HARD START

[dcstrom]

Re: Very hard starting today

So ErikV looks to have a good explanation of all this crap. Flooding.

The LiFePHo4 (see got it right this time) batteries may be worth looking at to help clear the problem though.

WADYARECKON?

I tend to agree that in a lot of cases, it looks like flooding is the cause. But not mine... I just went to start normally, the only difference being that the bike had been sitting a couple of weeks (my old, supposedly temperamental, RG 500, would sit for a year and start second kick. I'm waiting for two-strokes to make a comeback, with direct injection and modern electronics. Current four strokes won't touch them for most purposes... but that's another discussion.)

I don't believe the battery has anything to do with it - mine was cranking normally and for a few minutes before I gave up. The one thing I'd like to see is for it to crank faster, but that's nothing to do with a battery problem either.

But if flooding was the ONLY cause in case like Elizilla's, wouldn't it clear relatively quickly? As I understand she's cranked it quite a bit over the last day, including with WOT, and no go. I still think it's worth pursuing Yam for a better answer (which I'll be doing tomorrow).

Trevor

 

[EricV]

Re: Very hard starting today

Worth what you paid for it, but I have had the FJR fail to start when I just let it sit for a month too. On a batt tender the whole time. She was just pissed at me, I think.

That time, and the other times when I discovered I had essentially flooded it with the early shut down, the bike would bump start, but it took a bit. I did this on a long hill a couple of times and it was easy. Also did it on a pretty minor decline, 2nd gear and she would pop and stutter, but could ve coaxed to life and then ran perfectly. Much like the eventual outcome of WOT and cranking, but w/o as much smoke.

 

[Koinz]

Re: Very hard starting today

Just wondering, has anyone across the pond had this issue? I think someone on the German threads mentioned the initial problem, didn't they?

 

[GrahamD]

Re: Very hard starting today

Just wondering, has anyone across the pond had this issue? I think someone on the German threads mentioned the initial problem, didn't they?

Yes they have, but it tends to happen once and goes away, OR the people with the problem go away.

It was usually associated with a bike wash., but as usual with intermittent problems unless you understand all the variables, you can't reliably repeat it. No one wants to for obvious reasons.

Cheers
Graham

 

[elizilla]

Re: Very hard starting today

I have not washed my bike.

 

[GrahamD]

Re: Very hard starting today

I have not washed my bike.

"People across the pond"

The Three things that seemed to be mentioned more often once the bikes landed in the US were..

Seats
Vibes
Not starting without a wash.

I don't know another language so maybe half of Europe was going off about these issues but I wouldn't know.

 

[20valves]

Re: Very hard starting today

I had a difficult start on Saturday. I hadn't washed the bike before I parked it and hadn't ridden it since a 1,500 mile trip to Arkansas and back in October.

Anyway, it cranked and cranked and didn't catch. I cranked with throttle wide open and it started after about 5 seconds. Started and ran just fine after that. I took it out for about a 20 mile jaunt. Haven't tried to start it since but when I put it on the battery tender, it went to the solid green light within two minutes.

I think it just got lonely and is telling me to ride it more often. ::26::

 

[pluric]

Re: Very hard starting today

I had a difficult start on Saturday. I hadn't washed the bike before I parked it and hadn't ridden it since a 1,500 mile trip to Arkansas and back in October.

Anyway, it cranked and cranked and didn't catch. I cranked with throttle wide open and it started after about 5 seconds. Started and ran just fine after that. I took it out for about a 20 mile jaunt. Haven't tried to start it since but when I put it on the battery tender, it went to the solid green light within two minutes.

I think it just got lonely and is telling me to ride it more often. ::26::

You're confusing it with your wife, well except for the "ride more often" part.

 

[20valves]

Re: Very hard starting today

You're confusing it with your wife, well except for the "ride more often" part.

Whoo, not enough room here on that subject.... :

 

[Turk]

Re: Very hard starting today

from People across the pond....well it happened to me today :

Yesterday I rode the bike with no problems. Today I got dressed up for cold weather and went down to garage to start my bike...it was dead...no sign of power at all...tomorrow I will take the battery out and take it to the dealer..will see if its the battery or not and will go from there... only thing I may have left it on over night was the whistler radar detector..if that took the life out of the battery I will be surprised....will see

 

[dcstrom]

Re: Very hard starting today

Ok - emailed Larry at Romney Cycles today, gave him the links to this thread. He's passing it on to Dan, the mid-Atlantic area rep, who should pass it along up the chain until it gets to someone who can help. Maybe it will need to go all the way to Japan. Hey, wait a minute - we have a direct link with the boys in the Super Tenere team from when we exchanged posters right? Tabasco, let's have those email addresses! >

Trevor

 

[markjenn]

Re: Very hard starting today

...only thing I may have left it on over night was the whistler radar detector..if that took the life out of the battery I will be surprised....will see

1/2 amp draw of the RD x 10 hrs = 5-AH or about half the total capacity of the battery. Yes, this is enough to drag it below starting capability, especially if the battery isn't fully up to snuff.

