HARD START

Dirt_Dad

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#1
I got back from a 400 mile ride last Saturday, rinsed the bike enough to get those corrosive little bugs off the front and put it away without restarting.

Today, one week later it did not want to start. Battery seemed fine but it would just sit and crank. I'd crank for a while, give it 1/4 to 1/2 throttle pumps on the throttle...nothing. Took a break, hooked up the battery tender, then went in the house and re-read the thread about hard starting after washing. Back out to try with WOT. It tired to catch, even started for about half a second, then just cranking. Gave it another 10 minute break. Finally it came to life with WOT and a lot of smoke.

Other than the thread here about the warning after washing I have only seen one other person on ADV report hard starting when the temps were low. Has anyone else seen more reports? I'd like to compare notes to what others have experienced.


- End of Dirt_Dad's original post -


THE FOLLOWING HAS BEEN ADDED BY A MODERATOR TO DIRT_DAD's 1st POST AS REFERENCE MATERIAL, SO PEOPLE DON'T NEED TO SEARCH THIS LONG THREAD. THIS THREAD IS ALSO NOW A STICKIE.
The following is a summary by WriteRider in Post #646:
1. Put kill switch in off position.[/size]2. Put the key in and turned it on in neutral.3. Put kill switch in on position. (I couldn't hear the fuel pump). 4. WOT first, then hit starter button.5. Started right up and purred. Let it warm up to about 170 and rode to work.Lessons learned from this sweet thread:1. I will always use the kill switch instead of the key to kill the engine.2. I will always make sure the bike is warmed up to at least 150F if I am going to go a short distance (like getting gas).3. If I ever kill the engine by accident and it doesn't start up on the first try I will immediately do WOT and then hit the starter button.


AND


Three options to clear the cylinders of fuel if the above doesn't work:
1. A number of people just leave the bike for the night and it starts the next morning.
2. Pull the #4 fuse and run the starter with the throttle wide open. The fuse is for the fuel injection system.
3. Rainer in Post 641 gives a button pushing procedure in lieu of pulling fuse #4.



 

Firefight911

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#2
Re: Very hard starting today

"Pumping" a fuel injected engine does nothing.

As for the issue at hand, tough to say, but it sounds as though there may be water getting in to a connector somewhere or a coil stick is grounding out.
 

Dirt_Dad

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#3
Re: Very hard starting today

Firefight911 said:
"Pumping" a fuel injected engine does nothing.
I know, but old habits die hard. Plus every once in a while cracking the throttle just a little seemed to help the DL1000 when it was hard to start.

Hard to imagine water still somewhere on the bike after a week of sitting.
 

Firefight911

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#4
Re: Very hard starting today

I'm gonna go look but the fuel pump is at the base of the tank with all its connections. Water running down could be getting caught near there.

Come on Watson, we've got some investigatin' to do!
 

Koinz

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#5
Re: Very hard starting today

Firefight911 said:
I'm gonna go look but the fuel pump is at the base of the tank with all its connections. Water running down could be getting caught near there.

Come on Watson, we've got some investigatin' to do!
Did you hear the pump cycle when turning the key on. If not, Sounds more like an ignition issue. Might be good to target a stream of Wd40 spray near some of the key areas one spot at a time while trying to start it between each area until you get a confident start.
 

Dirt_Dad

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#6
Re: Very hard starting today

Koinz said:
Did you hear the pump cycle when turning the key on. If not, Sounds more like an ignition issue. Might be good to target a stream of Wd40 spray near some of the key areas one spot at a time while trying to start it between each area until you get a confident start.
Yes, definitely heard the fuel pump when it wasn't starting. Bike starts fine now. Been turned off and restarted about 6 times. No more issue at the moment.
 

Dirt_Dad

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#7
Re: Very hard starting today

Started just fine today. Took it on a 200 mile ride, with no hint of the problem.
 
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#8
Re: Very hard starting today

So what does the fuel pump sound like when the key is turned on? I was working on the bike yesterday (adding a fuse block) and when I turned on the key it sounded like a clock was just turned on.
 

Koinz

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#9
Re: Very hard starting today

Sounds like a high pitched whirl for about 3 seconds when the key is first turned on, then it stops.
 

