A More Affordable Flash Option?

[avc8130]

Do you do anything specific tuning for bikes that have full exhaust/upgraded intake?

Not at this time. Yamaha's fueling is pretty complex, and I've been struggling to make a solution I am personally happy enough with to set others up with. So far, no matter what I have tried, I cannot 100% eliminate surging at low rpm/throttle.

Do you currently have a PCV?

ac

 

[Rasher]

So far, no matter what I have tried, I cannot 100% eliminate surging at low rpm/throttle.

On my Gen UCU-U Flash (supposedly for a Full System) there was some surging around 1900 - 2100 rpm on a steady throttle - not somewhere you ride much, but a bit annoying when it did happen (normally trickling along in traffic) and I had to use third to cruise at 30mph - it would hold 30 OK in 4th, but if the traffic slowed to 27-28 then it would start to surge. In all honesty it was ten times better than running a full system with no Flash as it used to behave much worse.

What I have done is unplugged the O2 sensors on mine, according to ECU-U their Flash utilises the sensors if they are there, but will happily run without them, with them unplugged the surge almost entirely goes away, you can still get it to happen, but almost have to go looking for it.

In theory the MPG will drop a bit, but mine picked up 4-5mpg with the Flash, and having done a couple of thousand miles with them unplugged I think it is definitely better than stock on MPG, it could be 1-2 mpg less than with the sensors plugged in but as I am having trouble telling it obviously is not much worse (my guess is the sensors help most at a steady cruise so maybe I have dropped a couple of MPG on long straight roads) either way I still have a bit more power, much better low down drive and still get more mpg than in stock trim so all is good.

I also have some O2 eliminators, but have not got around to trying them, my guess is these will force the bike into running a fair bit richer in the closed loop area, but I suspect it may cure the surge at the expense of more than 1-2 mpg.

I have also not messed with the CO settings or tried the Air Screw - I assume you would have already been down this path and therefore it will not hold the answer.


My ECU-U dealer believes with the Arrow headers there is not enough gas near the O2 sensors at very low loads for it to pick up a proper reading, however in this case I would expect unplugging them as I have would have solved it if the "default" map was good.


I also assume the way things work with the ECU software you cannot just "chuck" a load of extra fuel in at 5% throttle

 

[avc8130]

Exactly, like I said, can't "100%" eliminate it. I'm not really interested on claiming the map is for a full system, unless it actually WORKS.

I'll sort it out, eventually. I finally have some of the tools I needed to start (2 channel AutoTune).

If you understood how Yamaha fuels this bike, you would see why it isn't as simple as it seems.

Get your buddy to hack your ECU and see if you can sort it for the EU guys!

ac

 

[Brick]

Ok I've been traveling so not reading this but I may need to talk with AC... I think the T on this 2014ES is great... Perhaps I'm just not used to the S mode yet??? Seems to not have any engine braking... I like engine braking. I like a twin! AC what do you say? Open it up a bit but put some engine braking in??? Possible?


Brick

 

[avc8130]

Ok I've been traveling so not reading this but I may need to talk with AC... I think the T on this 2014ES is great... Perhaps I'm just not used to the S mode yet??? Seems to not have any engine braking... I like engine braking. I like a twin! AC what do you say? Open it up a bit but put some engine braking in??? Possible?


Brick

WOW! I think you are correct. I can't believe Yamaha changed that so much.

I can most certainly take a stab at making it feel more like a 2012/13.

ac

 

[fredz43]

Ok I've been traveling so not reading this but I may need to talk with AC... I think the T on this 2014ES is great... Perhaps I'm just not used to the S mode yet??? Seems to not have any engine braking... I like engine braking. I like a twin! AC what do you say? Open it up a bit but put some engine braking in??? Possible?

Brick

Brick, you recently rode my bike with the Gen2 flash. Do you recall how the engine braking was on it compared to your 14?

 

[Magilla]

WOW! I think you are correct. I can't believe Yamaha changed that so much.

I can most certainly take a stab at making it feel more like a 2012/13.

ac

I sent you a PM.

 

[Brick]

Fredz43 yes I did ride your bike with the Gen2 reflash but I kept rolling into corners way too fast without the engine braking I am used to. I'm on this long trip and at this point not really using the S mode much. However I am just now getting across the plains to the Rockies... Much more testing will happen. I may find that I like less engine braking after a day or two? I doubt that I would go to the trouble to make it like the 2012.
AC thanks for the reply!


Brick

 

[avc8130]

Fredz43 yes I did ride your bike with the Gen2 reflash but I kept rolling into corners way too fast without the engine braking I am used to. I'm on this long trip and at this point not really using the S mode much. However I am just now getting across the plains to the Rockies... Much more testing will happen. I may find that I like less engine braking after a day or two? I doubt that I would go to the trouble to make it like the 2012.
AC thanks for the reply!


Brick

Brick,

It's really no trouble on your part. A few mouse clicks and key strokes on mine and it could be very similar to your 12.

ac

 

[avc8130]

On the topic of 14s...

The 14 ECU has been hacked. I have the file, I can see "inside" the ECU.

With that, I need some help from the 14 riders to learn what needs changing.

I have loaded the trottle and decel maps onto my 12 test mule. It seems like T is lethargic an muted just like it was on the 12s. S mode feels better, but I am getting a pretty twitchy on/off throttle. I can't say for certain these are "typical" as I just loaded the maps into a bike they don't belong in.

