Report about your Shorai Lithium Battery in your Tenere

~TABASCO~

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snakebitten said:
This thread has done a 180 on me.

Early on it revealed why I would NOT change to this battery. A battery is just something I don't want to NEED to know anything about.
Adding a "process" in cold weather turned me completely off.

But now I find out that this technology actually holds its charge better over time?

Ok, that changes things.

So I got to thinking, with lead acid and camping, I'm reluctant to charge cell phones or tablets overnight with the motorcycle battery. God forbid I'm in a tent in some remote location. But, are you saying it would actually be a good thing to charge a phone on a cold night? It would HELP the battery do it's primary job of starting the bike!

Is this flawed thinking?

By the way, I have forgotten I left the cell phone on charge overnight and the lead acid oem battery was fine. But, it wasn't that cold.
Just to add to this....... I have a Shorai and have plugged in my phone over night... The bike started no problem the next day and the cell phone was 100%... Also, there have been several times I've left the Baja S2's on for several hours, when I got back to the bike it fired right up like normal.. The BAJA LED lights pull a lot more power than anyone's cell phone... Just last weekend we showed up the first night at camp in the dark.... I just flipped on the BAJA lights and set up camp... didn't even think about the battery...... So far this thing ROCKS....
 

Doug C

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At the end of day when travelling I plugged in all the things (too many) that needed charge, two way radios, blue tooth headsets etc. All low draw items but take a few hours each. Never saw voltage less than 13.3 in the morning.
 

Curt

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Let's see if I can get these calculations right...

Motorcycle battery: ~14 amp-hours @ 12V = 168 watt-hours.
Cell phone battery: ~3100mAH @ 3.7V = 11.5 watt-hours.

So, with inefficiencies, I'd expect to charge the cell phone about 12 times before depleting the motorcycle battery. The only worry would be if a badly designed charging circuit continued drawing after the phone finishes charging.

Unfortunately, the ST accessory 12V plug is unpowered when the key is off. That always bugs me on long trips, because I can only charge while in motion with the cord hanging out of the tank bag.
 

~TABASCO~

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Curt said:
Let's see if I can get these calculations right...

Motorcycle battery: ~14 amp-hours @ 12V = 168 watt-hours.
Cell phone battery: ~3100mAH @ 3.7V = 11.5 watt-hours.

So, with inefficiencies, I'd expect to charge the cell phone about 12 times before depleting the motorcycle battery. The only worry would be if a badly designed charging circuit continued drawing after the phone finishes charging.

Unfortunately, the ST accessory 12V plug is unpowered when the key is off. That always bugs me on long trips, because I can only charge while in motion with the cord hanging out of the tank bag.

I added a marine 12v plug that is wired up with 30A fuse and much bigger wire.. Its straight to the batt so I can charge all night if need be, also can use my cycle pump anytime... There are many ways to hook up the same type system, this is what I did about two years ago...
 

jaeger22

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At the American International Motorcycle Expo in Orlando a few weeks ago I picked up a Micro Start Battery kit from antigravity batteries as shown here http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/. This thing is amazing. It will fit in your shirt pocket but puts out 200 amps and it can jump start my TRUCK about 5 times on a single charge. ??? My little old S10 motor would be no challenge. It also comes with USP adapters to allow you to charge cell phones and other USB type gear. I carry it in the bottom of my side case for emergencies, both for my self and others. The whole kit with charger and cables fits in a box about 4" by 5" by 1.5" and weighs 14 oz. The kit was around $125. Having had several batteries die on me, I feel this is cheap insurance.
I haven't put a Lithium battery in my S10 yet but after my experience with the Shorai in my DR-650, there is no question that one is going in the S10 when a new battery is needed. The one in the DR is 5.5 lb lighter than the stock battery and turns the motor faster and holds a charge longer.
I actually replaced a perfectly good stock battery in the DR because I was in the process of converting it to my own DIY EFI system. One of the problems I had was finding a good place to put the ECU. Not much space on that DR. ::) But when I replaced the stock battery with the Shorai there was room left over in the battery box for the ECU and some padding. ::008::
 

