Power Commander V - Feed back from owners -- please

[jajpko]

I would like to get some feedback from owners who have had the PCV installed, including those that may have done it themselves.
There have been a number of these sold and some feedback would be very helpful for all of us that are using this setup.
What modifications have you done? Ect. PCV, Auto Tune, Headers, Can, anything else.

How do you like the way the bike runs? How is it off throttle, Mid range and top end?
Fuel MPG?
Have you had a Dyno run?
Anything else you can think of.

I installed the PCV with Auto Tune and Optimizer, along with Arrow Headers and Leo vince can.

Have been testing different maps, along with Jaxon. Two heads are better than one. lol And We have a great winter map. Bike is nice off the line and pulls hard in low, mid and top end.
I had a chance to run the same map in 70* weather and I can see where a different map will be needed for hotter weather.
My fuel mileage is about 38 when cranking on the throttle and it will climb to about 39 if I stay under 4k.
Like I said this is a good power map.

When it was 70+ yesterday, I started working on another map and got good results. Leaned it out a bit, but still pulls good, with much better MPG.
When it warms up in the spring, I will finish tweaking this map.

Later on, I plan on doing a Dyno run to see how close I am. Oh, forgot, I am at 1000' above sea level.

Ok, that's it for me.
Next up.....

 

[Omaha Tenere]

Jim,

I have purchased the exact same config as you although it is not installed (parts still arriving) - Arrow headers, Vince can, AT and PCV. Jaxon has shared his (and yours I assume) maps. I live in Omaha Nebraska and am anxious to work on this setup along with you guys. Right now our winter has been very mild, but I am sure snow and riding may come to a halt some time before spring.

 

[jajpko]

Jim,

I have purchased the exact same config as you although it is not installed (parts still arriving) - Arrow headers, Vince can, AT and PCV. Jaxon has shared his (and yours I assume) maps. I live in Omaha Nebraska and am anxious to work on this setup along with you guys. Right now our winter has been very mild, but I am sure snow and riding may come to a halt some time before spring.

Thanks for the reply.. It sounds like you got a good setup!! Please keep us in the loop.
And if you have questions, ask away..

The more people that participate, the better the maps will become.

 

[stevepsd]

38-39 MPG? What kind of riding is this - highway, city? That is awful mileage, heck some cars get better than that. Of course, I think my mileage on my ST (47 ish - highway) is bad.

Regarding the PC maps. If you are running a AutoTune, what are the advantages of running different maps from the base maps that are provided from DynoJet? Especially since the AT is re-setting the fueling values based upon the exhaust gases its own O2 sensor is measuring.

 

[Tremor38]

38-39 MPG? What kind of riding is this - highway, city? That is awful mileage, heck some cars get better than that. Of course, I think my mileage on my ST (47 ish - highway) is bad.

Regarding the PC maps. If you are running a AutoTune, what are the advantages of running different maps from the base maps that are provided from DynoJet? Especially since the AT is re-setting the fueling values based upon the exhaust gases its own O2 sensor is measuring.

The maps are target AFRs for whatever purpose you might have, be it power, fuel economy, etc. The auto tune trims or adds fuel in order to achieve your target AFRs. If you don't accept the Auto Tune trim values to change the base map at the end of your ride, the auto trim has to do the same work all over again the next ride. With the latest trim values accepted and sent to the base map, the auto tune can then make further, more fine adjustments.

 

[stevepsd]

The maps are target AFRs for whatever purpose you might have, be it power, fuel economy, etc. The auto tune trims or adds fuel in order to achieve your target AFRs. If you don't accept the Auto Tune trim values to change the base map at the end of your ride, the auto trim has to do the same work all over again the next ride. With the latest trim values accepted and sent to the base map, the auto tune can then make further, more fine adjustments.

Understand that you have to save the Auto-Tune trims (if you wish).

Is there a range of values that the AT will only trim to?

For example, if you had a value of '11' in the 5250rpm/20% throttle cell this their a limited range that the AT could adjust that value (say from 9-13), or could AT adjust value to whatever it sees fit?

It appears that the PC only adjusts fuel values, since it does not appear that you can adjust any other values (timing, etc) as with the products I am using on my Triumph (TuneBoy & TuneECU).

Just trying to understand the PC & AT integration.

-steve

 

[Blue_eyes]

Understand that you have to save the Auto-Tune trims (if you wish).

Is there a range of values that the AT will only trim to?

For example, if you had a value of '11' in the 5250rpm/20% throttle cell this their a limited range that the AT could adjust that value (say from 9-13), or could AT adjust value to whatever it sees fit?

