Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - re-done

Tobers

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
37
Location
Guildford, UK
An enterprising person could make a number of differently shaped throttle cams to replace the original one. This could effectively alter the gearing on the throttle mechanism to make the throttle response faster or slower. The alternative is to tweak the fly by wire mapping which might be easier.
 

Tremor38

All roads fair game...all game outta the way!
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
2,562
Location
Aomori, Japan
Tobers said:
An enterprising person could make a number of differently shaped throttle cams to replace the original one. This could effectively alter the gearing on the throttle mechanism to make the throttle response faster or slower. The alternative is to tweak the fly by wire mapping which might be easier.
Maybe the aftermarket will finally develope to the point where we get that.
 

Tobers

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
37
Location
Guildford, UK
Just back from a couple of hours on the bike on the motorway and around town. The bike is transformed!! It is so much more controllable and easy to ride. Whoop!
 

toompine

New Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
657
Location
Sacramento, ca
Tobers said:
Just back from a couple of hours on the bike on the motorway and around town. The bike is transformed!! It is so much more controllable and easy to ride. Whoop!
Given that you are in the UK is there anyway you can quantify the springs you bought? Where did you find them and how were they specified (size, wire diameter, spring strength). I really want to do the mod but wondeed how I might source the same thing here in the States
 

Tobers

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
37
Location
Guildford, UK
Hi there - I ended up tweaking the original spring rather than using the replacements I had purchased as I couldn't get any with a thin enough gauge with the inside diameter as wide as I wanted.

However, if you want a look at where I bought the replacements, and to get an idea how a torsion spring is specified, look here, and slide the sliders to get their choice of parts.

http://www.assocspring.co.uk/p/18/torsion_springs-stainless_steel/

If you hover over the small thumbnail pics to the right of the main diagram on the page you'll get all the various measurements for the chart they have lower down.

The original spring spec is as close as I can get it:

- wire thickness (d) 1.6mm
- spring outside diameter (Do) 22mm. You could go bigger, but don't go smaller.
- width (A) 20mm
- left handed (very important!!)





The original spring has a 360 degree bend in it. Following my fiddling, I suggest a 270 degree bend. You'll form a hook from one of the ends to catch on the tang on the throttle pulley. As the width of the spring will be too wide anyway, you'll end up cutting the spring to make it narrower so you can form your own free end at whatever angle you like.



The Associated Spring part number of the closest one to the original is T070360546L which is: d = 1.78mm, Do = 21.41mm, A = 24mm. It might be that T078360578L is a better bet, as it has a larger diameter but is wider at A = 28.73, but you'd cut it down anyway. Both have thicker wire than the original, but it's the angle of the ends and therefore the preload that has a greater impact.

If you could find someone who does the same diameter and width as the original, but from thinner wire you'd be laughing.
 

SuperJimbo

Ride there....
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
189
Location
NE TX.
Do I win a prize for resurrecting a old thread on this one? This is something I do intend to get into on my S10 in due time. One of the things that has my curiosity going about all this (as I am a convert from FJR ownership), in my dealings with addressing this same issue sucessfully on the FJR with the 'throttle spring unwind', there was also the G2 throttle tube that corrects the geometry of the pull rate on the cables. The cable/housing setup on the S10 does look rather similar to the one used on the Gen2 FJR.... curious if the G2 tube would be compatible with the S10 setup? It would seem that there is a possible opportunity for exploration here, unless someone has already taken the time to do so.
::26::
 

Dallara

Creaks When Walks
Founding Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
2,195
Location
South Texas
SuperJimbo said:
Do I win a prize for resurrecting a old thread on this one? This is something I do intend to get into on my S10 in due time. One of the things that has my curiosity going about all this (as I am a convert from FJR ownership), in my dealings with addressing this same issue sucessfully on the FJR with the 'throttle spring unwind', there was also the G2 throttle tube that corrects the geometry of the pull rate on the cables. The cable/housing setup on the S10 does look rather similar to the one used on the Gen2 FJR.... curious if the G2 tube would be compatible with the S10 setup? It would seem that there is a possible opportunity for exploration here, unless someone has already taken the time to do so.
::26::

