Is the Government shutdown effecting your life?

Dirt_Dad

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Karson said:
I think the Constitution was only designed to work with a true representative republic. Right now, what we have is not a Congress that represents The People. Rather, one that represents their campaign donors.
Yes, and no. As GrahamD said, it's all about power. That is exactly what it's about. We have career politicians on both sides that care only about managing their careers. They do care about catering to their campaign donors, but will not hesitate to replace one set of donors with a another set that will be more beneficial to their career. We don't have representatives, we have people who are experts at maintaining their own power at any cost.

Until there is true term limits I don't believe thing will get fixed. Maybe the reboot will fix it, but impossible to predict the outcome of that.
 

Ramseybella

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The Sheeple need to start growing teeth as the poles are showing they are not liking what is going on with the so called leaders.
But once this settles down it will be tranquilizer time again for the Sheeple and back to Iworld and buying off world products and wondering what Miley Cyrus will be wearing next.

And while this is going on Detroit wins pledge for $350 million in new financing from Barclays..

http://www.freep.com/article/20131011/NEWS01/310110131/Detroit-debtor-in-possession-financing-Barclays-Chapter-9-bankruptcy
 

SFC E

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My wife works for the DOD overseas and I'm retired military. We are just happy to have savings since all of our income comes from Uncle Sam's pockets. Many of our friends over here are really nervous, since life abroad is really expensive and some have mortgages stateside, me included. People are back to work but last week our little American community abroad was at a standstill. Heck, we didn't even have t.v. services. The school teachers weren't furloughed so at least the kids were still in school.
 

Checkswrecks

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Dirt_Dad said:
Yes, and no. As GrahamD said, it's all about power. That is exactly what it's about. We have career politicians on both sides that care only about managing their careers. They do care about catering to their campaign donors, but will not hesitate to replace one set of donors with a another set that will be more beneficial to their career. We don't have representatives, we have people who are experts at maintaining their own power at any cost.

Until there is true term limits I don't believe thing will get fixed. Maybe the reboot will fix it, but impossible to predict the outcome of that.

::026::
You hit it.


Single term limits are needed, but would take a Constitutional Convention, setting off a free-for-all on basic changes to our nation and society.


I don't work directly for any appointees or politicians but am senior enough to be in regular contact. An interesting thing over my quarter century+ as a Fed has been watching the change of attitude in most politicians and appointees who are re-nominated and keep a position for many years. It happens to some of the senior management too, especially in the bigger agencies.


When they first come to DC, few are pompous, they are almost ALL willing to listen, and every one wants to do "the right thing." It's actually pretty easy to spot who will lose it first, as they are the ones who quickest move from walking around, listening to staff (if ever), and enjoying hall talk; to becoming bosses who are seldom seen.


After the first term, nearly all become entrenched and like all humans, have developed a core group of supporters. What makes the politicians and appointees different is that they are all extrovert alphas with egos. To simply get to have such a job requires individuals who network incessantly as leaders. Sound like your peers at lunch on any particular day? What is highly visible to us as staff is that the pols & appointees ALL need external validation from other people. They draw supporters who tend to be "yes" people, validating their thoughts and comments to get some of that power. Nearly all people have some of this need for external support, but the pols NEED it to USE it. Power is a closed loop.


Over and over the majority lose the ability to listen. They are leaders, after all, making thing things the way they see and believe that life should be from their perspective. Think about what your view would be if you had most lunches and dinners with people who represent something constantly complementing you adn trying to be your friend. Increasingly with time, the pols and appointees make changes that they wouldn't have when they arrived.


On their departure I regularly ask how they think they have changed. The answer is almost universally that they feel they've had to learn the system but that they as individuals kept on "doing the right thing." We humans generally don't see our own changes very well, so yes, I totally agree that there are good solid reasons for single term limits.





And if a Constitutional Convention were to take place, let's just replace the entire House of Representatives with actual voting by the Electorate. That was the original intent. It was an impossible dream in the time of Jefferson, but over 200 years later we have electronic voting. It WILL unleash unintended new issues. And while very few people will actually vote for or against most issues, we already have a number of Congresspeople who miss more than 1 in 10 votes despite being paid to be there. There were almost 122 million people voting in the last Presidential election, which was 57% of the voting population. Even having 1/2% of that turnout would be a heck of a lot more representative of the real population than what we have now.
 

Dirt_Dad

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I'm fully aware that the current crop of "leaders" will tell us they are much too important to us citizens to lose their steady guidance to term limits. How we will suffer as a country if we don't have their "experience" to guide our nation. Of course it's folly, but to push further is to guarantee it goes no where.

