about your gear and how it protected you. That's good hard data!

Now as far as pieces off the bike . . .
8)

 

[EricV]

This is the new warning page that will go out with every 2-part and 3-part Rumbux kit I sell. This went up on the first post in my vendor thread, and the last post as of today. It's intended to make riders aware of the dangers, not scare them off the product. But I'm sure I'll lose a few customers because of it. At some point, every bike will drag hard parts, but I want people to understand the potential risks. Most Super Ten riders probably will never scrape pegs, but there certainly is a contingent that does. ::008::

*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****


Adding aftermarket accessories to your motorcycle can alter the ground clearance. You may need to adjust your riding style to avoid contact with the ground during aggressive cornering or on uneven ground.

*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****

When properly installed, this Rumbux Crash Bar will cause your Super Tenere to be wider and lower than prior to it's installation. Because of this, it is possible to contact the ground just after the left side footpeg feeler will scrape during high lean angle turns and before the center stand contacts on the right side. This can result in levering the rear wheel off the ground, and directly or indirectly cause a crash resulting in motorcycle damage, injury or death!

*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****

By installing this product you are accepting responsibility for your own actions!

EVal Innovations can not control how you ride. Please use caution until you understand if and how the installation of your new Rumbux crash bar system impacts your riding style.

EVal Innovations Inc. is not liable for injuries or damages resulting from crashes where the crash bars may have contacted the ground during riding. By installing Rumbux Adventure Products on your motorcycle, you implicitly accept these terms, and responsibility for your actions of choosing to install this product and choosing to ride in a manner which could cause motorcycle damage, injury or death.

*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****!Warning!*****

Motorcycling is an inherently dangerous activity. Please ride aware, ride safe and ride often.

Thank you for your purchase!
-------------------------------------

The actual page has the "warning!" in red, but yellow shows up better here.

 

[scott123007]

"and before the side stand contacts on the right side." Good info Eric, but the OCD in me must point out to you that it is the CENTER STAND that might grind on the right, not the SIDE STAND

 

[EricV]

"and before the side stand contacts on the right side." Good info Eric, but the OCD in me must point out to you that it is the CENTER STAND that might grind on the right, not the SIDE STAND

Thanks for catching that error. I will edit.

 

[cmastrom]

I changed out my factory pegs with the SW-MOTECH On-Road/Off-Road Rider Foot pegs they have the feeler for both sides having drug the left peg on the dragon with the OEM bags and OEM Bash plate but The Rumbux upper. If the guy who wrecked had had a feller on the right side he may have corrected in time so nothing would have drug this to me is a design flaw with the OEM pegs as well as a safety hazard even though the Rumbux bash plate appears to have touched as the peg did almost simultaneously to reiterate had there been a decent feeler he may have corrected and the bash plate or the bags would probably never have touched. Thanks Eric for my rumbux it is the bomb period......

 

[creggur]

Still don't understand why Yamaha didn't put a peg feeler on that side.

 

[EricV]

Still don't understand why Yamaha didn't put a peg feeler on that side.

Probably the same guy that convinced them it was a good idea to eliminate the flash to pass and 4 way flashers for US/CAN bikes. Save pennies, throw metric buttloads of cash out the window.

 

[Dallara]

~


Just as an FYI...

The Super Tenere wouldn't have a a peg feeler on the left side if it wasn't for the fact that it didn't the centerstand tang would touch down before the peg. On the right side nothing touches down before the folding peg so there is no need for the feeler bolt ***as long as the bike is stock or uses Yamaha's own accessory "skid plate" (and I use that term loosely describing it, as it's really only good for "show")***

If the bike is stock having a peg feeler bolt would serve no purpose other than to reduce cornering clearance and have the peg fold much earlier than it needs to. If you want a right side peg feeler bolt it's easy to do. Just buy a left side one and install it in the right side.

In fact, EricV... It might be a good idea for you to include one of those when you sell and ship a RumBux plate set-up. Just a thought.

Dallara









p.s. - BTW, it sure is nice to see how all the second guessing, style critiquing, skill-level questioning, etc. suddenly all died down as soon as Mikef5000 posted here himself...