G2 makes a throttle tube with a revised cam profile for the Super Tenere - http://www.g2ergo.com/store/g2-street-tamer-throttle-tube/

Dallara


~
 

avc8130

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,269
Location
North NJ
Dallara said:
G2 makes a throttle tube with a revised cam profile for the Super Tenere - http://www.g2ergo.com/store/g2-street-tamer-throttle-tube/

Dallara


~
Or pick up a Flash Tune ECU harness and use the electronic throttle to program in any type of throttle response you would like.

I went the other route with my bike and made my throttle 1/5 turn instead of the stock 1/4 turn.

With the access to the ECU, the possibilities are endless.

ac
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
Global Moderator
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
11,559
Location
Damascus, MD
In the US, I found that some Ace Hardware stores have a selection of these torsion springs and you can choose your stiffness.
 

SuperJimbo

Ride there....
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
189
Location
NE TX.
Appreciate the input here, folks. Now to assimilate and then decisions, decisions! Looks like the Gen2 Ecu unleashed is on tap for sure but as far as the Sumo-throttle is concerned, I assume that surgery is about the only cure for that? From the thread here, Im not 100% sure if Tobers was sure the replacement was really the way to go or the modded stock spring. I AM sure that something is going to be done to address that issue on my scooter! Whether the G2 would make enough of a difference to negate the spring surgery or not...... opinions :question:
 

mcbrien

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
784
Location
Hanover , Pa
Checkswrecks said:
In the US, I found that some Ace Hardware stores have a selection of these torsion springs and you can choose your stiffness.
Well were getting closer , Which spring works best . ::017::
 

twinrider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,882
Location
Yokohama
Bump! Did anyone ever find a suitable aftermarket spring that lightens the throttle pull? Or does the stock one have to be modded?
 

vwboomer

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
80
twinrider said:
Bump! Did anyone ever find a suitable aftermarket spring that lightens the throttle pull? Or does the stock one have to be modded?
I just went to 4 local hardware stores, all had exactly the same torsion spring in stock ::010::

I wouldn't mind rebending the stock unit if I could get another one just in case, but so far as I can tell it doesnt' show up on the microfiche
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
I loosened up my stock spring over two years ago and I'd never go back. No hand fatigue at all.
 

SilverBullet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
1,179
Location
Harmaston, TX
Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - re-done

If you have a Kaoko throttle lock I've found you can accomplish a similar effect with ever slight tension. I do this when touring for relief as typically dont like full arm off the throttle locking.

_
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
twinrider said:
How did you do that?
my memory isn't that sharp.
But I just unhooked it on the throttle body side and let it unwind then bent the end some and hooked it to something else on the throttle body. that's all I can remember.
 

twinrider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,882
Location
Yokohama
Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - guidance please

Thanks Tobers for adding the pics. I tried to integrate them with his text from his original post to place them into context. Might have gotten some of the order wrong, but hope it helps those who want to do this mod.

-----------------

So as usual I dived in and had a go at it. Here's the sequence of events:

1) Remove side panels, lift the tank & prop up. Dont forget to unclip the two vent hoses that run down the front left of the engine to the bashplate so they dont pull off under the tank.

2) Undo the throttle housing on the handlebar and remove the ends of the throttle cables from their notches. This gives you free play of the cables at the engine end which you'll need.

