Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - re-done

Tobers

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Hi all,

EDIT: don't cut your original spring. Instead fit a replacement that is less strong. See further posts in this thread...

I find the throttle return spring on my 2010 S10 to be too strong for my liking. I prefer a much lighter throttle for fine control, especially when commuting. Coming from a KTM 950SM, I'm used to a light throttle and find it transforms the feel of the bike. I had an R1200GS which had the fastest deteriorating throttle cables I've ever known as they started nice and light but wore out very fast leading to a horribly heavy throttle. Crap bike, and that's without mentioning the new gearbox, wheels, clutch, rear frame, servo failure etc etc etc.

So, I'd like to remove the throttle return spring and either replace it with a less powerful one, or take a few turns off it to reduce the strength.

Having raised the tank and removed a little cover on the left side I can see the throttle cables and the pulley, and the spring behind them. There appears to be one bolt holding the assembly together on the pulley pivot. Before I dive in there and remove the bolt, and suffer small parts pinging into inaccessible dark places, has anyone done this and does anyone have any guidance for what to watch out for. I'm particularly concerned about reassembly as space is fairly limited.

Ta

Tobers
 

colorider

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - guidance please

Welcome to the forum Tobers! There are several members here that came from FJR ownership and I know many of the early FJR owners complained of the heavy throttle spring and were able to modify it for a lighter feel. Perhaps one of then will chime in and their info will help with the throttle spring on the SuperT.

Good luck!!

Rod
 

rem

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - guidance please

Welcome on, Tobers. I know nothing of these matters, but there are those lurking about who do. Someone will be along soon. Congrats on the bike and again, ::004:: . R ::022::
 

jajpko

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - guidance please

Tobers said:
Hi all,

I find the throttle return spring on my 2010 S10 to be too strong for my liking. I prefer a much lighter throttle for fine control, especially when commuting. Coming from a KTM 950SM, I'm used to a light throttle and find it transforms the feel of the bike. I had an R1200GS which had the fastest deteriorating throttle cables I've ever known as they started nice and light but wore out very fast leading to a horribly heavy throttle. Crap bike, and that's without mentioning the new gearbox, wheels, clutch, rear frame, servo failure etc etc etc.

So, I'd like to remove the throttle return spring and either replace it with a less powerful one, or take a few turns off it to reduce the strength.

Having raised the tank and removed a little cover on the left side I can see the throttle cables and the pulley, and the spring behind them. There appears to be one bolt holding the assembly together on the pulley pivot. Before I dive in there and remove the bolt, and suffer small parts pinging into inaccessible dark places, has anyone done this and does anyone have any guidance for what to watch out for. I'm particularly concerned about reassembly as space is fairly limited.

Ta

Tobers
Is there a chance you could put another smaller spring pulling in the opposite direction. That may keep you from pulling it all apart.
 

justbob

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - guidance please

ColoRider said:
Welcome to the forum Tobers! There are several members here that came from FJR ownership and I know many of the early FJR owners complained of the heavy throttle spring and were able to modify it for a lighter feel. Perhaps one of then will chime in and their info will help with the throttle spring on the SuperT.

Good luck!!

Rod
The FJR had 2 return springs, it was easy to remove one of them for a much easier throttle pull without any ill effects.
 

Tobers

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - guidance please

So as usual I dived in and had a go at it. Here's the sequence of events:

1) Remove side panels, lift the tank & prop up. Dont forget to unclip the two vent hoses that run down the front left of the engine to the bashplate so they dont pull off under the tank.

2) Undo the throttle housing on the handlebar and remove the ends of the throttle cables from their notches. This gives you free play of the cables at the engine end which you'll need.

3) Looking at the left side of the bike, remove the little black cover below the airbox which is hiding the throttle pulley. You will need a special torx bit for this - one with a hole in the middle. They are called tamperproof torx bits. I use a set like this: http://www.abbeypowertools.co.uk/torx-and-tx-star/torx-insert-bits/showitem-6155-38716.aspx



4) With that black cover removed, you can see the throttle pulley and cables:



5) Carefully undo the nut on the end of the spindle holding the throttle pulley, and also undo the nut on the spindle holding the linked arm, and slide off the various bits on the spindles. NOTE THE WAY THEY ARE ORIENTATED BEFORE REMOVING THEM AS SEVERAL ARE ONE-WAY (ESP THE WHITE PLASTIC WASHER). The first on the front spindle was a bit reluctant to move for me but a little encouragement had it sliding off nicely. Watch for the tiny thin washer on the back of the rear linkage. Below are the spindles with all but the throttle pulley removed.



6) Before removing the throttle pulley, be sure to confirm to yourself how the spring behind engages with the tang on the pulley so you know how to put it all back later.




