Heidenau tire problems?

[autoteach]

In AC's defense, I have had a set and they are definitely awful as a street tire. but like Tobasco says, as a 50/50 tire they are exactly what the doctor ordered. The problem is that I ended up riding a lot less gravel and dirt and they lasted too long and it got cold here. When my mornings start in the 40's. these tires are NOT GOOD. Reading all the reports of people dragging foot pegs with these tires I thought these might be the answer to all required riding. Instead, I am pushing both tires into a slide as I get on the ramp with about 50% lean angle (leaning off bike like humans should, not bolt up right like my luggage that is bolted to the bike). Even when warmed, we were running up pikes peak with no luggage and a passenger that weighs about 135. He is a racer, I am a.. racer? well, a hack of a racer, but nonetheless, we were getting the tires to do the bias ply oscillation and sliding in almost every corner with both of us leaning off with about 60% lean angle used. He started freaking out and hitting me on the shoulder. A quick discussion led us to set that point of traction as the maximum that we would try, so we did that the rest of the way up.

Now I understand 50/50 tires, and tires in general. I have worked on bikes as a mechanic for the last 8 years and have scrubbed in my share of various tires- almost threw a 1976 xl250 away on a power slide that was very unintended, and for all purpose should have been considered nearly impossible with the MASSIVE hp honda gave that hotrod ::025:: I guess, with all the hype I had read here I expected more. I can honestly say that another set of k60's will go on my bike. I can honestly say that will occur when, and only when, I go on long distance trips in excess of 7-8k miles or that require long stretches of off road (prudhoe? I hope). If you are not going to ride gravel or dirt on a regular occasion, or even remotely ride off road, I DO NOT BELIEVE that k60's are a tire that bring the performance that modern tires should to the table for the performance of the machine that you are putting them on. Now, if you have a KLR650, well, that may just work. PR3's for me this next time.

 

[avc8130]

And that's all fair and good AC. The issue I have with your post, (#32), is that it contains no personal, first hand experience from you. You're repeating other's words that you've spoken with, not just telling us how you felt about your personal experience with the tires. That's not helpful to someone looking for info and actual experience with the tires, good or bad impressions, etc.

Have you actually tried K60s yourself? I don't see a reference in this thread to you commenting about your experience with them.

I've seen this behavior before, on other topics, by a variety of people, and it's just not helpful. What you think is one thing, but it's trumped by actual experience, related directly by the person that has it.

Eric,

I've read just about every review, and I will try a set of K60s eventually. When life finally lets me go to Alaska, it will be on K60s unless something "better" comes along.

For right now, I'm a "street rider". I pretty much commute and rock it in the curves. From what I read, a horrible application for the K60s so I'll steer clear for now.

I have ridden K60s on my buddy's KTM 990 ADV. I rode them for a weekend. They are a pretty serious compromise on the pavement. One that I personally couldn't live with on a day to day basis. I rode them in pouring rain and that solid center strip and super hard compound that gives such great mileage also gives NO traction on wet pavement. All of that said, the tire was EXCELLENT on dirt and gravel, to even include moderate wet leaves/mud (considering).

It has its place, and one day I hope to NEED its place. For my "normal" life, there are better choices.

autoteach,

Thanks for that HONEST review. Sounds similar to what Clint told me over the phone.

Maybe we should spoon K60s on and ride to Alaska together? Then on the way home we can see who can leave bigger black stripes through the twisites until one of us high sides?

ac

 

[autoteach]

autoteach,

Thanks for that HONEST review. Sounds similar to what Clint told me over the phone.

Maybe we should spoon K60s on and ride to Alaska together? Then on the way home we can see who can leave bigger black stripes through the twisites until one of us high sides?

ac

No problem! Honestly, the worst of it was probably the grooved pavement and the steady high speed weaving. That, and they weigh SO MUCH. I swear I must have given up 15hp. Alaska sounds good to me, but I do try to save all of my "siding" for the track and my mini supermoto setup.

 

[snakebitten]

I've hardly seen any single make\model of a tire that has as many posts and as much info as the K60.
So I don't get the need for more info so people can make an informed decision.
Every strength and weakness has been documented many times over.

 

[snakebitten]

Oh, and there have been countless 1000's of miles traveled all over the world on them. I dare say in every weather condition and on all kinds of ADV bikes.
It's not a dangerous tire. If it were, there would surely be stories accounting for it failing.

