Will you take the vaccine

will you take the vaccine

  • yes

    Votes: 91 37.0%
  • no

    Votes: 24 9.8%
  • maybe later

    Votes: 21 8.5%
  • heck no

    Votes: 30 12.2%
  • BTDT - Got the shot

    Votes: 80 32.5%

  • Total voters
    246
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Quique

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
205
Location
Guadalajara Spain
WJBertrand, thanks for your support. Coming from a colleague it's very appreciated.
fac191, Although you might be right, and very likely you are, I do no want that guys like the wild one with horns who broke into the Capitol dictate our lives. They are trying to divide the society in two and provoke a fight. I will do my best to prevent this and the only way that I can see to do it is dialogue. Avoid provocations and give peace a chance. Naive? maybe.
 

pooh and xtine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2014
Messages
293
Location
UK
I did not share that to garner sympathy. I did it to demonstrate that there is another side of this story that many here will simply not acknowledge at any level. The Covid 19 response has been horrible in its incompetent and corrupt implementation of draconian lock downs and medical mistakes. The vaccine is just one small piece of this terrible destruction of human rights and lives.
Sadly, Covid has shown how dumb the human race is. Anyone who died within 28 days of having tested positive for covid was recorded as a “covid death”, which was then interpreted as having died from covid. Using the same logic, any of the vaccinated billions who die within 28 days of having had a dose of the vaccine have died from the covid vaccine (which would be vastly more). Remember correlation and causation from basic ststistics?
 

Quique

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
205
Location
Guadalajara Spain
AZMike,
How exactly did your sister died? Why do you think that her death was related with the vaccine? Saying "after" is not enough. You can be hit by a car after the vaccine and you cannot blame the vaccine for that. Letting your sister apart, I will say something about how a vaccine is tested.
A vaccine is tested first in animals, then in a small number of people, then in a bigger group pf people, usually around one thousand before launching it. We can't test a vaccine in millions, because this is not a test but a massive vaccination. If there is a secondary effect, even death, in let's say, one case per million of vaccines, it is very unlikely that this effect shows up in a test with one thousand. It's one probability in one thousand to appear, very unlikely, so we just don't know. But we know that it is safe enough.
When any secondary effect shows up, a research is done and the necessary amendments are taken. This applies to every medicine of any kind.
I will go further. Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that we knew in advance that one person per million will die for the vaccine. Even in this case I will had given a "go ahead" with the vaccination. It's one against thousands of saved lives, a destroyed economy and the people locked down.

I know that there are anti vaccines people, same as I know that there are people who think that the Earth is flat or people who think that the Virgin Mary got pregnant by a pigeon. It's ok to me, everyone can believe what they want. But not every opinion deserves the same acknowledgement. I know what a vaccine is and you don't. I don't know what your area of expertise is, but I know that you like guns. I know nothing about guns, I have not touched a gun in my life. Therefore my opinion about guns cannot be considered equal as yours because I have no clue.

Look out the window. The people are living their normal lives. It could had been very different if the science had not respond in such a quick and effective manner to the disease. This disease was new, we knew nothing about it on the beginning and all of a sudden, the hospitals were full of people. They have identify the virus, analyzed it and created a vaccine in a year. Outstanding! For any other disease, this would had taken years. This means lots of hard work 24/7. My colleagues deserve a clap and some respect.
There is more to say. I remember the picture of the Italian team who first unveiled the genetic code of the virus. Women all of them, some very young, in full smiles of pride and happiness how not? well, these young scientists are earning around 1000 euros a month with a temporary contract. They might be unemployed right now. I think that the society should treat the scientists a bit better.

Corruption. This is up to the politicians. Yes, there is a case in Madrid that I could speak about. Nothing generalized.

Yes, the lock down is horrible, but necessary. Otherwise we would had counted many more deaths. And yes, it goes against human rights, but life is the first right. Everything was done accordingly to our constitution and watched by the Parliament and courts. It was well done. There was no other option.
 

Sierra1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
15,196
Location
Joshua TX
. . . . Anyone who died within 28 days of having tested positive for covid was recorded as a “covid death”. . . .
Sorta the same thing as dying from a car crash. In Texas, if you're involved in a car crash and die before 31 days, it's from the crash. But if you make it to 32 days, apparently it's something else. Of course, that's according to TxDOT.
 

AZMike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
338
Location
Tucson, AZ
"Yes, the lock down is horrible, but necessary. Otherwise we would had counted many more deaths " No they were not and the toll they have taken on this world and our children is unfathomable.

Way too many in the medical profession, especially that War Criminal Fauci made a fortune on this. If you think this was as best as we could have done, well I got nothing for you.
 

Sierra1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
15,196
Location
Joshua TX
Yeah, I agree with you and Kid Rock on that . . . . Fauci sucks. From day one, when everybody was nominating him from sainthood, there was something about him I didn't trust. Had plenty of debates with the wife about him.
 

Sierra1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
15,196
Location
Joshua TX
Just saw this article: BQ.1.1 is among the most immune-evasive COVID variants yet. It’s coming in hot in the U.S. (msn.com)

Depending on the veracity of information source(s), this could be an issue. I can't help but wonder of its intent to scare people into getting the Omicron tweaked booster. I believe at this point, people are either going to continue updating their boosters . . . . or they're not. If this forum is any indication, nobody's changing their, or anybody else's, mind; for or against.

I got my booster Thursday @ 1pm-ish. So far, absolutely no symptoms/reactions other than "injection site soreness". No aches/pains or anything else. Yet?
 