It appears that the PC only adjusts fuel values, since it does not appear that you can adjust any other values (timing, etc) as with the products I am using on my Triumph (TuneBoy & TuneECU).

Just trying to understand the PC & AT integration.

-steve

Steve, yes, you can set the up and down % that you allow At to correct.

See

For more info on the PowerCommander and AT features and related Q&A check out: http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=2813.0 that way we can keep this feedback from owners topic on-topic.

 

[roadlizard]

Met with Jaxon last week for the PCV install. Pre-ordered the PCV, Auto Tune, Akrapovic can and Arrow header. Jaxon was great to deal with and worked late the first day to get a jump on getting everything installed, this included longer hydraulic lines and bar risers. Plenty of time to check out the bike before the trip home. Have about 125 miles on the bike since the install. Have not checked mileage so no comment there. Power level is much better with more linear delivery. Noticed better response while accelerating from 3,000 RPM range as well.

 

[jajpko]

38-39 MPG? What kind of riding is this - highway, city? That is awful mileage, heck some cars get better than that. Of course, I think my mileage on my ST (47 ish - highway) is bad.

Regarding the PC maps. If you are running a AutoTune, what are the advantages of running different maps from the base maps that are provided from DynoJet? Especially since the AT is re-setting the fueling values based upon the exhaust gases its own O2 sensor is measuring.

I did not want to get into how the system works, only how people that had the system liked or disliked it.
To answer your quesion, MPG is normally low in the winter in Texas and when I'm testing a map for power, it is many hard roll on throttle runs. You can't have a power map and not lose fuel mileage in my opinion. If I run the same map and stay below 4k the mileage does increase.

The Auto tune will only try to adjust to the AFR that you have written into the individual cell.
You can also change the closed loop AFR by adding a value in the closed loop.
When you install a new map with Auto Tune, you will need to stop and accept the trim values many times, as the trims will change. Sometimes on a new map, I will use 30% for the first couple of trim accepts and then drop to 20%.

Hope this helps and if you want to discuss further please feel free to PM me.

 

[jajpko]

Met with Jaxon last week for the PCV install. Pre-ordered the PCV, Auto Tune, Akrapovic can and Arrow header. Jaxon was great to deal with and worked late the first day to get a jump on getting everything installed, this included longer hydraulic lines and bar risers. Plenty of time to check out the bike before the trip home. Have about 125 miles on the bike since the install. Have not checked mileage so no comment there. Power level is much better with more linear delivery. Noticed better response while accelerating from 3,000 RPM range as well.

Thanks for the feed back roadlizard.. ::008::

 

[X5]

Does the Diapson ECU fix negate the necessity of the PCV?

Cost, value, complexity, warranty, etc... If one does not wish to mess with the otherwise perfectly fueled machine but return what the engineers designed sans hassle the ECU only or at least First mod seems obvious.

Not to hijack this thread but I am sure current and potential PCV owners have these thoughts too?

 

[Tremor38]

Does the Diapson ECU fix negate the necessity of the PCV?

Cost, value, complexity, warranty, etc... If one does not wish to mess with the otherwise perfectly fueled machine but return what the engineers designed sans hassle the ECU only or at least First mod seems obvious.

Not to hijack this thread but I am sure current and potential PCV owners have these thoughts too?

Based upon what I've heard, the Diapason flash is mapped for use with the stock exhaust. People who are running the the Arrow headers have a big difference in airflow, so I'd say installing a PC/AT is very wise in that case...from not only a performance perspective, but combustion chamber heat concern. With just a slipon maybe not so important. We still don't have any data to support whether or not the power restriction in the lower gears exists on U.S. spec models either.

 

[Blue_eyes]

Does the Diapson ECU fix negate the necessity of the PCV?

Cost, value, complexity, warranty, etc... If one does not wish to mess with the otherwise perfectly fueled machine but return what the engineers designed sans hassle the ECU only or at least First mod seems obvious.

Not to hijack this thread but I am sure current and potential PCV owners have these thoughts too?

If warranty is a concern, then do not install a PowerCommander as this will void warranty. So does fitting Arrow headers, and many other mod's.
If power delivery / engine character is a concern, I would suggest starting with the ECU flash, as that will provide you with the engine as it was designed, but that Yamaha could not put onto the market due to emissions legislation.
If warranty is a concern, then only fit the Akra slip on, which is a Yamaha accessory and which does not void warranty.

