New engine vibrations bad gas? Or something else? On the road, need suggestions.

[cory1848]

I think at this point it's not failing just not operating as intended. Will have to deal with it until i get it home. Will let dealer figure it out if I can get it to act up when back in Florida.

 

[Don in Lodi]

A lean condition can cause an engine to run hotter than normal... and a loss of power.

 

[tubebender]

Codes 13 and 14 are air pressure sensor codes. 13 being electrical and 14 being clogged or detached hose.

As you had to mess with the hose when you did a TB sync, the possibility exists the hose may be leaking.

Wouldn't hurt to double check the hose. You can see it and the sensor without raising the tank. LH side, you'll have to get down low and look up..

 

[Don in Lodi]

Codes 13 and 14 are air pressure sensor codes. 13 being electrical and 14 being clogged or detached hose.

As you had to mess with the hose when you did a TB sync, the possibility exists the hose may be leaking.

Wouldn't hurt to double check the hose. You can see it and the sensor without raising the tank. LH side, you'll have to get down low and look up..

Messin' with the MAP sensor, not good.

 

[cory1848]

Codes 13 and 14 are air pressure sensor codes. 13 being electrical and 14 being clogged or detached hose.

As you had to mess with the hose when you did a TB sync, the possibility exists the hose may be leaking.

Wouldn't hurt to double check the hose. You can see it and the sensor without raising the tank. LH side, you'll have to get down low and look up..

All hoses connected. Dealer said they were stored codes so could have happened when I did the sync. They cleared them and hadn't returned. If that were still an issue wouldn't codes come back? Also said is the sensor went bad it would through a cel they work on a lot of teneres and never seen one fail. Doesn't mean it's not the problem. If I had time and parts I would just replace the cap and hose. Can't do that today. Have 500 miles ahead of me.

 

[Shovelhead]

::017::

 

[cory1848]

Ok, back from the trip. Bike seemed to run better after Yellowstone but not 100%. Still a lot of vibration under load going uphill. Bike is being shipped back to me from Portland to Orlando so when it gets back I will make appointment with dealer. I will probably recheck TB sync and replace TB vacuum cap and see what it does then. Will check if any codes returned as well. For a 4000 mile trip the bike was awesome. However this little incident has made me question it for longer trips in more remote places. There were some strange codes that the Denver dealer pulled that even had them scratching their head. So hopefully something comes up and can be fixed. Thanks for all the help.

 

[cory1848]

Got the bike back today from Federal Transport. Very easy to ship a bike cross country, they did a great job. Delivered it just as dirty as when I dropped it off and quickly. 9 days from Portland OR to Orlando FL.

Bike started right up and rode well. Once hot, surging idea came back. I have put together a list of checks that I will run the by dealer, but wondering if I can solve these myself, or let the dealer look completely over it. Just concerned that the dealer won't find anything and then charge me for time, rather than bill warranty.

1. Bike seems to run hot. Gets up to temp and doesn't want to cool down, even in 40 degree weather moving at 50mph, it was still in the high 190s to 205 range. Should have been 160-170 range.
2. Vibration under load. Bike was heavily loaded and going uphill it would vibrate really badly above 4K RPMs. This coupled with hot running, makes me wonder if its too lean. Noticing bluing in header pipes as well. Not sure how to correct that. ECU was flashed.
3. Leaving Yellowstone Old Faithful, 60 degrees out, started up and throttle stuck open at 4K. Had to rev it a couple of times and was about to kill the engine when it magically went away. Only happened once.
4. Seems underpowered. No kick in the pants jolt when giving a fist full of throttle. Although today, back in Florida, a good throttle jolt in 2nd gear lifted the front wheel.
5. It did have one very hard start in CO, Had to really crank it over to the point I thought the battery would die then it caught. Almost like it was flooded. Ran like crap for a bit and smelled like gas then it cleared out.
6 Codes: I don't remember 100% what codes were pulled before the dealer cleared them in Denver, but I remember 13, 14, 15, and him talking about lean angle sensor, coolant sensor and something to do with ECU. Makes me wonder if the AC flash had something to do with it but I doubt it.

Pulled codes (I believe) this morning and I am going to start a new thread just on those to figure out what they mean.

 

[shrekonwheels]

Will be interesting to see whats up, almost sounds like a fueling issue.

 

[VPS1]

Intake leak? Vacum leak?