 

[snakebitten]

And finally, lol, I had 1 front that needed air weekly. And 1 front that didn't. Was a bit irritating when I was in a hurry.

 

[EricV]

Gents, you do realize that the tire you're saying is not acceptable for street riding is exactly what I ran in the Iron Butt Rally for close to 10k miles of street riding in 11 days? 8) I chose it after wearing out a set of PR3s (which I will NEVER, EVER put on my bike again. Over priced and under performing.) I admire those that get good mileage from PR3s, but oddly, I only got 6800 from the rear and it went away very, very fast at the end. Oddly, because I usually get better than average tire life from any tire. I rode the K60s for the IBR because they do last on pavement. Because they do grip on pavement. AutoTeach - to be fair, you should edit to mention that when you rode Pikes Peak, it was during the competition closures, not during the public time periods. I've been there, ridden that, and know the speed limits there. 50% lean angle puts you way over the posted limits there. And when it's public, there is usually far too much tourist traffic to ride at any speed we'd prefer to ride at.

AC - You're a big boy. You get to ride as you choose to ride, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, at all. But to be honest, you're not riding at public road pace if the K60 is a problem. And you need to step down and stop posting in K60 threads until you personally wear a set out. Leave it to the people that have actually used them, even if your personal opinion is different.

AutoTeach - Is it the best tire at 40º on cold pavement. Heck no. But come on, no tire is going to grip that well at that temp and you should know better than to do dumb stuff at that temp. : It's not your first rodeo.

Tire threads will always be tire threads. Just like oil threads. Lots of opinions, lots of different personal preferences.

 

[autoteach]

Come on. Really? When I rode it there were people all over the mountain in cars, minivans, etc. Did I exceed the speeds posted? Yes, happily. Like almost everyone of us in twisty roads. I stayed in my lane, and the speeds in the tight corners weren't that high. That is where the tire gave up and 50% of lean angle isn't too much to ask. As for it not being my first rodeo, you are right. I have hit the on ramp plenty of times with other tires, and never did I have a two wheel slide at the lack of lean angle that I can do it with the k60. I have two wheel slide on diesel, and that is to be expected. I will say, that at about 60 degrees F it all starts to come around. Those are the victories that we can all take joy in.

As for the abismal 6800 miles that you get from the PR3....and? What tire should I run? I would love to have high mileage, high grip, rain traction, and something that warms up in the cold enough to grip something more than the rim it is attached to.

 

[EricV]

: Riiight. It's double yellow for nearly the entire length. Certainly all the fun stretches. If you were riding a pace two up that caused traction issues with tourists all over the place, you probably should examine your riding style a tad.

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but seriously, listen to your self. Wake the heck up. Don't go riding like an idiot in the cold, the physics are not in your favor, regardless of what tire you choose to run. I'm willing to bet you have the skills, but use some common sense. You're not honestly telling me you still ride for the adrenaline rush?

 

[avc8130]

Gents, you do realize that the tire you're saying is not acceptable for street riding is exactly what I ran in the Iron Butt Rally for close to 10k miles of street riding in 11 days? 8) I chose it after wearing out a set of PR3s (which I will NEVER, EVER put on my bike again. Over priced and under performing.) I admire those that get good mileage from PR3s, but oddly, I only got 6800 from the rear and it went away very, very fast at the end. Oddly, because I usually get better than average tire life from any tire. I rode the K60s for the IBR because they do last on pavement. Because they do grip on pavement. AutoTeach - to be fair, you should edit to mention that when you rode Pikes Peak, it was during the competition closures, not during the public time periods. I've been there, ridden that, and know the speed limits there. 50% lean angle puts you way over the posted limits there. And when it's public, there is usually far too much tourist traffic to ride at any speed we'd prefer to ride at.

AC - You're a big boy. You get to ride as you choose to ride, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, at all. But to be honest, you're not riding at public road pace if the K60 is a problem. And you need to step down and stop posting in K60 threads until you personally wear a set out. Leave it to the people that have actually used them, even if your personal opinion is different.

AutoTeach - Is it the best tire at 40º on cold pavement. Heck no. But come on, no tire is going to grip that well at that temp and you should know better than to do dumb stuff at that temp. : It's not your first rodeo.