All the rest is up to ones appetite for power, risk, tweaking, etc. ::021::

 

[X5]

Thanks Tremor and Blue Eyes. We have some protection here regarding aftermarket add on's and our warranty. http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

Its more the fight with Yamaha and dealerships that is a potential issue. Perhaps I am scarred by Harley Dealers endlessly pushing/arm-twisting their exclusive branded add-ons...

Adding about 20 HP in the first four gears with an ECU switch from a cost/convience perspective seems the best FIRST engine mod. No substitute for the PCV/AT for ultimate power however.

Tremor brought out a surprise that USA bikes may not have that limitation? Cannot imagine that California has less environmental issues than europe or australia which would allow uncastrated ECU here.

 

[Tremor38]

Thanks Tremor and Blue Eyes. We have some protection here regarding aftermarket add on's and our warranty. http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

Cannot imagine that California has less environmental issues than europe or australia which would allow uncastrated ECU here.

Yeah, I follow your reasoning and it makes perfect sense. It's just that stranger things have happened. One of the U.S. guys that posted in this tread sent his ECU to Italy. Don't know if he's got it back yet. There's is also a stateside crowd that are pretty experienced riders who swear they 'feel' no limitations, but that's neither hear nor there when you're talking about completely changing the lower and mid part of the power curve. To have near-perfect fueling and no power restraint via timing retard is one thing; however, when the throttle plates aren't opening all the way below a certain RPM, that changes the whole paradigm of what you're trying to 'feel,' IMO.

The definitive answer would be a dyno run in the lower gears, but nobody seems very anxious to get that done.

 

[X5]

Tremor,

One of the Australia guys here had his bike dyno'ed in 4th gear and the top end HP was in the 70's. 5th gear dyno on the same bike is pending from what I understand.

I'd dyno mine in a hearbeat if there was a reliable/safe provider locally. A local HD has one but not confident in their ability particularly on a non-HD ride.

 

[Tremor38]

Tremor,

One of the Australia guys here had his bike dyno'ed in 4th gear and the top end HP was in the 70's. 5th gear dyno on the same bike is pending from what I understand.

I'd dyno mine in a hearbeat if there was a reliable/safe provider locally. A local HD has one but not confident in their ability particularly on a non-HD ride.

The Aussies must be inheriting the Euro ECU then. Typically they have been spoiled with their relaxed emissions standards, so that comes as a surprise.

 

[Blue_eyes]

Thanks Tremor and Blue Eyes. We have some protection here regarding aftermarket add on's and our warranty. http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

Its more the fight with Yamaha and dealerships that is a potential issue. Perhaps I am scarred by Harley Dealers endlessly pushing/arm-twisting their exclusive branded add-ons...

Adding about 20 HP in the first four gears with an ECU switch from a cost/convience perspective seems the best FIRST engine mod. No substitute for the PCV/AT for ultimate power however.

Tremor brought out a surprise that USA bikes may not have that limitation? Cannot imagine that California has less environmental issues than europe or australia which would allow uncastrated ECU here.

In that article it is stated:

Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.

If Yamaha wants to take the effort, they will easily be able to prove that the bike does not meet (local) emission regulations/law (due to the ECU flash/ other intake/exhaust mods). They did not castrate the bike after designing and building it for nothing.
So in the case of a ECU flash, PC V and or catless header mods, Yamaha can void warranty. The only question is will they or the dealership ever go through the hassle... I don't think so, but that's why I said: If warranty is a concern.... For me it isn't.


Life is all about taking risk and rewards.... ::021::

 

[Desert Dave]

I'd dyno mine in a hearbeat if there was a reliable/safe provider locally. A local HD has one but not confident in their ability particularly on a non-HD ride.

I wouldn't worry much about their ability to run a dyno just to measure HP/Torque. Now if you were wanting them to TUNE your bike on a dyno that may be a different story depending on their experience. C'mon take one for the team and lets get an answer on this ;D I'll throw $20 into the pot and if a few others do, you get a free dyno run and we all get to know what's really going on.

 

[X5]

I wouldn't worry much about their ability to run a dyno just to measure HP/Torque. Now if you were wanting them to TUNE your bike on a dyno that may be a different story depending on their experience. C'mon take one for the team and lets get an answer on this ;D I'll throw $20 into the pot and if a few others do, you get a free dyno run and we all get to know what's really going on.

You talked me into it!

It's only 19.99.00 "for a pull" at the local hd dealer. Just donate your contributions toward a nice dinner with your spouse.

Next opening is in a week but they might get me in this Wednesday morning when they ask their foreman tomorrow.

Besides full tire pressure, sport mode, traction controll off and fifth gear, anything else in prep?