 

[cory1848]

Posted the code run down here

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=16974.0

I think it is TPS related, which would affect fueling and the crappy running. Trying to get as much info as possible so when bringing to dealer I am armed with some info.

 

[Nimbus]

I wonder if you have several unrelated issues? I noticed my bike vibrating significantly for the first time last year on a trip with my wife to the Great Smokies. We were two up and fully loaded and the bike felt like it was 'lugging' up some of the grades. I assumed it was just a lot of weight to be dragging up a mountain in 5th gear and so downshifted. Same story over the past week on a 1900 mile trip two up and fully loaded to Quebec. I found that a little pressure on the clutch made the vibration go completely away. I am 100% sure it is simply the stupid clutch basket (my FZ-09 does the same thing).

Mine has also given me a "stuck" throttle that didn't go away as nicely as yours. Mine has done it repeatedly and it usually comes along with a symptom of a very low idle (this happened only once on our trip as we were waiting in a long line to cross the border into Niagra Falls and the bike was on the fan at 220 for a half hour). I recently did a valve adjustment and everything has been great since (except the border crossing glitch that went right away with a blip of the throttle).

Your temp issue is definitely a problem and I'd be most worried about that. If it isn't a bad thermostat or bubble in the cooling system then I have no idea. The obvious question (and one that I feel is too dumb to ask) is whether something is blocking your radiator?

 

[Don in Lodi]

Hmm, sucked a bird or maybe a wind blown plastic bag into the air inlet... That's the reason Jaxon came up with his inlet grills, he sucked a bird in once.

 

[cory1848]

I wonder if you have several unrelated issues? I noticed my bike vibrating significantly for the first time last year on a trip with my wife to the Great Smokies. We were two up and fully loaded and the bike felt like it was 'lugging' up some of the grades. I assumed it was just a lot of weight to be dragging up a mountain in 5th gear and so downshifted. Same story over the past week on a 1900 mile trip two up and fully loaded to Quebec. I found that a little pressure on the clutch made the vibration go completely away. I am 100% sure it is simply the stupid clutch basket (my FZ-09 does the same thing).

Mine has also given me a "stuck" throttle that didn't go away as nicely as yours. Mine has done it repeatedly and it usually comes along with a symptom of a very low idle (this happened only once on our trip as we were waiting in a long line to cross the border into Niagra Falls and the bike was on the fan at 220 for a half hour). I recently did a valve adjustment and everything has been great since (except the border crossing glitch that went right away with a blip of the throttle).

Your temp issue is definitely a problem and I'd be most worried about that. If it isn't a bad thermostat or bubble in the cooling system then I have no idea. The obvious question (and one that I feel is too dumb to ask) is whether something is blocking your radiator?

Interesting that you seem to have similar issues that I have experienced. I tried the pressure on clutch level method and the vibs did lessen a bit, but the shaking/lugging did not. It was not smooth. I could try the basket swap but would rather have the warranty pay for it. Radiator system has never been opened, to my knowledge anyways. Level in tank is normal, fan works wells and cools the system from 219 back to 208 in a short time. But it does seem like something is blocking the flow as it returns to hot shortly after. Interesting though as I expect heat like this in Florida, but not in the high mountains of Denver or even in Kansas.

Bike now has 7500 miles on it. Wont be doing a valve check anytime soon. Need to wash bike and to a check over then schedule appt at dealer. The 15 code has me concerned.

For the lugging up grades, I expected a 1200 twin to handle that without issue even with a load. Was expecting too much perhaps? Ran similar loads when I had my Tiger 800XC and never experienced strain on the engine or chassis shaking vibration like this. Different engine but similar power outputs.

Does the ECU automatically adjust fueling for altitude?

 

[cory1848]

Hmm, sucked a bird or maybe a wind blown plastic bag into the air inlet... That's the reason Jaxon came up with his inlet grills, he sucked a bird in once.

Seriously a bird? lol. If it were only that simple... Need to check that. Didnt think of the air inlets.

