New engine vibrations bad gas? Or something else? On the road, need suggestions.

[cory1848]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Really appreciated. Will try and hunt for a vacuum leak once I get the bike back, which I am assuming will be later today. I will resync the TB's as well and replace the vacuum cap. Other than that, not sure what to do.

I will have a difficult time trying to reproduce the conditions as Florida has no mountains to really put the bike under a load. Also no thin dry air here either. Strange as most people report that riding in the mountains they get great gas mileage and bike runs really well, where mine was just the opposite.

 

[Harry Dresden PI]

Wow another Super Tenere less than an hour ride from my 2014 ES in Melbourne Fla ...

 

[VPS1]

There are a few of us in Florida! I am in Largo, with 3 around here that I know of.

 

[shrekonwheels]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Really appreciated. Will try and hunt for a vacuum leak once I get the bike back, which I am assuming will be later today. I will resync the TB's as well and replace the vacuum cap. Other than that, not sure what to do.

I will have a difficult time trying to reproduce the conditions as Florida has no mountains to really put the bike under a load. Also no thin dry air here either. Strange as most people report that riding in the mountains they get great gas mileage and bike runs really well, where mine was just the opposite.

Try a competent dealer.

 

[markjenn]

Try a competent dealer.

How does a "competent dealer" diagnose a problem that can't be reproduced? I'm not usually a defender of dealer's service departments, but if a problem can't be reproduced, it can't be fixed.

It sounds like there is a genuine problem, but I'll also add that when you add load, heat, and altitude to the S10, you can get a bike that noticeably changes its feel and with much more engine vibration. I've remarked numerous times on this forum how the S10 can seem almost eerily smooth and effortless under low-load conditions, especially with a tailwind. But conversely, if you are slogging into a headwind on a hot day, it can be a pretty throbby beast. While four-cyl machines tend to have periods of vibration that are RPM dependent, the vibes from the S10 are very much load dependent and do tend to gt worse in hot conditions. Again, I mention this not to say that this bike doesn't have a problem, but to set expectations.... if you expect the bike to have the same level of vibes under light-load conditions at sea level and high-load conditions at 6K+ feet, you're likely to be disappointed.

- Mark

 

[shrekonwheels]

I live at a mile high in one of those places where the wind seemingly never stops. I have yet to experience this problem. If I do and it cannot be rectified it would go bye bye, it's not like this machine is low on power.
Mechanics competence and even give a shit varies greatly, with giving a shit being in short supply in this country in general.
I lost count how many machines I have had to fix after I got them back from a Mechanic, or even find another Mechanic when something is beyond my abilities.

 

[Ramseybella]

I live at a mile high in one of those places where the wind seemingly never stops. I have yet to experience this problem. If I do and it cannot be rectified it would go bye bye, it's not like this machine is low on power.
Mechanics competence and even give a shit varies greatly, with giving a shit being in short supply in this country in general.
I lost count how many machines I have had to fix after I got them back from a Mechanic, or even find another Mechanic when something is beyond my abilities.

I agree!

I have been all over the mountains in Northern NM and Colorado and have not lost power or had vibe issues just use a bit more gas pulling a load up a mountain.
Now with that I did have a problem last weekend with idle falling off the map to raging to 3000 rpms seemed 214 degrees was off the hook while riding 55mph.
I did find the right vacuum cap had a small nick I replaced it cleaned and lubed the lower throttle cable line (How is the fly by wire throttling) started my bike and sprayed throttle body cleaner down the ports and cleaned the butterfly's popped the rad cap to check the seal everything clean and topped off and ran the tank of gas with half bottle of Lucas, it has been fine since.
My local independent mechanic seems to think I may have had some bad gas, I don't know hard to say. :

Mechanics these days are ether untrained for the brand and model bikes or are just them Plug N play guys that built desktop computers.
And we know the new breed of bikes are Plug N Play and computer driven.
Add that up with the dealerships that do multiple motorcycle brands and they can't keep up.