So I'm willing to compromise. I'm willing to grandfather in all the current politicians, and only have the term limits effect anyone voted in after the set date. Max 2 terms in the house, 1 term in the senate, 2 as president. I'm very willing to shorten the house and president if you push me. It's not the perfect solution, but it's possible. Unfortunately it will take time to get rid of the precious politician that have been grandfathered in, but eventually they'll be gone. It also greatly reduces the effectiveness of lobbyist who will have much less power getting someone re-elected.

Think of the difference in having a successful businessman in the congress voting on laws he knows he will have to live under in just a couple of years, and for the rest of his professional life. How different would that be from the current crop who exempt themselves from the laws they pass and eventually, miraculously somehow leave far wealthier than when they started. Funny how that happens.

I do believe most elected officials start off with the best of intentions. But power is intoxicating and addicting. When given the opportunity to continue that drug, most will chose to continue. It's simple human nature. We need to recognize that and limit the exposure time for the good of everyone.

Of course, this is my pipe dream. Our population has become soft, disinterested, and unplugged from the attentiveness required to keep good governance alive. I suspect we will continue on the path, slouching away until the entire thing collapses under the weight of debt that can no longer be ignored. I don't know how long that will take to happen, but I have a hard time having faith it can be avoided.
 

rem

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Dirt_Dad said:
Our population has become soft, disinterested, and unplugged from the attentiveness required to keep good governance alive.

And that, my friends, is the problem in a nutshell. Same situation here. That, and "smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go". Thanks to Stan Rogers for that one. Due to the fact that Canada has about 1/10th of the population of the U. S. we don't tend to get into as much trouble as quickly as you do. But we still do a good job of it. Good luck to us all. R
 

Mark R.

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As a free market anarchist / libertarian, I want to put in my two cents. Firstly, I am thrilled that the federal government is “shut down.” This is a criminal organization that obtains every penny of its revenue by forcible extraction under penalty of jail or death or theft of your property if you don’t comply. It’s called taxation.

Its only tool of social organization is the imposition of rules backed by violence. There is no voluntary cooperation occurring or involved when one deals with the feds. It is their way or the highway, or your head will be cracked.

This organization spends its efforts making war on hapless foreign nations as well as the people who live within our borders. It spys, lies, steals, kills, beats, tortures, drones, and attacks all who are in its path. It seeks global hegemony over weaker nations all over the world.

It destroys the currency we are forced to use by "printing" it like mad to "lend" it to itself for the unconscionable debts it is racking up. This destroys the savings of all prudent savers and investors who are forced by legal tender laws to use that currency.

The federal government, and the aggressive and contemptible buffoons who "run" it, have proven time and time again to be the enemy of all people who are not within its inner circle. The notion that "they work for us" is ridiculous on its face, and is a lie designed to lull into a stupor all who believe it.

For those of you who either work for it or are vendors or contractors to it, I say you might ought to get into other lines of work. That organization is headed into the dust bin of history, and the sooner the better IMHO.
The longer the “shut down” lasts, the happier I am.
 

Checkswrecks

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Mark -


While I respect your opinion I disagree and want to remind us of what we have.

Imagine - John Lennon (Live)


History argues against such a utopic existence, because some religion &/or leader will step up.


As a person who has spent a lot of time on almost every continent (I'm short Australia and South Pole) where every type of Government exists, I've seen over and over that nature truly abhors a vacuum. Some type of Government WILL step in and the question is whose. There are countless examples of where non-government has not worked, including us pushing out the American Indians and a number of current feudalistic places in Africa.


It's easy to forget how we got to where we are. We ALL get frustrated, squabble, bitch, moan, and occasionally have left or right parties in power. But in the end, our system has had consistency in leadership and finance. Your kids are safe from mass disease, you don't worry about getting mad cow disease from your food, your heart attack was taken care of at a hospital, you got an education, and you can borrow money to build a business that is not fire bombed or extorted weekly. Without that consistency, you would be here or worse (my photo):



The question is in how leadership is applied and living with whatever rules we have as a community.
Please do vote your feelings, left or right. I will.
 

Mark R.

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I'm not arguing for utopia. That is not possible. But all the advances you cite in your post were and are provided by free men exchanging with each other in peaceful commerce, not by government. Food is provided by farmers, education by private individuals (I never attended public schools), and most hospitals were started by benevolent organizations. Government has NEVER created wealth. It acts only as a parasite on society after wealth has been created by private individuals. Government always has to remind us how important it is.

Most people believe that if government did not do something, that it would not get done by anyone. That is a mind-set that has only recently sprung into existence due to government usurpation of many societal functions that were traditionally started by private groups.

Also, don't believe for a minute that taxation is not extortion. It is exactly that.