7) Then remove the throttle return spring. NOTE how the straight end engages behind the plate next to the engine as you need to put it back the same way. Here's the set of parts laid out in the order they came off. The throttle return spring is the bigger one on the right. The smaller one goes to the linkage.




8) Here's the engine view without any of the pulleys or linkages on. At this point you may have noticed that the front throttle spindle pushes in an out by about 5mm. This will cause problems and swearing during reassembly, but continue in blissful ignorance for now.



9) EDIT - DON'T CUT YOUR ORIGINAL SPRING - GET A WEAKER ONE INSTEAD - SEE FURTHER DOWN THIS THREAD...Now to trim the spring. I figured I'd be cautious and cut a third off it rather than a half. In retrospect, half would be more like it as the throttle resistance is still firmer than I'd like. I cut it with a Dremel tool. I then bent the cut end open at the same place and to the same degree as the bit I'd just cut off. Obviously make sure you cut it in the right place so there is enough spare to bend out like this.

Removed bit on the left, remaining bit to go back on the bike on the right.






10) With the main spring cut, replacement is sort of the reverse of removal, but with lots more swearing. Firstly, slide the return spring onto the spindle, and engage the straight end back to where it came from. So far so good. The slot the white plastic washer on the correct way around so the flat face is facing outwards and it is engaged into the spring.

11) Now the fun bit! I did this with the cables on but it should work with them off. Check you've got the throttle pulley the right way around, and slide it back over the spindle. Rotate it so the curled end of the spring engages with the tang, and then rotate it to take up the tension on the spring and align the oval-shaped centre hole with the matching lugs on the spindle. At this point you'll wonder why it wont engage. You'll start to get madly frustrated until you realise that, in putting the tension into the spring, you've pushed the spindle inwards and you cant engage the pulley properly. Try for about 30 minutes in vain to get it to engage properly.

12) After a cold beer and some contemplation, screw the nut onto the end of the spindle to give you some purchase. Keep the spindle pulled out whilst you align the pulley, whilst simultaneously using a small screwdriver or similar to ensure the wite washer is pushed back far enough to reveal the full engagement notches on the spindle. Do this about 10 times before getting it right, and then watch as it pops off again. Then repeat and do it properly.

12) With the pulley finally on and located, start refitting the remaining components. Nothing too tricky, just ensure you get them the right way around. The outer spring has 2 ninety degree bends in one end. This end goes through the little hole on the throttle pulley. The free end gets sorted in a minute.

13) Tighten the nuts on both spindles so everything is secure and the bastard pulley wont jump off its notches again. Ensure the cables are on if they aren't yet.

14) Now push the free end of the outer spring around until you can get it engaged with the tang on the outer pulley (the one with the hole in). Some needle-nosed pliers should help you get the end into the hole.

15) Refit throttle cables. Check everything operates smoothly. Then run the engine and check again. Lastly, refit the black plastic cover and secure the tank & side panels.

16) Go check it runs OK.

The result - the throttle is a bit lighter, but still not light enough for me. That is one strong little spring. The throttle is very nice and smooth and free, so nothing is binding or rubbing, so it must be just the spring that is to blame.

I'm going to repeat this exercise and cut another couple of winds off it. From start to finish this took me about 3 hours, but now I know what I'm doing I reckon it'll be 60-90 mins if that. I'll report back on further progress.
 

S_Palmer

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

Are you changing the orientation of the spring ends when you put the new bends in it. It seems to me that reducing the number of coils without reducing the amount of preload would increase tension instead of decreasing it.
 

Tobers

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

Ah, that is very interesting. It may well be easier to make the arc less. Hmm. Perhaps I was imagining the throttle was lighter and my approach is flawed...
 

Tobers

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

I've ordered 3 new springs, called "torsion springs" if you were wondering, each of different strengths. I'll try them out and keep you posted...
 

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

Tobers said:
I've ordered 3 new springs, called "torsion springs" if you were wondering, each of different strengths. I'll try them out and keep you posted...
I was just about to suggest you might do what you just posted ^^^^^^^^^...... I know on the FJR many people just let the spring unwind one time and help many riders. Great pictures and post ! ::008:: Let us know what you might find !!!! ::017::
 

Yamaguy55

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

Great write up. When you're done sorting this, I'll do mine. Keep us posted.

Thanks for all the work documenting this. ::008::

I'm wondering if a more simplified version can be done by cutting the coils with the spring still installed, then pulling the unwanted portion out with vice grips. After that, form the new end, then wind it up in place and reattach. I've done that with other things, although it makes for some additional foul language over your method. Just musing.

Great idea, keep it coming.
 