When I owned my Triumph Tiger 1050 I knew the head Mechanic and he always went to the service update classes to learn the latest and greatest and passed it on to his crew.
Triumph is all about ECU's as well, last factory called ECU download I named the Neutered tune on the Tiger Forum just seemed to kill the power band and he understood but had no control over Mother ship Triumph!
Every bike I have owned had some sort of issue but issues are getting harder to identify these days.

I won't use my local Yamaha/ Kawasaki/ Suzuki/ KTM/ Polaris/ URAL/ Mahindra (tractor) (am I leaving someone out?) dealer the service manager is a complete JASS!!

 

[cory1848]

How does a "competent dealer" diagnose a problem that can't be reproduced? I'm not usually a defender of dealer's service departments, but if a problem can't be reproduced, it can't be fixed.

It sounds like there is a genuine problem, but I'll also add that when you add load, heat, and altitude to the S10, you can get a bike that noticeably changes its feel and with much more engine vibration. I've remarked numerous times on this forum how the S10 can seem almost eerily smooth and effortless under low-load conditions, especially with a tailwind. But conversely, if you are slogging into a headwind on a hot day, it can be a pretty throbby beast. While four-cyl machines tend to have periods of vibration that are RPM dependent, the vibes from the S10 are very much load dependent and do tend to gt worse in hot conditions. Again, I mention this not to say that this bike doesn't have a problem, but to set expectations.... if you expect the bike to have the same level of vibes under light-load conditions at sea level and high-load conditions at 6K+ feet, you're likely to be disappointed.

- Mark

Just a note, this started at low altitude in Alabama. I really don't think altitude contributes much to the initial problem. I was loaded up but not overloaded when it started, ~350lbs rider and luggage. It was hot though, but its always been in a hot environment living in Florida.

The problem is reproducible, just not at my home location at sea level. It was consistent for 3000 miles.... The trouble being home is that it is tough to put the bike under the same load conditions as there are no mountains to climb here.

 

[cory1848]

I agree!

I have been all over the mountains in Northern NM and Colorado and have not lost power or had vibe issues just use a bit more gas pulling a load up a mountain.
Now with that I did have a problem last weekend with idle falling off the map to raging to 3000 rpms seemed 214 degrees was off the hook while riding 55mph.
I did find the right vacuum cap had a small nick I replaced it cleaned and lubed the lower throttle cable line (How is the fly by wire throttling) started my bike and sprayed throttle body cleaner down the ports and cleaned the butterfly's popped the rad cap to check the seal everything clean and topped off and ran the tank of gas with half bottle of Lucas, it has been fine since.
My local independent mechanic seems to think I may have had some bad gas, I don't know hard to say. :

Mechanics these days are ether untrained for the brand and model bikes or are just them Plug N play guys that built desktop computers.
And we know the new breed of bikes are Plug N Play and computer driven.
Add that up with the dealerships that do multiple motorcycle brands and they can't keep up.

When I owned my Triumph Tiger 1050 I knew the head Mechanic and he always went to the service update classes to learn the latest and greatest and passed it on to his crew.
Triumph is all about ECU's as well, last factory called ECU download I named the Neutered tune on the Tiger Forum just seemed to kill the power band and he understood but had no control over Mother ship Triumph!
Every bike I have owned had some sort of issue but issues are getting harder to identify these days.

I won't use my local Yamaha/ Kawasaki/ Suzuki/ KTM/ Polaris/ URAL/ Mahindra (tractor) (am I leaving someone out?) dealer the service manager is a complete JASS!!

So do you think it was the vacuum cap? I am hoping the dealer "finds" a vacuum leak such as this. They still have the bike. Tomorrow will be two weeks. Talked to them on Friday and they said they were talking with Yamaha about it. Competence is still up in the air with this dealer, but it seems they are really trying to figure it out. They didn't tell me they found a problem, however if they are talking with Yamaha directly, I assume they found something...

You were riding at 214 degrees at 55mph? These were my symptoms as well.

 

[VPS1]

Just for reference, I was riding yesterday in 91 degrees heat and at 50 or so mph I was 178 to 185, it jumped quick at stops and dropped back down under way. That temp has to be connected.