~

 

[autoteach]

~


p.s. - BTW, it sure is nice to see how all the second guessing, style critiquing, skill-level questioning, etc. suddenly all died down as soon as Mikef5000 posted here himself...

~

I am not sure if it was that or the incessant ranting by a few that drove them off. I would wager that they probably are still feeling the same way about riding style (leaning off bike) but not willing to argue with a few folks that don't believe in it or science (you would have to disregard science, or more exactly physics, to believe it wouldn't help). I hope this clarifies why people are no longer commenting on it.

 

[Dallara]

I am not sure if it was that or the incessant ranting by a few that drove them off. I would wager that they probably are still feeling the same way about riding style (leaning off bike) but not willing to argue with a few folks that don't believe in it or science (you would have to disregard science, or more exactly physics, to believe it wouldn't help). I hope this clarifies why people are no longer commenting on it.

Wow, and here I was thinking it was that folks had simply decided to finally have the good manners and common sense to accept the word of the one experienced, knowledgeable, and skilled rider who was actually there at the scene of the incident...

You know the same one who said...



"My body position was perfectly upright, which I consider 'normal' for this type of bike. I feel a little silly hanging off like a racer, considering the size/nature of this beast. Hindsight; it may have helped... it may not have... who knows... probably should have tried eh?!...

...Twisties... I've driven and ridden that road dozens of times. I've got some killer in car video from a previous highly built car, as well as racer-boy knee dragging KillBoy shots from previous bikes. This time I simply pushed this bike further than it could go. Actually yeah... I simply pushed this bike further than it could go. That about sums this entire thing up pretty damn well if I do say so myself!...

...But also, I'm not a fan of changing my riding style. I like to push things fairly hard. And when my own personal limits are set pretty dang high, and I decide to go push things, once in a very long while, it doesn't end well. This one ended pretty horrifically for the bike. First time for everything I guess..."



But how the hell could he know nearly as much as some of those folks who were only looking at a few low-resolution digital images? After all, his actually being there, on-site, riding the bike itself, and experiencing the road conditions, etc., etc. couldn't be nearly as valid a viewpoint, could it?

Guess I must be the fool of the bunch to accept him at his word, eh?

Dallara



~

 

[autoteach]

Wow, and here I was thinking it was that folks had simply decided to finally have the good manners and common sense to accept the word of the one experienced, knowledgeable, and skilled rider who was actually there at the scene of the incident...

You know the same one who said...



"My body position was perfectly upright, which I consider 'normal' for this type of bike. I feel a little silly hanging off like a racer, considering the size/nature of this beast. Hindsight; it may have helped... it may not have... who knows... probably should have tried eh?!...

...Twisties... I've driven and ridden that road dozens of times. I've got some killer in car video from a previous highly built car, as well as racer-boy knee dragging KillBoy shots from previous bikes. This time I simply pushed this bike further than it could go. Actually yeah... I simply pushed this bike further than it could go. That about sums this entire thing up pretty damn well if I do say so myself!...

...But also, I'm not a fan of changing my riding style. I like to push things fairly hard. And when my own personal limits are set pretty dang high, and I decide to go push things, once in a very long while, it doesn't end well. This one ended pretty horrifically for the bike. First time for everything I guess..."



But how the hell could he know nearly as much as some of those folks who were only looking at a few low-resolution digital images? After all, his actually being there, on-site, riding the bike itself, and experiencing the road conditions, etc., etc. couldn't be nearly as valid a viewpoint, could it?

Guess I must be foolish to accept his word, eh?

Dallara



~

Dallara, you SOB, I didn't know that you were trolling. Shit, had I known I would have just let your passive aggressive jab sit there. While we are here pissing and moaning, let it be established that there is a distinct difference between good manners and common sense, one of which you have argued against throughout this thread and the other which you demonstrated that you don't hold to any higher a degree then those suggesting solutions. How is that for manners?

 

[Dallara]

Dallara, you SOB, I didn't know that you were trolling. Shit, had I known I would have just let your passive aggressive jab sit there. While we are here pissing and moaning, let it be established that there is a distinct difference between good manners and common sense, one of which you have argued against throughout this thread and the other which you demonstrated that you don't hold to any higher a degree then those suggesting solutions. How is that for manners?

