Skidding with ABS

[Blue_eyes]

I doubt this is much of an explanation video, but it is what happens if you turn off ABS. No real surprises here.

Super Tenere No TCS

Turn off TCS you mean.

 

[20valves]

doing the unthinkable off road I grabbed a handful of front brake.

I have never found that unthinkable. I find it unthinkable to NOT use the front brake off road. ::002::

That's a nice bit of bragging on your experience, I'll not bore you and everyone else here with my own resume. :

If you do not need ABS, pull the ABS fuse when you go off road and you'll have the bike you want.

 

[Firefight911]

I have never found that unthinkable. I find it unthinkable to NOT use the front brake off road. ::002::

That's a nice bit of bragging on your experience, I'll not bore you and everyone else here with my own resume. :

If you do not need ABS, pull the ABS fuse when you go off road and you'll have the bike you want.

Thought the same thing, the front brake is still the most effective brake for stopping whether street or dirt.

Now, back to the original oil, err, crush washer, err ABS thread...... ::002:: ::002::

 

[fender5803]

Turn off TCS you mean.

I thought TCS also ....

If you do not need ABS, pull the ABS fuse when you go off road and you'll have the bike you want.

Is pulling the fuse the best way to disable ABS-? Is it OK to do and better than running in gear on the center stand-?
If pulling the fuse disables it would it be fairly easy to wire in a on-off or bypass switch of some kind ... I'm thinking I even saw one someplace like Eastern Beaver ....
Best, DT

::022::

 

[dcstrom]

The only way I got it slowed down was by doing the unthinkable off road I grabbed a handful of front brake. That is totally fine for pavement but a front brake and off road is not the method of choice for that type surface.

Yeah back brake only on the S10 doesn't do shit on dirt. You have to get your head around grabbing a handful of front brake and letting the ABS do the work. Once you do I guarantee you will stop faster than you ever have off road using the back brake on a non-abs bike. And when using both brakes (as you should) there's no risk of locking the front and going down. The ABS will use whatever traction is available. The only thing you have to do is avoid getting sucked into corners going too fast after getting you confidence up...

But there are options if you don't want to learn new tricks ::025::

For me, I would really like to be able to lock the back but keep ABS active on the front. I don't think anyones come up with a solution for that yet? MAYBE with all the guys starting to dip into programming ECU's now, that's something they could look at?

Trevor

 

[fender5803]

If you run the bike on the centerstand in gear for more than 15-secs or so it faults/disables the ABS. (Some have said you need to be in 2nd and rev the engine, but 1st and idle will fault mine.) The ABS light blink for the 15-secs and then go steady. When it is steady, the ABS fault will "stick" and the ABS will be off until you cycle the ignition. The TCS and check engine lights also illuminate, but the check engine light will go out when your ride away.

It is odd that on the next start, it appears if the system is still faulted as the ABS light will be steady. But as soon as you ride off the ABS system re-initializes and the light goes out. If you want to fault it again, I don't know if you have to go through an ABS on cycle to get it to turn off again.

- Mark

Hot topic. Is there a previous thread dealing with this, I didn't do a search.
Thanks Mark for details on your findings. I'll give it a try on mine soon. I have never ridden off road much so I think I would be better with any help in the beginning, if I ever do get to dirt and I hope I do this year, if only a fire road.
I am assuming since you found the TCS light on as well that that is disabled like when we hold down the side button for a few seconds.
It does seem like there could be a kit or harness for doing a easy bypass switch ... maybe I have missed something
-DT

::022::

 

[roy]

isn't T4 the high speed crest after the T2/3 combo? May we speaka different turns..but I had a vesra guy back it in, past 5 other riders into what I call T5 (maybe your T4??)

It has been called T5 or T4, I stick with 4. Either way it's charlottes web turn and I ain't scared of it on a real motorcycle with real brakes Backing it in there is by no means the fastest way through the turn but if you are raacing and come in up the inside it will scare the chit out of the outside riders enough to make the pass. Doing it at a trackday is simply for looks and a thrill.....and to see the corner worker throw a yellow flag unecessarily ;D

 

[roy]

Yeah back brake only on the S10 doesn't do shit on dirt. You have to get your head around grabbing a handful of front brake and letting the ABS do the work. Once you do I guarantee you will stop faster than you ever have off road using the back brake on a non-abs bike. And when using both brakes (as you should) there's no risk of locking the front and going down. The ABS will use whatever traction is available. The only thing you have to do is avoid getting sucked into corners going too fast after getting you confidence up...