Quique

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
205
Location
Guadalajara Spain
Somehow you are right. In Spain, we had a long, strict lock down. I can tell the results of the lock down but I cannot say what if would had happened if we would not have had that lock down. Only imagine it. The fact is that the bend went strongly down. Much less cases, deaths, etc. I think that it is not absurd to imagine that, without the lock down, the numbers would have rise more and more until who knows what. And yes, it has been tough for children and young people, but becoming orphans is worse.
Be kind to me. I am Spanish and live in Spain. I had no idea who Fauci was. I've gone to the wikipedia to learn something about him. This time it's me who is talking about something that I really don't know so excuse my mistakes. Lucky me, we have a similar figure, Fernando Simón, who said about the same things as Fauci, and was criticized for about the same reasons so I could make an idea myself.
First when I come across a well educated person with a long curriculum I tend to trust and distrust those who are aliens to science but know everything all of a sudden.
An earlier response. Yes, that would had been good. But you must consider the circumstances. New warnings of viruses, bactheria and all sort of creatures are coming every day. You cannot be alarming the population every day. We had the precedent of the avian flu also from China that became nothing after the alarm and the money spent in unnecessary vaccines. And this time it was for real. Finally, it's a single person who must decides, warn the politicians, make a decission... it takes time. It was a 15 days mistake that led to more deaths, but hell it is difficult to be so accurate. I made the same mistake when asked, I gave no importance to this virus and I think that if you ask, 90% of the scientists would had agreed at that time.
The masks. This virus is new. We have learnt all about it in a short time, but on the beginning, nobody knew exactly the way of transmission. So first it's a recommendation then mandatory when we knew for certain that it was transmitted by the air. We have been learning along the time while we had the hospitals full of patients and giving advice to the people at he same time. On the other hand, there were no masks, no ventilators, it was chaos.

For not to be long, yes, there have been mistakes. But the top one of the mistakes is Trump's bleach and the top two goes for the president of Mexico, who said that the Mexicans were protected for the Virgen de Guadalupe and no further measures were needed.
 

Mak10

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Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
2,567
Location
SE Idaho
So how many of you are standing in line to get the J&J shot?

Why not?

And why were vaccinated people's allowed to attend sporting event, travel, not wear masks when they could still be infected with the virus and spread covid?
 

Sierra1

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Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
15,196
Location
Joshua TX
What does "Trumps bleach" mean?
There's a video of him saying something about using bleach, internally, to prevent covid. Me . . . . having enough common sense . . . . watched the video, and did think that he meant it as a serious option. Others disagree, and have ran with it. And this is about as far as this conversation is allowed to go.
 

regder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
466
Location
Toronno
the president of Mexico, who said that the Mexicans were protected for the Virgen de Guadalupe and no further measures were needed.
Somewhat relevant, I spent four months in Mexico last winter. Was amazed at how everyone wore masks everywhere, at all times. Mask under their helmets when on a bike, masks in their car, masks walking the dog. The few conversations I had about Covid with locals seemed pretty dire. Everyone had a relative or friend (mostly multiples) that died.
 

Quique

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
205
Location
Guadalajara Spain
So how many of you are standing in line to get the J&J shot?

Why not?

And why were vaccinated people's allowed to attend sporting event, travel, not wear masks when they could still be infected with the virus and spread covid?
hey Mak,
I guess that you are referring to the thrombosis issue. This is a secondary effect for all covid vaccines, not only the J&J. Most of what I have to say about this, I have said it before so I will be brief.
This is a rare secondary effect with an incidence of one case per between 125000 - 1M vaccines. Therefore it cannot be detected prior to the launching. The symptoms are identified and there is a treatment. You should be warned when taking the vaccine "if you feel this or that go to the doctor" and the doctors know what to do. It is treatable. The benefits are much bigger that the risks, so the vaccine is still authorized.

How many times do I need to say it? being infected and having covid is not the same thing. You are infected when one single virus enters into your body. You have the disease when this virus manage to replicate so many times and therefore killing too many cells to cause you a health problem. The cells die and born constantly. A few cells dead is not a problem. The problem is many cells dead. If both, vaccinated or unvaccinated can be infected, what's the difference? TIME OF RESPONSE A vaccinated person responds to the virus fast and gets no covid or a very light version of it. Then it can spread the virus for a short time, possibly days. A non vaccinated person responds slowly, gets no covid, or a light or hard version of it and stays with the virus for a long period of time, then spreading it for a long time, possibly months. When you are relaxing the anti covid measures who do you release first? the vaccinated people obviously.
 

Sierra1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
15,196
Location
Joshua TX
. . . . You are infected when one single virus enters into your body. You have the disease when this virus manage to replicate so many times and therefore killing too many cells to cause you a health problem. The cells die and born constantly. A few cells dead is not a problem. The problem is many cells dead. If both, vaccinated or unvaccinated can be infected, what's the difference? TIME OF RESPONSE A vaccinated person responds to the virus fast and gets no covid or a very light version of it. Then it can spread the virus for a short time, possibly days. A non vaccinated person responds slowly, gets no covid, or a light or hard version of it and stays with the virus for a long period of time, then spreading it for a long time, possibly months. When you are relaxing the anti covid measures who do you release first? the vaccinated people obviously.
Ok, this makes more sense. 'Cuz, I was with Mak as far as wondering why vaccinated people didn't have to follow protocols although they could still spread. They can, but not in the same way as unvaccinated person. I just figured it was a ploy to get everybody vaxed.
 
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