3) Looking at the left side of the bike, remove the little black cover below the airbox which is hiding the throttle pulley. You will need a special torx bit for this - one with a hole in the middle. They are called tamperproof torx bits. I use a set like this: http://www.abbeypowertools.co.uk/torx-and-tx-star/torx-insert-bits/showitem-6155-38716.aspx



4) With that black cover removed, you can see the throttle pulley and cables:



5) Carefully undo the nut on the end of the spindle holding the throttle pulley, and also undo the nut on the spindle holding the linked arm, and slide off the various bits on the spindles. NOTE THE WAY THEY ARE ORIENTATED BEFORE REMOVING THEM AS SEVERAL ARE ONE-WAY (ESP THE WHITE PLASTIC WASHER). The first on the front spindle was a bit reluctant to move for me but a little encouragement had it sliding off nicely. Watch for the tiny thin washer on the back of the rear linkage. Below are the spindles with all but the throttle pulley removed.











6) Before removing the throttle pulley, be sure to confirm to yourself how the spring behind engages with the tang on the pulley so you know how to put it all back later.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/352/18954378184_253b87b200_z.jpg



7) Then remove the throttle return spring. NOTE how the straight end engages behind the plate next to the engine as you need to put it back the same way. Here's the set of parts laid out in the order they came off. The throttle return spring is the bigger one on the right. The smaller one goes to the linkage.




8) Here's the engine view without any of the pulleys or linkages on. At this point you may have noticed that the front throttle spindle pushes in an out by about 5mm. This will cause problems and swearing during reassembly, but continue in blissful ignorance for now.



9) Now to trim the spring. I figured I'd be cautious and cut a third off it rather than a half. In retrospect, half would be more like it as the throttle resistance is still firmer than I'd like. I cut it with a Dremel tool. I then bent the cut end open at the same place and to the same degree as the bit I'd just cut off. Obviously make sure you cut it in the right place so there is enough spare to bend out like this.

Removed bit on the left, remaining bit to go back on the bike on the right.






10) With the main spring cut, replacement is sort of the reverse of removal, but with lots more swearing. Firstly, slide the return spring onto the spindle, and engage the straight end back to where it came from. So far so good. The slot the white plastic washer on the correct way around so the flat face is facing outwards and it is engaged into the spring.

11) Now the fun bit! I did this with the cables on but it should work with them off. Check you've got the throttle pulley the right way around, and slide it back over the spindle. Rotate it so the curled end of the spring engages with the tang, and then rotate it to take up the tension on the spring and align the oval-shaped centre hole with the matching lugs on the spindle. At this point you'll wonder why it wont engage. You'll start to get madly frustrated until you realise that, in putting the tension into the spring, you've pushed the spindle inwards and you cant engage the pulley properly. Try for about 30 minutes in vain to get it to engage properly.

12) After a cold beer and some contemplation, screw the nut onto the end of the spindle to give you some purchase. Keep the spindle pulled out whilst you align the pulley, whilst simultaneously using a small screwdriver or similar to ensure the wite washer is pushed back far enough to reveal the full engagement notches on the spindle. Do this about 10 times before getting it right, and then watch as it pops off again. Then repeat and do it properly.

12) With the pulley finally on and located, start refitting the remaining components. Nothing too tricky, just ensure you get them the right way around. The outer spring has 2 ninety degree bends in one end. This end goes through the little hole on the throttle pulley. The free end gets sorted in a minute.

13) Tighten the nuts on both spindles so everything is secure and the bastard pulley wont jump off its notches again. Ensure the cables are on if they aren't yet.

14) Now push the free end of the outer spring around until you can get it engaged with the tang on the outer pulley (the one with the hole in). Some needle-nosed pliers should help you get the end into the hole.

15) Refit throttle cables. Check everything operates smoothly. Then run the engine and check again. Lastly, refit the black plastic cover and secure the tank & side panels.

16) Go check it runs OK.

The result - the throttle is a bit lighter, but still not light enough for me. That is one strong little spring. The throttle is very nice and smooth and free, so nothing is binding or rubbing, so it must be just the spring that is to blame.

I'm going to repeat this exercise and cut another couple of winds off it. From start to finish this took me about 3 hours, but now I know what I'm doing I reckon it'll be 60-90 mins if that. I'll report back on further progress.
[/quote]
 
Top