 

[cory1848]

Just for reference, I was riding yesterday in 91 degrees heat and at 50 or so mph I was 178 to 185, it jumped quick at stops and dropped back down under way. That temp has to be connected.

Yea the temp was the weird thing. I am good with nuts and bolts but when it comes to the sensors and all the electrical computer stuff, I am lost. Hoping the dealer finds something.

 

[VPS1]

Did anyone pull the plugs and see what they look like? I swapped in new at around 15,000 and they looked almost new. But they do have a "lean running" look to them.....very light coloring. Maybe suggest they pull one or two and give a look?

 

[Ramseybella]

Just for reference, I was riding yesterday in 91 degrees heat and at 50 or so mph I was 178 to 185, it jumped quick at stops and dropped back down under way. That temp has to be connected.

My temp has seemed to go back to normal after tinkering around on Sunday, I did pop the cap as I stated maybe it had something to do with it hard to say.
So far it is running fine, again don't know if the Vac cap was the issue or the butterfly's? :
All I know I don't want it to do it again..

 

[justlookin]

If the plugs have not already been changed I would do that first. I had a situation recently where the plugs were fairly new and looked fine, but changing them sorted out a vibration problem ( this was on a bmw r1150)

If the plug change does not fix it I would get the fuel injectors cleaned. I know of no motorcycle shops that have the equipment to do this. In the past I have used Injector Experts (search on line). He charges $20/injector If there is a bit of dirt, gas additives may not work.

John

 

[markjenn]

You really have to be careful trying to draw hard conclusions based on comparing the indicated coolant temp of one bike vs. another.

Most water-cooled street bikes today fully open their thermostat at about 175-deg F and switch their aux cooling fans on at about 212-deg. In-between these limits, the bike's temperature will vary dramatically based on ambient temp and load, but mostly dependent on effective forward speed. An the relationship between speed and temp is quite pronounced..... at 40-mph the bike may be running 212-220 and be cycling the fan, while at 60-mph it will be running 175. And I said "effective speed" deliberately - if you have a 15-mph tailwind, the bike will "think" it is doing 45-mph at 60-mph and will probably run 20-deg hotter which is very counter-intuitive.

Every forum on the net has people worrying about their motorcycles overheating and wringing their hands about other bikes which seem to run cooler. I bet the mfgs would really prefer to just put idiot lights on the dash and have riders ride dumber/happier.

You may have a sensor issue, but I doubt you have a cooling issue.

- Mark

 

[Dogdaze]

You really have to be careful trying to draw hard conclusions based on comparing the indicated coolant temp of one bike vs. another.

I bet the mfgs would really prefer to just put idiot lights on the dash and have riders ride dumber/happier.

- Mark

::026::

 

[Nimbus]

It's also true that the temp sensors are exceptionally sensitive on Yamaha bikes and react very quickly. I'm always surprised at how quickly the display shows a change. I've been stopped at long lights in the winter and the temp will come up to the mid 170s after just a few mile warm-up. Nearly as soon as I've got any airflow past the radiator, the temp is dropping and within 1/2 mile it'll show 140.

 

[cory1848]

You really have to be careful trying to draw hard conclusions based on comparing the indicated coolant temp of one bike vs. another.

Most water-cooled street bikes today fully open their thermostat at about 175-deg F and switch their aux cooling fans on at about 212-deg. In-between these limits, the bike's temperature will vary dramatically based on ambient temp and load, but mostly dependent on effective forward speed. An the relationship between speed and temp is quite pronounced..... at 40-mph the bike may be running 212-220 and be cycling the fan, while at 60-mph it will be running 175. And I said "effective speed" deliberately - if you have a 15-mph tailwind, the bike will "think" it is doing 45-mph at 60-mph and will probably run 20-deg hotter which is very counter-intuitive.

Every forum on the net has people worrying about their motorcycles overheating and wringing their hands about other bikes which seem to run cooler. I bet the mfgs would really prefer to just put idiot lights on the dash and have riders ride dumber/happier.

You may have a sensor issue, but I doubt you have a cooling issue.