 

[Ramseybella]

The 14 clutch basket solved a bunch of vibe issues on my 2012.
Try replacing the coolant and thermostat flush the system pull the cap and run it till it burps, I use Engine Ice coolant.
Did you mention low gas mileage and 1/2 qt low on oil?
I noticed this on my old 2010 Triumph Tiger 1050 running super slab 12hrs straight at high speed from Santa Fe to Idaho falls, summer temps 100+ from Cortez to Salt Lake and lost a qt of oil from Santa Fe to Idaho falls.
Gas MPG was toast by the time I hit Pocatello at 1am.
My last trip 1128 mile Colorado loop 90% mountain passes full load and at oil change lost over half quart and I did notice lower mpg heading into New Mexico on the way back.
I use my Average mpg indicator to keep an eye on my gas mileage, watching the real time will drive you mad.
No doubt the older Tenere's have some issues that the 14 had resolved, a flash on my 2012 has put this bike in it's place.
If it's hot and your doing a long constant high speed ride and putting a load on any bike, in my opinion it will drink oil.
Thing about this bike is the stupid window (no dip stick Ala Triumph) you don't know how much you need to put in during a trip, Mine was substantially above the half mark midway through my trip!!
When was the last time you checked or changed your rear drive fluid?

I agree you have an issue we are shooting at the elusive Gremlin as to finding out what it is.
When you do let us know.

 

[cory1848]

The 14 clutch basket solved a bunch of vibe issues on my 2012.
Try replacing the coolant and thermostat flush the system pull the cap and run it till it burps, I use Engine Ice coolant.
Did you mention low gas mileage and 1/2 qt low on oil?
I noticed this on my old 2010 Triumph Tiger 1050 running super slab 12hrs straight at high speed from Santa Fe to Idaho falls, summer temps 100+ from Cortez to Salt Lake and lost a qt of oil from Santa Fe to Idaho falls.
Gas MPG was toast by the time I hit Pocatello at 1am.
My last trip 1128 mile Colorado loop 90% mountain passes full load and at oil change lost over half quart and I did notice lower mpg heading into New Mexico on the way back.
I use my Average mpg indicator to keep an eye on my gas mileage, watching the real time will drive you mad.
No doubt the older Tenere's have some issues that the 14 had resolved, a flash on my 2012 has put this bike in it's place.
If it's hot and your doing a long constant high speed ride and putting a load on any bike, in my opinion it will drink oil.
Thing about this bike is the stupid window (no dip stick Ala Triumph) you don't know how much you need to put in during a trip, Mine was substantially above the half mark midway through my trip!!
When was the last time you checked or changed your rear drive fluid?

I agree you have an issue we are shooting at the elusive Gremlin as to finding out what it is.
When you do let us know.

Hasnt used oil. Still in middle of sight glass. ECU is flashed as well. Engine Oil and FD fluid was changed just before the trip, sitting at 4000 miles now so will change again soon. It was switched to Synthetic from Dyno. Average MPG was sitting at 40.5 mpg when I got to Portland. I didnt check the averages when in Colorado but the gauge started flashing at around 120 mile mark so it was very low.

The running hot, low gas milage, lugging vibration above 4k rpm, hard start one time and then the Fault code 15 on d13 I hope is all related somehow. Hoping for a simple fix but need to get it to the dealer so they can check.

All of the reading I see on the clutch basket is a vib between 2800-3200 RPMs. The vibs I am experiencing is above 4k. I can feel it start about 3800 and it tapers off around 4500. It is not a buzzy vib but a shaking vib. Feel it in the pegs, bars and seat. Will be checking motor mounts as well.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I've been following along and think the TPS is a red herring, as is the clutch. The only way the clutch would make it run hot would be lots of slipping and you surely would have noticed. The TPS controls the throttle bodies as a set, which again would not relate to heat or vibration.


What you describe sounds like one cylinder pulling the other along, which is frequently a vacuum/intake leak, bad ignition for one cylinder, or developing a timing issue. The latter could be due to input of a faulty sensor or the ECU. With both of those, you get the heavy vibration and can have symptoms come & go.


My suggestion is to take at least a 15 minute ride on the highway with it mis-behaving. If you have an IR thermometer, get a temp for each exhaust right at the engine. Even a well-running engine will have a bit of a difference, but you are looking for a big one. A big difference ought to rule out an individual cylinder versus an overall issue, such as ignition timing. If you don't have an IR thermometer available, pull the spark plugs and see if one cylinder has dark tips and the other white or light grey. Start the process of ruling things out. A vacuum leak usually will cause only one cylinder to run lean.


While the tank is up, make sure the throttle linkages are working together and not physically out of sync.


Obviously, you can make sure there is nothing obvious giving an intake leak at this point. My son's VStrom last week had symptoms sounding like yours and we found a throttle body leaking badly at the boot.


