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ballisticexchris
Guest
Yes, tire weight makes a big difference. Rolling unsprung weight affects suspension, steering, power, braking, mileage and many other aspects of motorcycle performance.
The new Mitas E07 Adventure tire (tyre)
- Thread starter shredmeister
- Start date
Question is, how much, 2% or 5%, if that? How many of us are that good of a rider to really notice it?
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ballisticexchris
Guest
I'm not that good of a rider and it is very noticeable. Power wise on the Super Tenere I would need a dyno to tell. But the shorter braking distance, suspension feedback, and handling in turns is amazing when using a tire/wheel combo that is lighter. My Michelin tires I swapped over to are a lot lighter (at least a few lbs each) than the OEM ones. The heavy feel of the bike in turns is now gone. I can also run a little less rebound damping than before for quicker yet smoother feedback on rough pavement.
A lot of what you are talking about has to do with tire design, and rubber compound. Unless you put a tire on that has the same "roundness", tire pressure, and tire pattern, how it turns in can not be compared. You can have a heavier tire that is designed to turn faster, like a street tire, or more of a dirt tire that turns slower due to the more aggressive off-road tread. You could say it is a little slower as to more/less gyroscopic effect due to weight. It is subjective.
Stopping is subjected to amount of tire on the ground, and mass (plus a whole bunch of other factors). Two different types of tires of the same weight will have different stopping distances.
Being arguementive, so I'll punt it back to you.
A lot of what you are talking about has to do with tire design, and rubber compound. Unless you put a tire on that has the same "roundness", tire pressure, and tire pattern, how it turns in can not be compared. You can have a heavier tire that is designed to turn faster, like a street tire, or more of a dirt tire that turns slower due to the more aggressive off-road tread. You could say it is a little slower as to more/less gyroscopic effect due to weight. It is subjective.
Stopping is subjected to amount of tire on the ground, and mass (plus a whole bunch of other factors). Two different types of tires of the same weight will have different stopping distances.
Being arguementive, so I'll punt it back to you.
This is what I found as well, the shape has a much more significant impact. Classic from the sportbike world, the Michelin Pilot Power series has a more "steep" curve and would drop in much faster, which some folks liked and other found to make the bike 'twitchy'.
The E07 has a very flat profile and turns in quite slowly IMO.
Unsprung weight is obviously an extremely important component in bike responsiveness and performance, however, tire shape I found more noticeable from a handling perspective.
Loved the Pilots on my ST1300.
How many times have you gone from a worn out, squared off tire to a new one, or one brand to another, and in the first corner you are a little aggressive, and you get a small butt squeeze because it went in a lot faster than you thought it would.
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Mitas
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2020
- Messages
- 2
Weight isn't the most important characteristic, as pointed out, a lot has to do with the shape of the tire.
The original E-07 has a flatter profile, which is why it also lasts longer on long road journey's. Flatter profile more contact area, more traction and less wear. For this reason we classify it as a 50/50. The standard version has a slightly softer compound and therefore better wet performance, while the Dakar verion has a harder compound and therefore longer life.
The E-07+ has a rounder profile, it is more reactive/responsive and for this reason has better road performance and handles twists and turns better and is classified as a (60/40). Of course the trade-off is that a rounder profile has less contact area and that makes it wear faster. The standard version again has a softer compound, which is better in wet conditions, while the Dakar version has a harder compound for extra longevity.
We originally planned to replace the E-07 because people in Europe don't travel the striaght line distances that are more common in North America, with all the great open space you have. We brought it back after realising this from the many complaints received mostly in the USA.
We now offer a range that no other competitor has. Not only do we have the E-07 (50/50) and E-07+ (60/40) adapted to different needs but we also have : Terraforce-R (90/10); E-08 (80/20); E-10 (30/70; E-09 (20/80); E-13/E-12 (20/80 Rally). All the above E (Enduro) type tires are interchangeable between front and rear depending on your needs.
Going back to the issue of weight. The Mitas 150/70-17 E-07 or E-07+ weight 7.32kg (16.1lb), while the Dakar version 7.89kg (17.4lb). The difference of 0.57kg (1.2lb) are those added extra plies that make the Dakar versions virtually puncture proof, but don't really make any difference on a Dual Sport bike, typically loaded for long journeys. Longevity, puncture proofing and all round performance are more important characteritics. If you compare the weight of the more nimble Terraforce-R (90/10) designed for the best road performance, a 150/70R17 weights 6.42kg (14.2lb). That is 1.47kg (3.2lb) lighter which starts to be a bigger difference.
The original E-07 has a flatter profile, which is why it also lasts longer on long road journey's. Flatter profile more contact area, more traction and less wear. For this reason we classify it as a 50/50. The standard version has a slightly softer compound and therefore better wet performance, while the Dakar verion has a harder compound and therefore longer life.