I think we're starting to mix weak/faulty-battery or operator-error non-starts with the original and more elusive problem where a bike that has a fully-charged battery and was starting fine previously, suddenly will crank fine but won't start. The former is more or less a universal problem across all bikes while the 2nd appears to be something odd about the S10.

- Mark

 

[JohnB]

Re: Very hard starting today

When you fire up the bike, then shut it down w/o allowing it to run long enough to complete the warm up/cold start cycle, it will be mid cycle and far too rich. Now you let it sit, then go to fire it up again, but it re-starts the cold start cycle, and immediately floods the engine. None of this has anything to do with the battery or starter, it's about the electronics, in regards to how the starting sequence is programed.

The lesson here is simply to let the bike warm up fully before you shut it down. I've had this happen on the FJR twice, which is how I figured it out. Resist the urge to just fire it up to see that it still starts, then shut it down, you will be creating a hard start problem for the next time.

I'm going with Eric's explanation. We should be able to verify this with someone at Yamaha. I'm just not sure who or how to get in touch with them.

 

[elizilla]

Re: Very hard starting today

It is alive!

The new Shorai battery arrived today, and after a lot of cranking the bike started. (In fact it took enough cranking that I had to jump it from the car even with the new battery! But the new battery cranked a lot stronger / longer.) As Trevor described with his bike, I had white smoke and my garage smelled of a very rich running engine. The white smoke eventually burned off, and just to be sure I ran the bike until the fan came on. Then I buttoned things back up, suited up, and went for a little ride. The bike fired right up. My garage door opener works, my driving lights work, my heated grips work, and my voltage monitor works. I didn't have my heated jacket on, so I didn't test that hookup. And I didn't have my MP3 player hooked up so I didn't test the comm system - I still want to fiddle with that a bit anyway. I'll test it later. But at this point the bike is back on the road. Yay!

I dropped the original battery off at Batteries Plus for testing, yesterday. They needed it overnight for the test. Today I went back for their report, and they confirmed it was bad.

 

[jajpko]

Re: Very hard starting today

It is alive!

The new Shorai battery arrived today, and after a lot of cranking the bike started. (In fact it took enough cranking that I had to jump it from the car even with the new battery! But the new battery cranked a lot stronger / longer.) As Trevor described with his bike, I had white smoke and my garage smelled of a very rich running engine. The white smoke eventually burned off, and just to be sure I ran the bike until the fan came on. Then I buttoned things back up, suited up, and went for a little ride. The bike fired right up. My garage door opener works, my driving lights work, my heated grips work, and my voltage monitor works. I didn't have my heated jacket on, so I didn't test that hookup. And I didn't have my MP3 player hooked up so I didn't test the comm system - I still want to fiddle with that a bit anyway. I'll test it later. But at this point the bike is back on the road. Yay!

I dropped the original battery off at Batteries Plus for testing, yesterday. They needed it overnight for the test. Today I went back for their report, and they confirmed it was bad.

That's great! Glad to hear you got it going and the new battery is so strong. Let us know if you have to put a load on it before you start the bike after you have had it awhile.
Are you going to take the old battery back to Yamaha?

 

[elizilla]

Re: Very hard starting today

That's great! Glad to hear you got it going and the new battery is so strong. Let us know if you have to put a load on it before you start the bike after you have had it awhile.
Are you going to take the old battery back to Yamaha?

I could carry the OEM battery with me when I go in for the recall, and see if they will warranty it. But if I don't need the replacement it's just one more hazardous household waste item to dispose of someday. I might wait until I've had time to more thoroughly test the Shorai; if I decide to switch back, I can warranty the battery then. Or I suppose I could post it for sale on this forum - anyone else here want a new battery?

 

[stevepsd]

Re: Very hard starting today

Did you go with the larger Shorai (LFX18A1-BS12)?

 

[elizilla]

Re: Very hard starting today

I did get the larger capacity Shorai.

RonH, want to buy a three month old factory battery? I'll make you a great deal on it!

 

[stevepsd]

Re: Very hard starting today

Three month old factory battery is bad? possible but doubtful.

Happens more than you think.

We experienced a failure rate of around 5% on brand-new lead acid batteries in the first 90 days of service.

It is like most electronic items, the key is getting thru the 'infant mortality' period which is usually 90 days. If you do, the item will usually (not always) last for it's design life.

 

[normlman]

Re: Very hard starting today

I purchased my Tenere around three months ago. I have all ready put 5000 miles on it with out a single bit of trouble until this week. My bike will turn over but will not crank. The battery is fine, the bike has not been wet, and I keep it in a heated garage. A local shop is picking it up today to try and find out what is going on. :'(