I never argued against anything other than there were sure a lot of folks making heaps of assumptions without any real data... And I was never one who questioned Mikef5000's skill level, line selection, riding style, cornering prowess, etc., etc., etc.

Common sense suggests it would be rather farcical and ludicrous for anyone to question what the rider did in that situation with nothing more than a few low-resolution pics to go on. Equally, good manners suggests it would be better not to question the rider's skill level, line selection, body positioning, etc., etc., etc. until you hear what he has to say about what the actual conditions were at the time of the incident.

Funny, isn't it how so many were quick to suggest all sorts of things about what happened before Mikef5000 chimed in here, but once he spoke up not one single person has made any one of those same allegations directly to him, now have they? Why is that?

Dallara




p.s. - Of course, now - suddenly - it's becoming Yamaha's fault for not putting a peg feeler bolt on the right footpeg! After all, they should'a known those pesky South Africans were gonna' make those RumBux skid plates, right?
~

 

[Firefight911]

Oh yes it is certainly the bike's fault. Ugh.

Oh, yes, let's not adjust one's riding style to the conditions presented. Oh, no, we wouldn't want to do that.

Oh, no, we certainly wouldn't want to look "silly" by adjusting our body positioning. After all, it's looks that count while riding......oh wait, he fell off his bike. Now that's silly.

Yo, Indy car, it's the rider's fault plain and simple. I don't care if we are talking rookie, pro, Alonso, Bourdais, Vettel, Massa, Mansell, Kyle Busch, or Will Power. The solo crashing of a motorcycle is the fault of the rider.

If the same rider attributes it all to his stubbornness to adapt, adjust, or realize he is riding a bike outside of its design envelope then invariably he'll do it again. Lets just hope a rider isn't coming the opposite direction next time. We'll see how smug he is about his silly appearance then. Maybe we'll see how you spin his prowess as well.

You two married?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk which means there are more than likely spelling errors!

 

[MeefZah]

This is the new warning page that will go out with every 2-part and 3-part Rumbux kit I sell ....cut.... The actual page has the "warning!" in red, but yellow shows up better here.

Have you discussed this with your lawyers... or as a small shop, do you even have lawyers / a lawyer? How about your insurance company?

The thing about disclaimers, and even signed liability waivers, is that they won't insulate you from a lawsuit. As noted above, anyone can sue for anything. In fact, specifying that you are aware of the potential for a crash and are still selling the product might even be viewed as a disregard for the safety of your customers, which could potentially result in larger damages if you ever are sued successfully.

I'm by no means a lawyer, but I've been sued several times (in Federal Court, at that), and the shit that the lawyers spin is mind blowing.

I totally agree that our society is a bunch of sue-happy pussies, but I think knowing that in advance, you should prepare for the inevitable lawsuit.

 

[Nframe]

This.

Have you discussed this with your lawyers... or as a small shop, do you even have lawyers / a lawyer? How about your insurance company?

The thing about disclaimers, and even signed liability waivers, is that they won't insulate you from a lawsuit. As noted above, anyone can sue for anything. In fact, specifying that you are aware of the potential for a crash and are still selling the product might even be viewed as a disregard for the safety of your customers, which could potentially result in larger damages if you ever are sued successfully.

I'm by no means a lawyer, but I've been sued several times (in Federal Court, at that), and the shit that the lawyers spin is mind blowing.

I totally agree that our society is a bunch of sue-happy pussies, but I think knowing that in advance, you should prepare for the inevitable lawsuit.

Be very careful how you word your warning.

 

[Checkswrecks]

. . .
Common sense suggests it would be rather farcical and ludicrous for anyone to question what the rider did in that situation with nothing more than a few low-resolution pics to go on. . . . .
Dallara
. . ..

OK, I've been silent since making an early photo-based post and you are flat wrong in using the word "anyone."


Police and accident investigators are trained to do with a lot less and do it regularly. Most non-investigators are amazed at how much detail can be found in a skid mark, the amount of deflection of a tire profile, or the direction which flying stones and debris take.


The hard part is to NOT add to what is in the photo. You may find that's more the aspect that you are driving at.






Regardless, Mike posted a great and thoughtful account and imho it's time to let this one fade.