Super Tenere Cam Chain Tensioner Failure

scott123007

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Eric,
Sometimes it's better to just let sleeping dogs lie. When a guy starts a post with "A cam chain tensioner is certainly a wear item like tires, clutches, brakes......."

Need I say more?
 

EricV

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scott123007 said:
Eric,
Sometimes it's better to just let sleeping dogs lie. When a guy starts a post with "A cam chain tensioner is certainly a wear item like tires, clutches, brakes......."

Need I say more?
You do have a point. My FJR cam chain looked great at 98k. ;) The S10's cam chain was described as "worn" by the tech, so they added that to the warranty claim, which then got bounced back to the dealer for 'red flags', one being the use of the term "worn" as wear is not covered under the YES warranty. A couple other items they wanted specific measurements of before agreeing to keep them on the claim and they wanted a sensor checked that could account for ECU error codes, presenting the argument that the sensor went bad, and that somehow caused the cam chain to slip... ??? My tech spent a couple of hours re-writing the claim with the more presentable verbiage, and checking the specific items that were requested by Yamaha, then re-submitted my claim. Still under review at this point, or on hold until they review the newly submitted claim. Until then... :-X
 

limey

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longride said:
No, I'm not talking out my ass DUDE. Harley Twin Cam engines have CCT's that the service schedule makes NO MENTION of checking also. They will need replacing about every 30K. Ask the owners that DIDN"T do it how theirs broke and scattered across the engine by NOT checking and replacing them.

The Tenere doesn't have to be checked by the service schedule because it automatically adjusts. That doesn't mean it doesn't wear out. Tell me you are smarter than you write. 200K if they are designed correctly? Who decided that? You?

ANY chain, or tensioner is a WEAR ITEM DUDE. I didn't decide that, and the maker doesn't, friction and physics decided. How fast they wear out is YOUR concern if you are smart. If you aren't, then let the cam chain skip and scatter your engine DUDE.
I lost my CCT on my 04 road glide 4 years ago in Pennsylvania ( 10 hrs from home ) and needed a rebuild at 60,000 km. So I'm a little woried leaving next week for Labrador.
 

Karson

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Holy smokes...I check out of this place for a day and shots've been fired!


There seems to be some hysteria around any part # differences between 12/13's and the new '14s. Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's necessarily better, right?

Probably due in part to the new clutch basket frenzy, but other than that, the documented "issues" of the CCT from one of Yamaha's dealers per Cypress is still what, <0.1% out of all the '12-13's out there?
 

airheadpilot

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I'm finally to a point where I can post an update. Basically, it took the dealer 7 weeks to pull it apart to the point where they could confirm all the damage and write up a work order to be discussed with Yamaha. That's pretty frustrating, but they are a small and very busy shop and this is their busiest season. I expect that they had some issues with techs out on vacation and, while they would never say this of course, I suspect that they were taking care of lots of smaller, quicker jobs that they could do to keep lots of customers happy, knowing that the customer with the big long job was already pissed off. Oh well - they got it apart and have talked to Yamaha, so I'll be happy about that.

There was valve-piston interference, and at least four of the valves are bent. So we're looking at a completely new top end - they're going to replace pistons and rings to be on the safe side. However, there wasn't a lot of damage to the piston crowns, so it's reasonable to expect that the bottom end of the motor didn't experience any trauma, and that there are no chunks of metal floating around in the lubrication system.

Yamaha has agreed to cover the cost of the parts, leaving me with the labor bill. The cost split is about 50/50, so I'm still looking at about $1,500 in repairs. Some of the parts are backordered, and the dealer is still trying to figure out when they're going to be available, so we don't have a solid timeline yet, but I'm guessing it's going to be at least another month before I get the bike back.

I called Yamaha USA's customer service department and talked to the customer service rep who authorized the payment. According to him they were initially going to cover some of the parts, but upon hearing of my experience with my FJR, they agreed to cover all of the parts as a good will gesture. However, since the bike was two years out of warranty, that was as far as they were willing to go. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad they're paying for something, since they weren't obligated to cough up a penny. But I did make it pretty clear (in a very nice way) for Yamaha's customer service record that I thought this was a problem that exceeded "normal wear and tear," and that I probably wouldn't buy another Yamaha without buying the extended warranty, which always feels to me like I'm betting on failure.