Tire threads will always be tire threads. Just like oil threads. Lots of opinions, lots of different personal preferences.

Are you really going to comment about "public road pace"?

How do we define that? I've been on plenty of roads with 45mph speed limits and 5 mph posted yellow turn signs. Is it really expected that someone on a motorcycle reduce speed to 5mph to be at public road pace?

I've ridden the tire. It has its purpose. It is probably absolutely perfect for someone like yourself who wants the mileage.

When I ride my bike, I don't want my tires to be a limiting factor and I'm sure you don't either.

Riding 10k miles in 11 days (I assume you already have a monument or a trophy for that so I won't ask which you'd like) means <10k mile life would be a limiting factor to you.

Poor rain/cold or general pavement performance is a limiting factor for me.

I've owned PR3s. I've never gotten more than 6k miles out of them either. I've also never ridden a motorcycle tire that works better in the rain.

I've never gotten more than 6k ENJOYABLE miles from ANY motorcycle tire.

This is a Yamaha Tenere forum. I expect the forum to be filled with Tenere fanbois.

Isn't there a K60 forum you could go hang out at?

ac

 

[EricV]

No trophies here AC. I'm nothing special, just like to ride. And actually, I planned on a tire swap about half way thru, not knowing how many miles I'd be riding total. The first tire came off at 5500 miles, (it's waiting to go back on), and I ran the second well after that event to run it out around 12k when it hit the wear bars.

Public road pace? Sure, not passing on double yellows. Not going more than +10 of the speed limit. Not taking a corner at over double the posted yellow sign. There are other people out there on those roads. Not all of them doing so well at keeping in their lane. Never mind all the other hazards. Those are admittedly fairly tame limits that I'm suggesting. The road is not a race track where you know the conditions ahead of time.

That's the thing, you're absolutely right, I don't want my tires to be a limiting factor, which is why I chose the K60s. No, I don't suggest that should be everyone's choice. Far from it. But I think it's pretty silly to argue that you need more traction than the K60s offer on a public road. The "poor rain/cold or paved road performance" is perceived by you and others. I'm simply saying that yes, it's not going to be the absolute best tire in those conditions, but it's hardly bad in those conditions. Examine how smart it is to attempt to push the envelope in those conditions, regardless of your choice of tire?

The PR3 is a great rain tire. At the expense of tread life. Soooo, really big boy, how much riding do you really do in the rain? ::025::

 

[autoteach]

When the tire was chattering across the pavement, it was plenty warm. Also, I have never dragged a foot peg, and my tires almost always have .25-.5" or chicken strips. So, yes, I will argue that one needs a more dedicated tire with better traction and modern radial construction. For the days that I want to tootle along at a miserly pace, I ride a slower bike with crappy handling and tires that suck. Like my cb750f, which is awesome, because it can light up tires in the rain at 45 mph. good old metzlers from the early 80's. Similar in its crappy performance was the dunlop 207 that came on my Superhawk. I could light that tire up through intersections. in defense of all these crappy tires, I think we should put all the bikes on the road back on these 80's and 90's tires, I mean, its not like they were that bad.

 

[sportsguy]

My front needed air today after a month of sitting. Rear is fine, as usual.

It occurred to me that by spooning on my upcoming TKC 80's, i'll have had more tires on this bike than on any other bike I've ever owned. In fact, its starting to look like I trade bikes before they need a second set of tires.

I need to ride more...

 

[avc8130]

No trophies here AC. I'm nothing special, just like to ride. And actually, I planned on a tire swap about half way thru, not knowing how many miles I'd be riding total. The first tire came off at 5500 miles, (it's waiting to go back on), and I ran the second well after that event to run it out around 12k when it hit the wear bars.

Public road pace? Sure, not passing on double yellows. Not going more than +10 of the speed limit. Not taking a corner at over double the posted yellow sign. There are other people out there on those roads. Not all of them doing so well at keeping in their lane. Never mind all the other hazards. Those are admittedly fairly tame limits that I'm suggesting. The road is not a race track where you know the conditions ahead of time.

That's the thing, you're absolutely right, I don't want my tires to be a limiting factor, which is why I chose the K60s. No, I don't suggest that should be everyone's choice. Far from it. But I think it's pretty silly to argue that you need more traction than the K60s offer on a public road. The "poor rain/cold or paved road performance" is perceived by you and others. I'm simply saying that yes, it's not going to be the absolute best tire in those conditions, but it's hardly bad in those conditions. Examine how smart it is to attempt to push the envelope in those conditions, regardless of your choice of tire?