The E-07+ has a rounder profile, it is more reactive/responsive and for this reason has better road performance and handles twists and turns better and is classified as a (60/40). Of course the trade-off is that a rounder profile has less contact area and that makes it wear faster. The standard version again has a softer compound, which is better in wet conditions, while the Dakar version has a harder compound for extra longevity.
We originally planned to replace the E-07 because people in Europe don't travel the striaght line distances that are more common in North America, with all the great open space you have. We brought it back after realising this from the many complaints received mostly in the USA.
We now offer a range that no other competitor has. Not only do we have the E-07 (50/50) and E-07+ (60/40) adapted to different needs but we also have : Terraforce-R (90/10); E-08 (80/20); E-10 (30/70; E-09 (20/80); E-13/E-12 (20/80 Rally). All the above E (Enduro) type tires are interchangeable between front and rear depending on your needs.
Going back to the issue of weight. The Mitas 150/70-17 E-07 or E-07+ weight 7.32kg (16.1lb), while the Dakar version 7.89kg (17.4lb). The difference of 0.57kg (1.2lb) are those added extra plies that make the Dakar versions virtually puncture proof, but don't really make any difference on a Dual Sport bike, typically loaded for long journeys. Longevity, puncture proofing and all round performance are more important characteritics. If you compare the weight of the more nimble Terraforce-R (90/10) designed for the best road performance, a 150/70R17 weights 6.42kg (14.2lb). That is 1.47kg (3.2lb) lighter which starts to be a bigger difference.
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ballisticexchris
Guest
Interesting facts on the E07 Dakar. So it's a heavy, hard compound, long wearing tire. That is just what the general rider is looking for.
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ballisticexchris
Guest
No argument from me. We all have our opinions on what works and what does not. I do a lot more tire, braking, and suspension testing than the average rider. I can feel right away just a few lbs difference in unsprung weight when going to lighter sprockets, tires, tubes, chains, axles etc. It is a lot easier to tell the difference on a lighter bike than the Super Tenere.A lot of what you are talking about has to do with tire design, and rubber compound. Unless you put a tire on that has the same "roundness", tire pressure, and tire pattern, how it turns in can not be compared. You can have a heavier tire that is designed to turn faster, like a street tire, or more of a dirt tire that turns slower due to the more aggressive off-road tread. You could say it is a little slower as to more/less gyroscopic effect due to weight. It is subjective.
Stopping is subjected to amount of tire on the ground, and mass (plus a whole bunch of other factors). Two different types of tires of the same weight will have different stopping distances.
Being arguementive, so I'll punt it back to you.
I do not have the skills that can keep me upright in miles of deep sand on a E07 tire. I'm all about the traction, safety, and the ability to keep the bike on two wheels. I know with 100% certainty that any Chevron tread style tire is not going to have the traction I'm comfortable with when I get off the pavement.
The design parameters of the E07 Dakar are for the guy who to wants to compromise some traction and handling for a hard core, durable, "set it and forget it" tire. I have heard stories of well in excess of 10,000 miles on just a rear tire. That is amazing. There are very few tires on the market that can come close to outlasting a Mitas E07 Dakar.
Honestly, not often, unless there was leftover tire lube on the outside that ran down to the tread
But, I have switched between say a worn out Diablo Corso Rosso to a new Pilot Power and fount that the bike (Aprilia Tuono) tips in just that bit easier.
On a big heavy bike, like the Super T, with wide handlebars, I find that tipping it in is pretty easy. Even fully loaded. You just have so much leverage compared to a sport bike.
Dirt_Dad
Well-Known Member
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Interesting information. Considering the entire post from the manufacturer, It's good to know why I've had such good results from the Dakar. Very glad to have them back.
Nikolajsen
"Keep it simple"
Hmm, I agree with Mitas.
This is not what the general rider is looking for in Europe. Here the Mitas E07+ sounds much better.
Actually I have a buddy on a 2019 650 V-strom, that just have fittet the E07+ on both front and rear, and we go "breaking them in" tomorrow (only 2 hours)
And a longer trip saturday
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ballisticexchris
Guest
Here in America it's all about how long the tire will last. There are a lot of excited guys to see the return of a long wearing beefy tread. Mitas is going to sell a bunch of the E07 Dakars. I'll be curious to see how popular they are here on the West Coast.Hmm, I agree with Mitas.
This is not what the general rider is looking for in Europe. Here the Mitas E07+ sounds much better.