Spider

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#11
Re: Very hard starting today

Hey Dirt Dad, do you have any other engine mods on your bike, such as a Powercommander? Cant say Im good at washing mine, but it has been through some incredible gullywashers and ran during and after without a hitch.
 

Dirt_Dad

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#13
Re: Very hard starting today

Spider said:
Hey Dirt Dad, do you have any other engine mods on your bike, such as a Powercommander? Cant say Im good at washing mine, but it has been through some incredible gullywashers and ran during and after without a hitch.
No engine mods at all right now. Mine rode through Hurricane Irene for 6 hours in Vermont then sat outside in the storm for another 10 hours or so while we dried off at the hotel. It fired up without hesitation the next morning, and every other time for the next 4 days of the trip. After that you could understand why I thought it was immune to any simple water issues.
 

3putt

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#14
Re: Very hard starting today

Okay, now I have this. Only I did not wash mine. Just rode in from 400 mile trip from Eureka Springs, Ar. Sunday. Cranked last night while working on autocom mod for helmet to see if I could hear the radio over the engine noise. No problems. Still working on the helmet ER6 mod this morning, go to try it, will not crank, just turns over. Like you I opened the throttle all the way and it tried to catch but died and more cranking. I'm on charge right now and will wait 15 minutes to see if it will fire.

Will pay close attention to see if the fuel pump is running. Very strange.

P.S. I rode in some showers saturday and got drenched, but no problems then or the next mornings ride home.
 

3putt

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#15
Re: Very hard starting today

Okay, we are up and running agin. I opened the throttle 3/4 to WOT and cranked till it started. Blew black smoke briefly and runs fine now, starts like a top. Only thing I can figure is that while I have been working on this radio connection and turning the bike on to test the setup (but not cranking) it somehow got flooded.

Anyway, no biggie now, all fine.
 

Kevhunts

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#16
Re: Very hard starting today

Tremor38 said:
That's interesting. I wonder if something is awry about fuel feed to the injectors. Seems like there should be no fuel spraying into the cylinders until air is drawn past a flow sensor of some sort. Having something equivalent to a Haynes manual with a short principles of operation section should make for an informative read. Do we have any 'budding experts' on the S10's EFI system?
Repeatedly pressurizing the fuel rail by cycling the key along with a slight drip (or leaky) fuel injector could be the cause?
 

Dirt_Dad

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#17
Re: Very hard starting today

Kevhunts said:
Repeatedly pressurizing the fuel rail by cycling the key along with a slight drip (or leaky) fuel injector could be the cause?
Don't know, but it does not describe the situation before my hard to start episode.
 

Koinz

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#18
Re: Very hard starting today

Kevhunts said:
Repeatedly pressurizing the fuel rail by cycling the key along with a slight drip (or leaky) fuel injector could be the cause?
Turning the key on and off repeatedly on a fuel injected vehicle of any kind is equivalent to pumping the throttle too much on a carbureted one. You can still flood a fuel injected engine.

The fuel injected system should always hold a pressure even when turned off. If it doesn't hold a pressure, it could also cause hard starting which would mean the pressure regulator is bad, but would eventually start as the pressure built up.

People who have had hard starting with tenere reported black smoke upon startup with the throttle open. This would indicate the fuel system is fine and there is an ignition problem.
 

Combo

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#19
Re: Very hard starting today

Koinz said:
Turning the key on and off repeatedly on a fuel injected vehicle of any kind is equivalent to pumping the throttle too much on a carbureted one. You can still flood a fuel injected engine.

The fuel injected system should always hold a pressure even when turned off. If it doesn't hold a pressure, it could also cause hard starting which would mean the pressure regulator is bad, but would eventually start as the pressure built up.

People who have had hard starting with tenere reported black smoke upon startup with the throttle open. This would indicate the fuel system is fine and there is an ignition problem.
I have not had this problem but what sort of an ignition problem could that be Koinz :question:
 

Koinz

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#20
Re: Very hard starting today

Combo said:
I have not had this problem but what sort of an ignition problem could that be Koinz :question:
I think that's what we were trying to isolate. Wd40 could be used to try and isolate the area affecting a weak or no spark condition.

I haven't had the problem either. Typically it's water or moisture in the spark plug tower shorting to ground or near the coil packs. Dielectric grease works well in these areas. I replaced a couple of coil sticks on my BMW oil head because of rust buildup on the left side. A liberal amount of dielectric helped a lot.
 
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