The PR3 is a great rain tire. At the expense of tread life. Soooo, really big boy, how much riding do you really do in the rain? ::025::

That is quite an accusation to make. Passing on the double yellow, excessive speeding, etc. Have we ridden together?

The thing is, I don't see it as "pushing the limit in those conditions". As you pointed out, things happen. There are others on the roads, there are hazards we aren't aware of. Realistically speaking, you can only slow down in the rain so much before YOU become a hazard as others have 4 tires with real siping and tread designs as well as doors, roofs and windows. I'm not worried about "pushing it". I am comfortable with what I am doing. I'm more worried about when something goes wrong. Bambi jumps out. Soccer mom swerves into my lane.

You can't control those. They occur in perfect conditions and they occur in the rain. Sure, you can "slow down" in the rain. Maybe do 35 in a 50. That would probably be considered "safe". But when soccer mom yelling at her 2 kids in the back seat jerks the wheel left and winds up in your lane, you will need to make an evasive maneuver. Brakes+steering. That combo works with surprising aplomb on a tire like the PR3. I don't get the same FEELING from the K60.

That's a good darn question "how much riding do I do in the rain?".

"No more than necessary."

BUT

I live in NJ. I am fortunate that my work generally closes if there is snow. I drive ~7k miles annually in a car (with a 50 mile commute LOL). I would be SHOCKED if more than 5% of them were in the snow. Do I still put snow tires on my car? HECK YES! Why would I want to compromise my SAFETY over a few bucks? I can buy more tires.

I ride in the rain when I get caught. In the summer, that is pretty often as if it is not raining in the morning I take the bike regardless of the afternoon forecast.

To each their own. You are a K60 fanboi. I'm still searching. I haven't put the same tire on my Tenere twice. I'm on my 5th set, you'd still be on your 2nd.

ac

 

[EricV]

Calm down AC. I did not accuse you or anyone else. Though you and AutoTeach sure make it hard for me to believe you're riding in a safe and sane manner with the comments you make.

You still don't have the experience to talk about K60s. You're correct about slowing down in the rain can cause you to become a hazard. What you seem to have missed is that I'm not slowing down. Not in the rain, not on dry. Nothing about the K60s ability to grip under any conditions causes me to need to slow down. Not because I'm all that, because it's a decent tire and performs well. What I am saying is that I'm not trying to whack the throttle in a corner at 40º either, nor would I with any tire.

Plain old ordinary reality. I do ride more than you. I do go thru more tires than you. I've tried lots of tires on other bikes. Only a few on this bike, because I keep coming back to the K60 as the only one that can provide decent tread life for my riding. I don't care to spend money on tires that I don't need to spend. Spending money on tires that don't last longer than 10k in the rear doesn't work for me, unless I can score them at reduced costs.

I hear you about worrying about the other road users. That's why we pay attention to other and give ourselves spacing and planed exits away from other road users. There are tons of ways for each individual rider to choose how to deal with things before it becomes a problem. You say we can't control those, and you're right. But we can minimize those to a large degree by how we ride. The awareness of our surroundings and what threats are present allow us to be prepared for what can happen and be prepared to avoid it or deal with it the best we can.

Don't ride next to Suzy Soccer mom when she's on the phone, or stay in anyone's blind spot, for example. Don't over ride your sight lines in deer country, especially at high threat times.

Ask yourself this, are you riding at a level that leaves enough on the table when the unknown occurs? That's not a tire question.

I ride in the rain when I get caught in it too. But I am crossing states in the rain, sometimes western ones, sometimes eastern ones. In many cases I'm in a competitive event where I have no control over when I will be riding, and only a little control over where I go. Last year I started out in the rain on brand new K60s and rode from PA into WV, turned around and went back thru PA and OH before I got out of the rain. And that was just one day. I experienced levels of rain from wet pavement to torrential downpours with heavy cross winds. Much of it on the slab, but a fair amount on back roads of the two lane type. All with varying degrees of threats from critters and other road users. I didn't think about my tires once. Just rode. Never had any issues. And fwiw, I grew up in OR and spent 45 odd years living there. I have ridden in a lot of rain over the years. No one has the corner on crappy weather.