Actually I have a buddy on a 2019 650 V-strom, that just have fittet the E07+ on both front and rear, and we go "breaking them in" tomorrow (only 2 hours)
And a longer trip saturday
cyclemike4
Well-Known Member
I have to admit i was a bit disappointed when i heard the E07 was discontinued. I thought well i will try the E07+. It didn't look as good to me. I thought it would wear fast and probably not have the traction i was looking for. After running one off the bike and mounting another one i have to say i will probably be buying the E07+ again. It has very good road manners all the way to the wear bars. It continued to turn into corners good through out its life and it did decent off road. I have to say for me the E07 did a bit better off road and did much better in snow. I only got caught out in snow twice on the E07+ and it was only about an inch of snow so that was not a good test. I try not to ride in snow if it can be helped but that doesn't stop me if i have to. The last E07+ lasted me 10,000 miles and i could have gotten another 2000 out of it but that would have really been pushing it. I am easy on tires on the road for the most part. Off road the E07+ would continue to pull me forward and not step out on me unless i made it do that for fun. I could run them at crazy low air pressure and do fine on the road and off like that. Mind you my off road is not the places i take my YZ 250. It is where the average rider may wind up on a bike this big. All in all i am very happy with the E07+. I have only ran the Dakar version of the tire. I may try the regular version just to see what they are like.
shredmeister
Active Member
NO, it’s not ALL about how long the tire last. Yeah, there’s some who favor the longevity but, many like me who like the performance. As I’ve said before, I get 5-6k miles on the rear. And, yes they’re popular on the west coast. Go to a Tenere event and see how many people run these. I’ve been to several and this is just a popular tire. Of course I think if you tried one and it was the best tire ever, you’d still post some of your negative “opinion” about the greatest tire ever.
Peace brother.
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ballisticexchris
Guest
Let's face it, guys are not liking the E07+ is because it does not get the mileage that the traditional E07 does. The only reason someone wants the EO7 for the performance aspect is due to the great compromise tire it is. I do not compromise when it comes to tires when I get off the pavement.NO, it’s not ALL about how long the tire last. Yeah, there’s some who favor the longevity but, many like me who like the performance. As I’ve said before, I get 5-6k miles on the rear. And, yes they’re popular on the west coast. Go to a Tenere event and see how many people run these. I’ve been to several and this is just a popular tire. Of course I think if you tried one and it was the best tire ever, you’d still post some of your negative “opinion” about the greatest tire ever.
I want the very best traction available for the riding I do. I am willing to sacrifice longevity. Going through a mile plus long deep sand wash can mean the difference of good traction keeping the bike upright and having to spend 300 bucks to replace tires when I get home. It's much better than being spit off my bike and pushing the SPOT button for an airlift because I wanted to compromise.
At a general desert adventure bike event in Mojave there were a whole bunch of GS, KTM, Honda, and Yamaha bikes. Only one rider was wearing a set of Mitas E07 tires. I have not seen one before or since that event mounted on any bike. Only here on forums. At Chaparral Motorsports the ones on the shelf were very old and gathering dust. It may very well be a very popular tire for the Super Tenere. I'm not about getting a tire based on popularity.
And from what I have personally seen in the desert no one is using anything other than a traditional open block knobby for hard core off highway travel. I'm not trying to change anyones mind about what tire to choose. I just know based on personal experience what type of tire works for me and many others in the off road world.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chapperal+mororsports&oq=chapperal+mororsports&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.7080j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#
Kruzzin5
Well-Known Member
Did they fix the bead and rim air sealing issue?
Let’s be honest Chris, if all you want to do is ride hard core off road, there are much better bikes than a Super Tenere. Why aren’t you on a more dirt worthy bike? Even in the same class the African Twin is a better choice off road. It seems you have already compromised with your choice of bike.
Maybe you wanted shaft drive, two up capabilities, cruise control (WTF do you use cruise control for off-road?), comfortable ergonomics, reliability, and ease of maintenance.
Maybe you should look at a Husky 701. Yamaha is having a hard time moving the Super Tenere. Many leftovers with dust on em.
It’s the same with the E07. It fits the character of the Super Tenere and it’s capabilities very well. Kind of like the Swiss Army knife in my pocket. It’s not the best screwdriver, or knife, or saw, or awl, or tweezers, but I love mine.
if you wanted a hard coredual sport, you compromised with the S10.
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ballisticexchris
Guest
I have a dual sport for hard core off road. My point is the very small percentage of off road travel on a bike not designed for it, is to have the very best traction available. I was getting bummed out having to turn back when coming across dirt roads when I first got my beast. As stated I'm a "C" novice rider at best.
Almost anyone can manage braking, steering or traction on any kind of tire on the street. Pavement conditions do not change nearly as much as off road.
Almost anyone can manage braking, steering or traction on any kind of tire on the street. Pavement conditions do not change nearly as much as off road.
So, your opinion is that tire selection for road riding is irrelevant?
That's ... contrary to many (most?) peoples experience. Including my own. Maybe that needs some serious qualifiers. I find it matters a whole bunch. But, we probably ride differently.