Checkswrecks

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For MOST motorcycle users, the LiFe batteries would be a huge improvement. Lead acid has a discharge curve that tapers, meaning that the less charge it has, the less power you have each time you press the starter button. You will know when the end of the charge is coming because the starter has a harder time spinning, the lights are weaker, etc. Lithium batteries have a discharge curve that is nearly flat, meaning that you will get almost the same full-power kick on the starter motor until the battery is empty. Suddenly you will simply not start. Nothing. The charge simply falls off a cliff.


The exceptions for who would benefit would be the folks who ride when temperatures are regularly less than about freezing (really about -10C) and very few people ride their bikes when it is less than freezing. It's not that the cold affects the battery function directly (generalized for motorcycle usage anyway), it's that cold charging takes the lithium out of the electrolyte and creates small deposits, shorting the anode and cathode within the cell. The shorting usually just burns holes inside the battery, killing it, but there have been thermal runaways and fires. The fires are almost never in Lithium Iron (LiFe), which is the most stable of the lithium cells.


Because this can be such a hazard, many chargers and some internal battery control circuits will prevent charging when it is freezing out. In real-life terms, this means that somebody like Snakebitten in Texas would not charge after the first starts on a few of the coldest winter mornings, and would not be aware when the battery begins to charge after enough engine or sun heat gets the battery above freezing. No problem. For somebody like Rem, living near the Arctic, he may be drawing on the battery enough to discharge the thing.

One other safety note: Overcharging any lithium is extremely hazardous so follow directions. If you want to see excitement, Youtube some videos of people overcharging lithium cells.

Charging cell phones would be no issue. Note also that the energy density of Lithium beats the heck out of lead-acid and nicad, so a small appearing Lithium probably has more energy than a much larger one of those. When you think about using a little juice to charge your phone, imagine doing it from a lead-acid at least double the physical size of the LiFe that you may be looking at charging from.


Finally, heat shortens the life of Lithium batteries, especially when stored hot. You desert dwellers would be wise to research the life others are getting out of the exact model you are interested in for YOUR area.


Good source for more info:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
 

Dirt_Dad

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Checkswrecks said:
For MOST motorcycle users, the LiFe batteries would be a huge improvement.
Why do I feel like this is information you've learn within the last year at an extraordinarily in-depth level? Just a hunch. I also suspect I saw you on TV one night while you were learning it. Am I close?
 

regulator

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~TABASCO~ said:
I added a marine 12v plug that is wired up with 30A fuse and much bigger wire.. Its straight to the batt so I can charge all night if need be, also can use my cycle pump anytime... There are many ways to hook up the same type system, this is what I did about two years ago...
I have a SAE plug on a 10 amp fuse running to my tankbag. Powerlet luggage electrix connector into the tankbag. From there I can charge phones, radios, run an Autocom unit, and etc. Tankbag keeps everything dry when the weather gets bad, and the whole setup can be easily transferred from bike to bike if necessary.
 

snakebitten

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That microbattery jump start kit is killer!

Leaves lots of room for screwing up while camping. One battery that can go in the tent, or start the bike. Trick.

Every night I go to sleep I wake to some new discovery that changes all the rules. Amazing times.
 

Checkswrecks

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Dirt_Dad said:
Why do I feel like this is information you've learn within the last year at an extraordinarily in-depth level? Just a hunch. I also suspect I saw you on TV one night while you were learning it. Am I close?

Define close. I'm about 7,000 miles from you now, testing batteries. Tomorrow I'll drive along the shore just north of the wrecked Fukushida Daichi nuke plant to get back to Taiwan to a different battery lab.


Yes, I've learned a LOT and still am.