I expect that once I get my bike back and am riding it daily again, I'll put this all behind me like I did with my FJR. That said, the moral of this story is that, if the cam chain starts clattering on start-up, replace the CCT RIGHT AWAY, even if it goes away after a second or two. That second or two is long enough for the cam chain to slip and cost you many pennies!

Andrew
 

EricV

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Glad you're getting some love from Yamaha. I'm at 9 weeks now and parts have been sent back to Michigan for Yamaha to look at. New parts are on order, still don't know for sure what Yamaha will cover or not cover, even with the extended warranty it will likely cost me some money in the end. Not real impressed with Yamaha's customer service at the Warranty Claims end. Yamaha used to be much better than this. I too had an FJR, though only had minor claims with it, which did included 3 CCTs, fwiw.
 

airheadpilot

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Question for all of you out there who are dealers or work at dealers. Obviously, when I pay my dealer for the labor they put in on my repair, they're going to get the full whack. But what about the parts that Yamaha USA is paying for? Does my dealer get to make whatever profit they would normally make on the sale of those parts, or Yamaha just ship them the parts to use and they don't get a dime? I guess what I'm asking is: is my dealer getting screwed out of some money because Yamaha is helping me out? I don't really know how it works and I'd like some insight into the shop's motivations if I start to feel like they're continuing to not prioritize my job.

Thanks,

Andrew
 

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airheadpilot said:
Question for all of you out there who are dealers or work at dealers. Obviously, when I pay my dealer for the labor they put in on my repair, they're going to get the full whack. But what about the parts that Yamaha USA is paying for? Does my dealer get to make whatever profit they would normally make on the sale of those parts, or Yamaha just ship them the parts to use and they don't get a dime? I guess what I'm asking is: is my dealer getting screwed out of some money because Yamaha is helping me out? I don't really know how it works and I'd like some insight into the shop's motivations if I start to feel like they're continuing to not prioritize my job.

Thanks,

Andrew
Yamaha only provided some parts and no labor...right? If so.. then your dealer only makes labor dollars from you on those parts. I would ask for them go over your build sheet with you so you both feel good about the work and charges. Should be no hurry when doing this with the service manager and neither should he. In the end both should feel all is fair.

Hope it all goes good for you.

Bruce
 

scott123007

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I'm a little confused by your question, but I will try to answer what I "think" you mean. Whatever your job entails, there is a labor rate that a shop charges. You will be billed for that labor rate. If it was a warranty job, the dollar amount the dealership would be compensated by Yamaha Corp. may be different than what they charge you, but the billable hours, should be the same. Hope this helps.
 

airheadpilot

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Maybe I was unclear. Yamaha is picking up the cost of the parts and I am picking up the cost of the labor. I'll pay the shop for their actual time at their shop rate and the shop will make money on that transaction (as they should).

What I don't understand is how the parts will work. If I bought the parts from the dealer, would they charge me more than they will get from Yamaha? Another way of asking the question is: is the shop missing out on some profit because Yamaha is picking up the parts instead of me?

It may not matter, because I fervently hope that the shop will bust this out as fast as parts availability and resources allow so that I can get back to my regular ride. But I do find it remarkably coincidental that they actually started taking the bike apart to put together a work order once I started complaining about the problem directly to Yamaha, at which point they had had the bike in their possession for 7 weeks. I worry that they might be somewhat demotivated by the fact that Yamaha is picking up the parts bill (and therefore eating into their profit) and might not push my project as fast as they otherwise might.
 

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airheadpilot said:
Maybe I was unclear. Yamaha is picking up the cost of the parts and I am picking up the cost of the labor. I'll pay the shop for their actual time at their shop rate and the shop will make money on that transaction (as they should).

What I don't understand is how the parts will work. If I bought the parts from the dealer, would they charge me more than they will get from Yamaha? Another way of asking the question is: is the shop missing out on some profit because Yamaha is picking up the parts instead of me?