You don't feel confident with K60s. But you lack enough experience with K60s to make that claim. So stop already. Stay out of the K60 threads until you've actually tried them on your own bike for as long as they last you. Tell us all about the tires you have tried and what you liked or didn't like about them when those questions are presented.

Yes, I'm a fan of K60s. I've tried PR3 Trails and Anakee 3 (rear only), as well as the oem Tourance EXPs and have a Kenda Big Block on the rear now. Of those, the PR3s are the best in the rain. But the margin of difference between the PR3 and the worst of the tires I've tried in the rain, (EXPs), is not huge. The EXPs are the only tires that did actually make me slow down from my normal pace, and even then that was only in areas with more tar in the asphalt than average.

And no AC, I'd only be on my 2nd set if I rode a little as you do. You're on your 5th set because you pull the tires off before you reach the wear bars and because of your riding style. Most of tire wear is about the right wrist. You're not going any faster or slower than I am. You are using more wrist action in your riding than I am.

@AutoTeach - Ok, question: How is it that you experienced "chattering" across the pavement in warm conditions? I've not experienced that w/o a lot of throttle. Even in a corner, you'd have to be on throttle pretty good to get that, and with the TCS off or perhaps in setting 2 to get a little. I can see that on throttle in a corner, you will break the K60 loose faster than a more road oriented tire, but I'm not seeing where spinning the tire is getting you down the road any better.

These conversations are always interesting. The negative guys always seem to think the positive guys are riding slower. Rarely is that the case. Riders that get more miles out of their tires are not necessarily slower, but they are necessarily smoother.

 

[avc8130]

Ha!

You know so much about me.

Ok, I'm out.

You win.

I'm sure you will still post directed at me after this one.

ac

 

[Koinz]

::017:: ;D

 

[snakebitten]

My front needed air today after a month of sitting. Rear is fine, as usual.

It occurred to me that by spooning on my upcoming TKC 80's, i'll have had more tires on this bike than on any other bike I've ever owned. In fact, its starting to look like I trade bikes before they need a second set of tires.

I need to ride more...

LOL. Yea, other than the "controversial" K60's, this bike loves to consume rubber. I don't even let it bother me. I'm having a ball on this thing even during a commute.

Kinda funny really. These traction debates. I'm usually shod with some kind of knobby. (like you are fixing to be) I just ride the thing like its a 1200cc dirt bike with a license plate. Kind of like a heavier KTM SE with some touring luxuries. (TC, ABS, Far better seat) If you enjoy that kind of viewpoint, it changes your expectations. In fact, I marvel at how well this thing gobbles tarmac on Knobbies! (much less, a more street oriented K60)

Bet those TKC's are sweet! A bit expensive for a rear that is gonna get toasted. But I hear they have great road manners. And folks swear by the front TKC.

Have fun dude. On that Big Huge Dirt Bike! It's the perfect Dirt-Tourer.

 

[autoteach]

@AutoTeach - Ok, question: How is it that you experienced "chattering" across the pavement in warm conditions? I've not experienced that w/o a lot of throttle. Even in a corner, you'd have to be on throttle pretty good to get that, and with the TCS off or perhaps in setting 2 to get a little. I can see that on throttle in a corner, you will break the K60 loose faster than a more road oriented tire, but I'm not seeing where spinning the tire is getting you down the road any better.

I am definitely not talking about throttle caused tire slip, which I have caused and am not complaining about. I am talking about static throttle maintaining speed and having both front and rear tire do slip and grip. I think I was even able to look down and see foot peg clearance while doing this because a few turns were constant long radius corners.

A co-worker of mine and I talked about all this today, and he said that he is the ideal customer for the K60. He owns a tired crappy KLR650, and drives down a highway that has about 5 turns between his house and work, over 30 miles apart. Then we laughed about not needing any more traction than the k60 on the street. Then we laughed at the brand new Metzler Lazertec's that we just mounted on a customer's bike (can't tell those old BMW guys much). It was enjoyable. But, like I said, my bike will see another set... but not until I need the off road capabilities. Until then, it's street tires for me, and as company policy would have it, I will be mounting a different tire than the last one as we want first hand experience to be able to share directly with out customers.

 

[CDMartin884]

My biggest problem is killing them, can't seem to put enough miles on them lately to need a new one ::025::