I also noticed Yamaha was able to put a bit more timing advance in. It will be interesting to hear how the mechanical changes to the motor handle the extra advance and REGULAR fuel.

ac

 

[martin_nj]

I also noticed Yamaha was able to put a bit more timing advance in. It will be interesting to hear how the mechanical changes to the motor handle the extra advance and REGULAR fuel.

1. Yamaha is OK with regular in the '14s?

2. Mechanical changes to the motor - I've only read about the exhaust ports and new headers... Anything else change?

 

[avc8130]

1. Yamaha is OK with regular in the '14s?

2. Mechanical changes to the motor - I've only read about the exhaust ports and new headers... Anything else change?

No, I believe Yamaha states that PREMIUM is required. However, many 12/13 owners run regular and claim no ill effects.

ac

 

[fredz43]

Fredz43 yes I did ride your bike with the Gen2 reflash but I kept rolling into corners way too fast without the engine braking I am used to. I'm on this long trip and at this point not really using the S mode much. However I am just now getting across the plains to the Rockies... Much more testing will happen. I may find that I like less engine braking after a day or two?

Brick

Brick, just to clarify, are you saying that you noticed less engine braking on mine just like on your 14? I ask because after riding my gen2 flash for some time and really enjoying the improved roll on performance and general engine character that it provided, I thought that I noticed that it had less engine braking. As I read more discussions on the subject, I believe that is true. I also enjoy some engine braking, such as on my 996 Super Hawk twin, but if the gen 2 flash has decreased it, I guess I have gotten used to it and have no problem.

I switched bikes with another forum member a few days ago so that he could experience the flash. If I had thought of it, I would have paid more attention to the engine braking on his stock bike. As it was I was paying more attention to the lackluster roll on and general lack of what I will call character of the stock engine.

I will admit that in some of my earlier posts on this forum back in the early days, I am one that did not believe that the USA bikes had throttle restrictions, as my bike ran perfectly. I was wrong. I am sure that if I got a new 2012-2013, the first thing I would do is get a reflash. I can't speak for the 14's as I haven't ridden one.

 

[avc8130]

Brick, just to clarify, are you saying that you noticed less engine braking on mine just like on your 14? I ask because after riding my gen2 flash for some time and really enjoying the improved roll on performance and general engine character that it provided, I thought that I noticed that it had less engine braking. As I read more discussions on the subject, I believe that is true. I also enjoy some engine braking, such as on my 996 Super Hawk twin, but if the gen 2 flash has decreased it, I guess I have gotten used to it and have no problem.

I switched bikes with another forum member a few days ago so that he could experience the flash. If I had thought of it, I would have paid more attention to the engine braking on his stock bike. As it was I was paying more attention to the lackluster roll on and general lack of what I will call character of the stock engine.

I will admit that in some of my earlier posts on this forum back in the early days, I am one that did not believe that the USA bikes had throttle restrictions, as my bike ran perfectly. I was wrong. I am sure that if I got a new 2012-2013, the first thing I would do is get a reflash. I can't speak for the 14's as I haven't ridden one.

The 14s still have throttle restrictions, but they are less significant in S mode than on the 12/13. T mode is still neutered.

ac

 

[avc8130]

FYSA:

I will be unable to flash ECUs between June 20 and June 27. If you are planning to send me an ECU, take this into account for scheduling.

ac

 

[KCW]

For what it's worth, I had my bike flashed, and it was a disappointment. Not something that I would do again.
After the flash, there was a change, but I would not call it an improvement, and I wouldn't do the flash again, given a choice.
IMO, the flash is something that people believe is better in their mind, and convince themselves of such. Yes it pulls more in gears 1-2-3, but it's different, not necessarily better.

 

[avc8130]

For what it's worth, I had my bike flashed, and it was a disappointment. Not something that I would do again.
After the flash, there was a change, but I would not call it an improvement, and I wouldn't do the flash again, given a choice.
IMO, the flash is something that people believe is better in their mind, and convince themselves of such. Yes it pulls more in gears 1-2-3, but it's different, not necessarily better.

Did I flash it?

ac

 

[mbabc]

For what it's worth, I had my bike flashed, and it was a disappointment. Not something that I would do again.
After the flash, there was a change, but I would not call it an improvement, and I wouldn't do the flash again, given a choice.
IMO, the flash is something that people believe is better in their mind, and convince themselves of such. Yes it pulls more in gears 1-2-3, but it's different, not necessarily better.

I call this post as I see it and I call troll.

There is a noticeable improvement over the stock maps.

 

[HDFlyer76]

I rode two 2013’s this week, one stock and my flash by AC. I will tell you the difference is signifiant Anyone who comments the flash makes no difference doesn't have any feeling in their bottom as it related to acceleration. I had AC reduce the engine braking just a little bit and I could tell from riding one bike and then the other. My flash pulls right off the bottom, whereas I almost stalled the stock bike because of the lack power power off idle. If anyone challenges AC the only thing I can say is he is a class act that made my bike more fun that I could have imagined. This week I leave California for Colorado and I look forward to more fun this year than the same trip a year ago, before the flash. Any questions in your mind on a flash, go for it, you will never regret it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[scott123007]

For what it's worth, I had my bike flashed, and it was a disappointment. Not something that I would do again.
After the flash, there was a change, but I would not call it an improvement, and I wouldn't do the flash again, given a choice.
IMO, the flash is something that people believe is better in their mind, and convince themselves of such. Yes it pulls more in gears 1-2-3, but it's different, not necessarily better.

It sounds like it is more bike than you need in the first place, so just giving it a little more of everything is overkill for you.