But there are options if you don't want to learn new tricks ::025::

For me, I would really like to be able to lock the back but keep ABS active on the front. I don't think anyones come up with a solution for that yet? MAYBE with all the guys starting to dip into programming ECU's now, that's something they could look at?

Trevor

y'all just have never rode a REAL dirtbike obviously. : Seriously telling people to grab a hand full of front brake is the equivilant to suicide on dirt. I got by with that in my circumstance due to many years of competition racing track riding and serious off road riding. I'm not saying don't ever touch a front brake on a dirtbike but you don't use it very often or at least fast guys don't. Yes once your an expert a certain amount of front trail braking will help but that's not for every one. An off road riders crutch is the rear brake with no friggin ABS. ::010:: It is used to steer the bike as well. Let's not fool our selves here into thinking the S10 is a dirtbike, it's not, no where near it. It's a big nice touring streetbike capable of a gravel road or three something all motorcycles will do. I know the difference between a real dirtbike and a streetbike. This is all fun and games until someone gets killed on this thing off road due to the ABS. Trust me it's going to happen. I am not here to debate the ABS non ABS issue I simply do not think everyone should be told it's ok it'll do it all for you, it won't! ABS has it's place and that place is not off road. Anyone tells you different is clueless about the differences and what ever I say or someone else says won't change it.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Add me to the list of people who definitely use lots of front brake in the dirt. Including on my old KTM 520 EXC and Honda CRF450X. As a kid I had the idea that front was dangerous in the dirt, but I've long since learned it's the most effective brake... period. I'll use it sparingly if leaned over in a corner, but otherwise, give me tons of front brake.

 

[eemsreno]

Yes lets get to the bottem of this, someome should have told me this isn't a real birt bike.
Right, This thing is the best off road Touring Bike I've ever rode.

 

[roy]

Add me to the list of people who definitely use lots of front brake in the dirt. Including on my old KTM 520 EXC and Honda CRF450X. As a kid I had the idea that front was dangerous in the dirt, but I've long since learned it's the most effective brake... period. I'll use it sparingly if leaned over in a corner, but otherwise, give me tons of front brake.

My last dirtbike was a RMZ450, front tire was never on the ground so using a front brake was a mute point to begin with. I ride more dirt tracker style anyway so what works for me might not be for everyone. I think most are reading into what I am saying and trying to find a flaw. Front brake is used on the dirt but that was on bikes with no damn ABS grabbing letting go grabbing letting go. : The way I had to slow the S10 that one time was not the correct way to stop a motorcycle off road. Y'all keep doing what ever flips your burger, a body cast awaits you when that big 600# monster tucks the front end from excessive panic on the front brake or simply goes over the edge of the mountain because it wouldn't stop. ::009::

 

[roy]

Yes lets get to the bottem of this, someome should have told me this isn't a real birt bike.
Right, This thing is the best off road Touring Bike I've ever rode.

It's not a dirtbike, photo opps where you rode in 1st gear to take this picture don't count never will. A real dirtbike will make this pig look so stupid off road it's complete nonsense to even talk of a comparison. : most places this thing goes my Bking could go ::025::


BTW this was an ABS discussion ::010::

 

[Tremor38]

Re: Re: Skidding with ABS

y'all just have never rode a REAL dirtbike obviously. : Seriously telling people to grab a hand full of front brake is the equivilant to suicide on dirt. I got by with that in my circumstance due to many years of competition racing track riding and serious off road riding. I'm not saying don't ever touch a front brake on a dirtbike but you don't use it very often or at least fast guys don't. Yes once your an expert a certain amount of front trail braking will help but that's not for every one. An off road riders crutch is the rear brake with no friggin ABS. ::010:: It is used to steer the bike as well. Let's not fool our selves here into thinking the S10 is a dirtbike, it's not, no where near it. It's a big nice touring streetbike capable of a gravel road or three something all motorcycles will do. I know the difference between a real dirtbike and a streetbike. This is all fun and games until someone gets killed on this thing off road due to the ABS. Trust me it's going to happen. I am not here to debate the ABS non ABS issue I simply do not think everyone should be told it's ok it'll do it all for you, it won't! ABS has it's place and that place is not off road. Anyone tells you different is clueless about the differences and what ever I say or someone else says won't change it.