- Mark

This may be true, however in my issues, this is out of character for what I was experiencing for an entire year prior to my trip. And it only started after 600 miles from when I started the trip. That is when all of the other "symptoms" started as well. I find it very strange that in the dead of summer in the Florida heat, the bike would run 195ish at 60mph highway when its 100 degrees outside. Then in the mountains with temps averaging 60-70 degrees, even 30 degrees when I woke up in Yellowstone, that the bike still would show 205-215 temp at speed and not get below 200. The fan constantly being on would tell me more than an idiot light would. Even my wife as a passenger commented on it. I didnt test this but without the fan, I am positive the bike would have overheated even at speed.

This is completely out of character for any bike which is why I believe this is a key factor in whatever is going wrong. This is not normal. I am not comparing mine to any other bike out there either, I am comparing it to past experience with the same bike. Cooling issue, sensor issue, fueling issue, IDK. Whatever it is, I need it fixed. I really don't care what the issue is as long as the bike runs as normal.

Plugs have not been changed, letting the dealer deal with that. Hopefully they check that.

 

[shrekonwheels]

This may be true, however in my issues, this is out of character for what I was experiencing for an entire year prior to my trip. And it only started after 600 miles from when I started the trip. That is when all of the other "symptoms" started as well. I find it very strange that in the dead of summer in the Florida heat, the bike would run 195ish at 60mph highway when its 100 degrees outside. Then in the mountains with temps averaging 60-70 degrees, even 30 degrees when I woke up in Yellowstone, that the bike still would show 205-215 temp at speed and not get below 200. The fan constantly being on would tell me more than an idiot light would. Even my wife as a passenger commented on it. I didnt test this but without the fan, I am positive the bike would have overheated even at speed.

This is completely out of character for any bike which is why I believe this is a key factor in whatever is going wrong. This is not normal. I am not comparing mine to any other bike out there either, I am comparing it to past experience with the same bike. Cooling issue, sensor issue, fueling issue, IDK. Whatever it is, I need it fixed. I really don't care what the issue is as long as the bike runs as normal.

Plugs have not been changed, letting the dealer deal with that. Hopefully they check that.

Nothing strange about it, the air thins as you ride to higher altitudes and the also varies according to humidity. Florida is very humid, that itself will lend to a more dense air than Montana which is very Arid. Since you have less air in Montana your bike will run hotter.
You are driving yourself crazy over nothing, the heat aspect is an on issue. So long as the bike is not overheating ride and enjoy yourself.
As to the shudder, I still think it was a fueling issue, but then again it may have been a faulty plug. At times the ceramic of a plug can crack and make your bike run poorly, Simply examining the plug may or may not see this crack.
Until the bike acts up again, you are simply wasting your time at dealerships who are merely chasing ghosts.

 

[Nimbus]

Nothing strange about it, the air thins as you ride to higher altitudes and the also varies according to humidity. Florida is very humid, that itself will lend to a more dense air than Montana which is very Arid. Since you have less air in Montana your bike will run hotter.
You are driving yourself crazy over nothing, the heat aspect is an on issue. So long as the bike is not overheating ride and enjoy yourself.
As to the shudder, I still think it was a fueling issue, but then again it may have been a faulty plug. At times the ceramic of a plug can crack and make your bike run poorly, Simply examining the plug may or may not see this crack.
Until the bike acts up again, you are simply wasting your time at dealerships who are merely chasing ghosts.

This feels a bit dismissive to me. Over the 28K+ miles that I've put on my bike I've ridden in nasty heat/humidity and even at temps over 100 and with high humidity, the bike only runs a few (5 at most) degrees hotter than normal. I remember being amazed at how hard the bike felt it was working across Kansas at 102 degrees into a headwind, and yet the temp was below 180. In the mountains of CO, two up, the bike ran cool (as often the temp was cooler). I left the house one morning and it was only about 60 and I don't recall the bike getting past 160 for a long time. Mine runs below 160 (often 140) when the ambient temp is below about 55. So...I can't imagine a constant 210+ would ever be normal when air is flowing through the radiator, particularly given how fast my bike cools when I start moving.