What would society look like without a state? Well, libertarian literature abounds with such musings. Try this short article on for size:

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard133.html
 

Dallara

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~


And here I thought this thread wasn't going to turn "political"... And that this forum wasn't the place for such discussions. I certainly never thought I would see it become the pulpit for preaching one political system, social state, or other form of governance. There are certainly more appropriate forums for such discussions, or did I miss something?

Wasn't the original premise of this thread to inquire of how, specifically, the current government shutdown might be affecting the lives, directly, of some members on the Super Tenere forum? ::017::

Dallara



~
 

Mark R.

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Dallara said:
~


Wasn't the original premise of this thread to inquire of how, specifically, the current government shutdown might be affecting the lives, directly, of some on the Super Tenere forum? ::017::

Dallara



~
That was the premise of the thread. My answer was that the shutdown was delighting me, and I posted why..................

This area is called The Lounge, where we can discuss "anything and everything."
 

Dallara

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Mark R. said:
...This area is called The Lounge, where we can discuss "anything and everything."

Point taken...

So I shall leave you to preach, bible thump, and propagandize your prophecies 'til the cows come home. ::002::

Enjoy, and keep rubbing your hands together with glee as others suffer from the shutdown you prayed for!


Dallara




~
 

Dirt_Dad

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Thanks for the reminder, Dallara.

I almost posted a reply to the "short article" that was referenced. As I reconsider that now, there is no way for me to do it and avoid being a party to taking this thread waaaayyy off topic. I'll refrain.

Back to the impact of the government shutdown on Tenere owners...
 

Mark R.

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Unfortunately, the endgame I am looking for - a world without government - will not happen in my lifetime. I don't like to see people suffer either. I just wanted to point out that we must all be careful who we work for, and what the nature of that entity is that might employ us. Government contains so much evil that goes unrecognized, it would have been a shame not to point it out.
 

creggur

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I'm about as libertarian as they come, but anarchy certainly isn't a viable answer to anyone's problems.

The shutdown hasn't affected my business yet, but Jacksonville is a heavy military town with a lot of civilian support that is likely feeling the pinch right now.
 

Bappo

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A few days left before "vacation" here. At leasat I am allowed to use my accrued vacation time so will continue to get paid; just using up vacation time I would not really want to spend right now.

If weather is OK I might just take off on the bike this Friday to points unknown for a couple weeks. Two problems.

My tires are about done. Is there a chance that some dealer, somewhere has tires for the S10 in stock and is willing to do an install? Nothing in stock locally.

I don't know how to get back home if the weather turns for the worst (winter is coming). Do I rent a Uhaul? Crappy decisions for a vacation I really don't want to take.

I would prolly head to the cabin in the UP of Michigan and then go to Missouri to visit family.
 

whizzerwheel

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The longer the government is "shut down" the happier I am. They should shut down some things that will really make a difference though, like the internal revenue service, department of energy, scale back the environmental protection agency....and so on.....
 

Checkswrecks

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Glad you are happy Mark, and I'm not arguing that we can't sustain our spending. Government is a frequently a burden, just as living in a family frequently is.​



But more relevant right now is that we have a system in which people need to be willing to discuss and compromise.​
Somebody who didn't compromise once said "
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.​
" It didn't work then either.





As an update on the OP about how the shutdown affects me/us here:
The 2 of us are about to go into our 3rd week of no paychecks and the bills keep on coming. My ex is sympathetic, but still expects her weekly alimony payments on time. We are actually doing OK, but know a number of people who are living scary deep on their credit cards.


My daughter's PhD research is at a well known med college. Her research is funded by the National Institute of Health so it may get shut down soon. She has been doing cutting edge stuff that I don't really understand. It comes back to a practical way to stop tissue damage immediately after a heart attack and even a 1 day shutdown will cost big bucks because they work with living cells that are extremely difficult, time consuming, & expensive to cultivate.


My son does fire system engineering for a very small private firm. Two of their biggest customers are a couple of VA hospitals. Fortunately, the boss can carry him for a while, hoping for the VA to be able to pay the invoices before too long.


A number of private companies have announced additional lay-offs to start Tuesday, as we go into the 3rd week.


And of course, even if the Government stays shut, missing the default deadline on Thursday will absolutely kill real estate everywhere. That includes the house I've been renovating. Ref: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/opinion/patterson-government-default/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7
 

Karson

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whizzerwheel said:
The longer the government is "shut down" the happier I am. They should shut down some things that will really make a difference though, like the internal revenue service, department of energy, scale back the environmental protection agency....and so on.....
I knew it was only a matter of time before the BS posts started trickling in... ::007::

Just so I understand, you're effectively telling the civilian employees of those agencies you hope they're without a job because they aren't important to "you". Only in a poorly written circular argument?

Shut down some things that will really make a difference! Oooooookkkk!
 
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