Ignition can affect one cylinder or both. If you have one white plug tip, swap coils to see if you can make the problem move.


My next step to suggest would be looking at the ECU and it's inputs. There have been a couple of ECU's over the years which have gone bad or had owners damage the connectors when getting them flashed, which you reported that you have had done. If you start looking at the ECU and since you are in Kissimmee FL with a 2013 bike, you may be able to find somebody who would be willing to let you try their ECU, or (less risk) to put your ECU in their bike for a test. Before shelling out BIG bucks for a replacement, get in contact with ACV8130 and talk about what Tony may be able to do for you. He may be able to rule an ECU fault out or get your ECU to mis-behave when connected to his computer.


My guess is that you'll have it figured out by this point, but if you still have nothing, start to look at the inputs to the ECU. It may not report a bad sensor if this is only an output error on the part of the sensor. My thought would go to timing or perhaps oxygen.


Thanks for keeping us educated with your progress.

 

[cory1848]

I've been following along and think the TPS is a red herring, as is the clutch. The only way the clutch would make it run hot would be lots of slipping and you surely would have noticed. The TPS controls the throttle bodies as a set, which again would not relate to heat or vibration.


What you describe sounds like one cylinder pulling the other along, which is frequently a vacuum/intake leak, bad ignition for one cylinder, or developing a timing issue. The latter could be due to input of a faulty sensor or the ECU. With both of those, you get the heavy vibration and can have symptoms come & go.


My suggestion is to take at least a 15 minute ride on the highway with it mis-behaving. If you have an IR thermometer, get a temp for each exhaust right at the engine. Even a well-running engine will have a bit of a difference, but you are looking for a big one. A big difference ought to rule out an individual cylinder versus an overall issue, such as ignition timing. If you don't have an IR thermometer available, pull the spark plugs and see if one cylinder has dark tips and the other white or light grey. Start the process of ruling things out. A vacuum leak usually will cause only one cylinder to run lean.


While the tank is up, make sure the throttle linkages are working together and not physically out of sync.


Obviously, you can make sure there is nothing obvious giving an intake leak at this point. My son's VStrom last week had symptoms sounding like yours and we found a throttle body leaking badly at the boot.


Ignition can affect one cylinder or both. If you have one white plug tip, swap coils to see if you can make the problem move.


My next step to suggest would be looking at the ECU and it's inputs. There have been a couple of ECU's over the years which have gone bad or had owners damage the connectors when getting them flashed, which you reported that you have had done. If you start looking at the ECU and since you are in Kissimmee FL with a 2013 bike, you may be able to find somebody who would be willing to let you try their ECU, or (less risk) to put your ECU in their bike for a test. Before shelling out BIG bucks for a replacement, get in contact with ACV8130 and talk about what Tony may be able to do for you. He may be able to rule an ECU fault out or get your ECU to mis-behave when connected to his computer.


My guess is that you'll have it figured out by this point, but if you still have nothing, start to look at the inputs to the ECU. It may not report a bad sensor if this is only an output error on the part of the sensor. My thought would go to timing or perhaps oxygen.


Thanks for keeping us educated with your progress.

Thanks, that info helps. Tony is the one who flashed my ECU so thats a good idea. I will check over connectors and looks for bent pins. Though if a pin got bend on install, why would it take 400 miles for the problem to present itself.... Havent had time to recheck TB sync. But I did notice that the left boot has gas residue on it. Like it was or is leaking gas. I dont have an IR thermometer unfortunately. All good suggestions but with the bike being under warranty, should I let the dealer figure all this out?

Lots of work to do, thats for sure. I couldn't imagine a better bike for a trip like I just did though. Maybe a RDL seat is in the future but other than that, I plan on having this bike for a long time. So need to get it running correctly again.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Duh - My bad on missing that you still have warranty.
:


Definitely I'd let the dealer chase it.


The left boot sounds like something to really look at first if you are going to do this yourself.


There can be a couple of issues with the ECU which come back not to bent pins, but to atmospheric integrity. If the connector or body seals are not intact, moisture can create shorts or corrosion. I'm actually dealing with one of those at work; with a magnifying glass you can see tracks on the white plastic of some connectors and the tracks run between pins. There are also dried water marks.


I wasn't saying to do the full TBS again, but to make sure the throttle linkages are working together. Obviously, hooking up the vacuum never hurts either and could give a clue.