:

 

[eemsreno]

This was the farthest thing from a photo opp, I rode the Mill Creek Arkansas trail all day Sunday with my son, I'll put up a ride report soon , Is ruff atv trails and my bike just ate them up.

 

[Firefight911]

I love it, the more he speaks, the more we know about the less he knows.

You can lead a horse to water.....oh, wait, this horse is dead. ::002:: ::002:: In that case, get off the horse.

 

[dcstrom]

no damn ABS grabbing letting go grabbing letting go.

a body cast awaits you when that big 600# monster tucks the front end from excessive panic on the front brake or simply goes over the edge of the mountain because it wouldn't stop. ::009::

That's what I'm trying to tell you Roy - it doesn't tuck the front. You have to toss out your old habits and try it. If you want to do rear wheel steering, it's not real good for that if you need to lock the rear to get the thing turned - but if you know that's how you like to ride then get a dirt bike or pull the ABS fuse and turn off TCS.

It also doesn't "grab and let" go - at least not in the usual ABS fashion. It does it so quickly it feels very smooth and controlled. The only time I feel anything like that is the last few feet prior to stopping.

As for your statement about somebody getting killed because of the ABS - could happen I guess, but it will save more lives than it will cost.

Trevor

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I can agree that my 600+lb Tenere feels less flickable than my old 275lb dirt bike. They do require a different approach to negotiating technical terrain, but I could not be happier with how my Tenere can easily take me 500 miles a day on the road and still give me a competent ride in the dirt.

 

[markjenn]

I am assuming since you found the TCS light on as well that that is disabled like when we hold down the side button for a few seconds.

Yes, I think if you fault the ABS with the "running on the centerstand trick" you also disable TCS.

It does seem like there could be a kit or harness for doing a easy bypass switch ... maybe I have missed something

Lots of talk about ABS disable kits, but little action from the aftermarket. Probably because of liability concerns and/or wanting to do it in a way that has no side effects such as leaving other electrical systems disabled. I believe there are one or perhaps two overseas vendors who sell a kit of some sort, and there is a DIY somewhere on here about which fuse to pull. But I don't think there is anything which is both readily available at low cost and truly plug-n-play.

The other long ABS thread (referenced earlier) is worth reading, although like this one, you have to wade through the "ABS on this bike is so good thou shalt not ever want to turn it off" vs. "ABS is totally worthless and a band-aid for sucky riders" viewpoints.

- Mark

 

[GrahamD]

I get what Roy is saying and have no beef if he wants it disabled. I have never read anywhere from experienced dirt riders that YAMAHA solved the ABS issue for all people in all circumstances.

All they have done is combine the Unified braking and ABS very well and moved the goal posts forward. Some peoples style will not be suitable, some people can't get themselves to learn new habits. So be it. I for one am concerned that the plus sides of learning UBS/ABS habits may end up being down sides if I jump on a non UBS/ABS bike. But on the other hand I put that in the Auto/manual category. Same stuff. I have been almost rear ended a few times in the past because when I went to disengage the clutch I ended up with tyre smoke instead. I just had to engage the brain a bit more for the next 30 minutes.

But what I can't understand (yet) is why installing a switch and a 30Amp relay is such a big problem?

I mean does a DRZ come with ABS, TCS and UBS? If the answer is NO, then pull the front or rear sensor, Fault the system OR install a switch and a fuse or just pull the whole lot out and save some weight. Then you have a non nanny bike just like a DRZ except bigger and less off road capable and nuclear powered.

I am sure the total cost of all this, in time and money, will not be the kind of thing you will regret lying on your death bed. Just install the switch.

This is not a technical problem at all is it? Really.

 

[AlsoRan]

I love it, the more he speaks, the more we know about the less he knows.

You can lead a horse to water.....oh, wait, this horse is dead. ::002:: ::002:: In that case, get off the horse.

Exactly!