It may not matter, because I fervently hope that the shop will bust this out as fast as parts availability and resources allow so that I can get back to my regular ride. But I do find it remarkably coincidental that they actually started taking the bike apart to put together a work order once I started complaining about the problem directly to Yamaha, at which point they had had the bike in their possession for 7 weeks. I worry that they might be somewhat demotivated by the fact that Yamaha is picking up the parts bill (and therefore eating into their profit) and might not push my project as fast as they otherwise might.
Here is one reason why I don't like paying shop labor rate example $100 / hr. Mechanic gets $25/ hr paid to him based on flat rate time. Say flat rate is 2hours, he gets $50. If he does it in an hour, he gets the $50 and the dealer gets $150. So, mechanic hurries to make max pay and dealer collects on someone else's work.
So my point is....they are getting their money whether you think or not. If Yamaha pays labor to dealer it is usually smaller than what you would be paying.

Jeff
 

scott123007

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airheadpilot said:
Maybe I was unclear. Yamaha is picking up the cost of the parts and I am picking up the cost of the labor. I'll pay the shop for their actual time at their shop rate and the shop will make money on that transaction (as they should).

What I don't understand is how the parts will work. If I bought the parts from the dealer, would they charge me more than they will get from Yamaha? Another way of asking the question is: is the shop missing out on some profit because Yamaha is picking up the parts instead of me?

It may not matter, because I fervently hope that the shop will bust this out as fast as parts availability and resources allow so that I can get back to my regular ride. But I do find it remarkably coincidental that they actually started taking the bike apart to put together a work order once I started complaining about the problem directly to Yamaha, at which point they had had the bike in their possession for 7 weeks. I worry that they might be somewhat demotivated by the fact that Yamaha is picking up the parts bill (and therefore eating into their profit) and might not push my project as fast as they otherwise might.
Don't lose any sleep over this. The parts being used are "neutral" your dealership won't have to pay for them, so it is strictly a labor situation. They are actually making out better being able to charge for labor, than if it was pure warranty.

@ HoebSTer
A dealership can only wish that your scenario exists. It's WAY more often than not, that flat rate is less time, than what is needed for a job.
 

Karson

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Did the CCT yesterday with WRW9751 in his shop. Pretty painless all in all. Just had me thinking when I tapped/pushed the cast portion of the guide to release the CCT.

There was really no audible click or visual cues I could go by indicating the plunger has released itself from the circlips. So, kind of judge by lightly feeling the looseness of the chain without the CCT in there, then after the new one's in.

There's literally no exterior differences in the old vs new that I could see. O:)

Plus I got to rip around on his 690 Duke and 500 EXC, so that was icing on the cake. ::26::
 

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FYI on the CCT's on B/O, I just talked to my Yamaha guy and he said the eta on my cct was Oct 2nd. I'm setting here wanting to put in the new clutch basket, but I think I'll hold off another two weeks and do it all at the same time.
 

greg the pole

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I just stumbled on this topic.

I replaced my yamaha unit with a manual item from Ebay. $74 shipped to kanukistan, problem solved.

sorry to hear about your ordeal.
 

OldRider

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Ok all you Rocket Scientist, tell me why this won't work. You can look through the timing plug hole and see the rear tensioner. Why not just push it back right there to release the tensioner instead of pulling the clutch cover off???
 

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avc8130

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OldRider said:
Ok all you Rocket Scientist, tell me why this won't work. You can look through the timing plug hole and see the rear tensioner. Why not just push it back right there to release the tensioner instead of pulling the clutch cover off???
You could try. The main issue I see is that it will be tough to verify that it actually "released" as you can't see much.

ac
 

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avc8130 said:
You could try. The main issue I see is that it will be tough to verify that it actually "released" as you can't see much.

ac
You will be able to feel/see if there is still slack in the chain. Unreleased, the tensioner should have a noticeable amount of free play in it. As soon as my CCT gets here I'll report back. I'm changing out the clutch basket at the same time, so I'll do the CCT first and then pull the cover.
 

avc8130

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OldRider said:
You will be able to feel/see if there is still slack in the chain. Unreleased, the tensioner should have a noticeable amount of free play in it. As soon as my CCT gets here I'll report back. I'm changing out the clutch basket at the same time, so I'll do the CCT first and then pull the cover.
Give it a shot. I didn't say "impossible", just "difficult". Yamaha is willing to burn the clutch cover gasket for this.

Heck, even with the clutch cover off I really don't LIKE how you have to release it. It takes a pretty stern "whack" (think Batman) to get it released.

ac
 

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All you clever folks, why not post a picture of removing and installing the CCT in sequence?
 
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