Tobers

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

No way you could do it in situ as the spring is hidden behind the throttle pulley and there isnt much space to get at it either.

Will post an update when the new springs arrive.
 

Yamaguy55

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

Well, it was worth a thought. Great write up. Sounds like a future project for me. I know the lawyers put them up to it, but I don't need a barn door spring on my throttle.
 

Tobers

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Re: Throttle return spring removal, tweak & reinstall - done

3 new torsion springs have arrived today. Different strengths. Thats my weekend sorted then. More soon.
 

Tobers

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OK - new, weaker spring is now installed after MUCH SWEARING! But what a result - the throttle is about 50% lighter and so much easier to ride and use fine throttle control as a result.

I bought 3 new torsion springs of different strengths. I elected to try the middle one first. Removal is the same as in the pics above. The new springs come with sticky-out ends, one of which needs trimming to size and the other of which needs to be bent into a hook shape to match the original. Re-installation was somewhat problematic as the inner diameter of the new spring is a touch smaller than that of the original, so the white washer kept popping out of place and preventing me locating the throttle pulley on the spindle.

Much huffing and puffing resulted but I finally got it on and reinstalled. It makes a huge difference with the throttle being much lighter and as a result the whole bike feels more lively and easy to ride.

I will be seeking out a better replacement spring of the correct inside diameter and will reinstall that one just to get everything spot on as I like it.

Happy!

Tobers

::015::
 

toompine

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Will be following this as I intend to do the same (minus all the trial and error) when you are done
 

jajpko

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Great job, and yes, please keep us up to date on the final approach. This is something I'm wanting to do, so size and where you purchase the spring would be nice.
Thanks
 

Tobers

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Latest on this. The lighter spring I installed had a smaller inside diameter han the stock one. Whilst lighter, as the throttle reached the end of its travel the spring tightened on the spindle resuling in the last 10% of travel being a bit heavy. Unable to find a supplier of thinner guage torsion springs with bit enough inside diameter, I decided to tweak the original spring again and reduce the initial load on it.

I did this by uncoiling one coil of the spring at the hook end and reforming the hook 90 degrees closer to the straight end. This means that there is a quarter turn less preload on the spring which makes a lot of difference to both the torque needed to turn it and the ease of reassembly.

Additionally I found that the backstop tang on the throttle cam itself was rubbing on the screw that holds the assembly to the throttle body. When the cam is bolted to the body this does make a bit more resistance and frankly shouldnt be happening at all. I bent the tang gently so it would miss the screw head.

End result - this is actually much better than the too small lighter torsion spring. Smooth and light throughout the travel range. If you were going to do some changes yourself I'd suggest that you use this approach. I'll keep a look out for correctly dimensioned torsion springs in the meantime as hacking your original is a bit of a one-way trip.
 

Longboard

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This is a great thread and something very interesting to me. From the day I brought the bike home till now I haven't been happy with the feel of the "ride-by-wire" or YCCT throttle. CYCLE WORLD just did a head to head of the Super T, BMW and the KTM. The Super T was the overall winner and the only thing they didn't like about the bike was the ride-by-wire throttle. They described it perfectly as having a soft-hard-soft character. Thats what I feel.

I'm really looking forward to seeing a few more peoples comments after they try this.

On a side note I have a highly modified little Mini Cooper (350whp). The Mini has a very similar throttle. There are couple of aftermarket companies that make plug and play devices that allow you to adjust how fast or slow the throttle response is. I've tested a couple and they really work great. You can basically "tune" the throttle to what feels best to you. In my car I like it a little aggressive. It would be cool if someone made a product like this for the Super T.

Longboard

Tobers said:
Latest on this. The lighter spring I installed had a smaller inside diameter han the stock one. Whilst lighter, as the throttle reached the end of its travel the spring tightened on the spindle resuling in the last 10% of travel being a bit heavy. Unable to find a supplier of thinner guage torsion springs with bit enough inside diameter, I decided to tweak the original spring again and reduce the initial load on it.

I did this by uncoiling one coil of the spring at the hook end and reforming the hook 90 degrees closer to the straight end. This means that there is a quarter turn less preload on the spring which makes a lot of difference to both the torque needed to turn it and the ease of reassembly.

Additionally I found that the backstop tang on the throttle cam itself was rubbing on the screw that holds the assembly to the throttle body. When the cam is bolted to the body this does make a bit more resistance and frankly shouldnt be happening at all. I bent the tang gently so it would miss the screw head.

End result - this is actually much better than the too small lighter torsion spring. Smooth and light throughout the travel range. If you were going to do some changes yourself I'd suggest that you use this approach. I'll keep a look out for correctly dimensioned torsion springs in the meantime as hacking your original is a bit of a one-way trip.
 
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