::008::
 

num

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I'm running a ballistic LiFe battery in the tenere for almost a year. I love the thing, the stock battery let me down after 9 months. I ride the bike at least 4 days a week so it wasn't sitting, just bad science.
 

hANNAbONE

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regulator said:
I have a SAE plug on a 10 amp fuse running to my tankbag. Powerlet luggage electrix connector into the tankbag. From there I can charge phones, radios, run an Autocom unit, and etc. Tankbag keeps everything dry when the weather gets bad, and the whole setup can be easily transferred from bike to bike if necessary.


me too... same same
 

Checkswrecks

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num said:
I'm running a ballistic LiFe battery in the tenere for almost a year. I love the thing, the stock battery let me down after 9 months. I ride the bike at least 4 days a week so it wasn't sitting, just bad science.

Science is like the weather when remembering that the Scandinavians say:
There is no bad weather, just bad [knowledge of] clothing.


;)
 

Travex

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Checkswrecks said:
For MOST motorcycle users, the LiFe batteries would be a huge improvement. Lead acid has a discharge curve that tapers, meaning that the less charge it has, the less power you have each time you press the starter button. You will know when the end of the charge is coming because the starter has a harder time spinning, the lights are weaker, etc. Lithium batteries have a discharge curve that is nearly flat, meaning that you will get almost the same full-power kick on the starter motor until the battery is empty. Suddenly you will simply not start. Nothing. The charge simply falls off a cliff.


The exceptions for who would benefit would be the folks who ride when temperatures are regularly less than about freezing (really about -10C) and very few people ride their bikes when it is less than freezing. It's not that the cold affects the battery function directly (generalized for motorcycle usage anyway), it's that cold charging takes the lithium out of the electrolyte and creates small deposits, shorting the anode and cathode within the cell. The shorting usually just burns holes inside the battery, killing it, but there have been thermal runaways and fires. The fires are almost never in Lithium Iron (LiFe), which is the most stable of the lithium cells.


Because this can be such a hazard, many chargers and some internal battery control circuits will prevent charging when it is freezing out. In real-life terms, this means that somebody like Snakebitten in Texas would not charge after the first starts on a few of the coldest winter mornings, and would not be aware when the battery begins to charge after enough engine or sun heat gets the battery above freezing. No problem. For somebody like Rem, living near the Arctic, he may be drawing on the battery enough to discharge the thing.

One other safety note: Overcharging any lithium is extremely hazardous so follow directions. If you want to see excitement, Youtube some videos of people overcharging lithium cells.

Charging cell phones would be no issue. Note also that the energy density of Lithium beats the heck out of lead-acid and nicad, so a small appearing Lithium probably has more energy than a much larger one of those. When you think about using a little juice to charge your phone, imagine doing it from a lead-acid at least double the physical size of the LiFe that you may be looking at charging from.


Finally, heat shortens the life of Lithium batteries, especially when stored hot. You desert dwellers would be wise to research the life others are getting out of the exact model you are interested in for YOUR area.


Good source for more info:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Excellent post. Thanks for tidying up my gray matter.
 

Tremor38

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Checkswrecks said:
Define close. I'm about 7,000 miles from you now, testing batteries. Tomorrow I'll drive along the shore just north of the wrecked Fukushida Daichi nuke plant to get back to Taiwan to a different battery lab.


Yes, I've learned a LOT and still am.


::008::
Close, but no cigar. F-u-k-u-s-h-I-m-a ::008:: (changed by me once already!)
 

NoMorBills

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Just installed mine. The bike never cranked over as quick with the lead cell. So far very happy with it.

Time will tell, but it is only a few dollars more than a stock one.
 

Checkswrecks

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Don in Lodi said:
LOL, Spellcheck says you're all wrong! ::019::

I was just was on the coast about 30 miles north of the broken nuke & will have to upload some photos. Biggest construction area that I have ever seen and it's now two years after.


Very humbling to see an entire neighborhood of house foundation bases that are only 6" tall and all the rebar sticking up and twisted like wet noodles, facing inland.
 

Don in Lodi

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They're in the news right now, finally pulling fuel rods.
 
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