Have you had the hard start problem?

[GreggB]

Sure they can. And will. Yamaha has a long history of not admitting to issues that are extremely well documented and that they have publicly dealt with, at least at the customer service level. I had a conversation in '07 about my Gen I FJR, commenting on the know valve train issue, (seals/guides wearing prematurely), only to have the customer service person on the phone say "we don't know of any valve train issues", despite Yamaha doing a wonderful job of stepping up and repairing many, many of these under warranty for years prior to that phone call. I think it's just their standard policy to never admit knowledge of product shortcomings or defects when talking to customers. It may differ from region to region, but I wouldn't be surprised if 50 people called the same number to complain, and all of them got the same "we've never heard of that problem before".

Good Point but with owner forums like this you have a opportunity to document complaints and replays for others to use and quote. IN SHORT COMPLAIN TO YAMAHA AND POST THERE REPLY.

 

[CraigM]

My bike and I have also just got back from the dealer, but they had to collect the bike though.....

I had also left it garaged for 2 and a half months with Wyns's fuel treatment in a full tank. I knew when I got back that the battery would be low so I put it on the Optimate charger for a good few hours. I must also add that it was about 3 degrees C and very damp at the time. When I tried starting the engine turned over but clearly with difficulty, I tried a couple more times and the battery gave up. I put it back on charge and tried again the next morning but still no joy, the battery eventually gave up again. While I could probably have made attempts at removing plugs etc I'm not very experienced at it, so thought that as its still under warranty, to leave it to the dealer to do.

The dealer carried out the 12000mile service at the same time but in all it apparently took them 7.5 hours to get it all done. Apparently the combustion chambers had flooded, and although I had it explained to me I wouldn't want to try to repeat all of what had to be done but I gather it was a case of removing everything to literally wipe the chambers dry. I understand this is made much more complicated with everything being electronic and that the 'old fashioned' way of letting more air in and holding the carbs open to dry things out is clearly no longer a option.

I'm told that any attempt at starting with a battery in anything but good condition is going to cause this problem. Its apparently also particularly troublesome for the S10 because of the amount of compression and a smaller than "normal" starter motor. I can only assume the smaller than normal starter motor was to help save weight???

To cut a long story short... after a very large bill we are back in action. I should also add that in the nearly 2 years I've owned the S10 I have not had any other starting problems before. But then I'd never left it standing for 2 and a half months before.... ::010::

 

[EricV]

CraigM - Sorry to hear you have had the hard start problem, and that you incurred an unpleasant bill from the dealer. The flooded condition does seem to be a common thread with the hard start, though conditions may vary in what causes that condition.

I have an Optimate III maintenance charger. Considering the charger, I do know that a couple of hours on mine won't do much for a weak battery. It would top off a fairly good one, but not bring a weak one back up to near full charge w/o an overnight period of charging. Do you use the Optimate on another bike? I commonly leave the bike plugged in, even though I ride quite a bit. It's design prevents over charging and damage, so there is no harm in doing so.

Did you try half or full throttle after the overnight charge? Many have found that successful, as long as the battery is well charged.

You may also want to read in this thread about the removal of the fuel injection fuse as a method of allowing cranking w/o fuel to help dry things out when flooded. Something that may come in handy if you experience this again. Hopefully you will not.

 

[Rasher]

Were still at 0ver 50% of people never having the problem and around 90% have either had no problems or got it going with WOT (and the odd fuse removal)

It seems to be after either :-

* A long lay-off
* A very brief run where the motor never warmed up properly

It certainly ends up flooded in both instances, maybe a slightly low battery just does not crank it fast enough to start right off and then it floods after a couple of revolutions with fuel being thrown in "on choke".

I am not too bothered as it seems if you keep the battery well charged and don't run the engine for just a few seconds then you are far less likely to experience the issue, and if you do WOT will get you going most of the time.

It also seems it is unlikely to leave you stranded anywhere other than your own home, and I bet in all cases a few hours charging +WOT / Fuse pull will get it going again.

It's not like were discussing exploding final drives, or dropped valves here ::008::

 

[GrahamD]

@CraigM.

Sorry to here about all that. The one silver lining about that is that particular dealer can't say they have never heard about that.

You should try, and I am not saying this to be nasty, sending YAMAHA USA a copy of the bill, So they know what it cost you, and a please reimburse letter.

It probably will do nothing but get their attention.

Or just call SAUL.

Breaking Bad: Better Caul Saul (Fatty Fat Fat)

 

[RidgeRunner]

Nearly 50% of respondents experiencing this problem at least once. Many riders don't do forums at all so the actual number may be even higher. Yamaha is aware of this problem in my opinion and they either can't pinpoint the solution or it is an exspensive one. Some of you claim that this is a minor problem. Sorry, but to me a bike that won't start, drains batteries, strains starters, and it couldn't be good for the engine either. These posts go back to 2010? Sorry, this is a deal breaker for me.

 

[autoteach]

Funny, I read it as though nearly 60 percent of people hadn't have the problem, and a lot of people aren't on forums, so that number could be higher. The solution is really simple to what is many times a self inflicted problem, so I the deal is not broken... ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002::

 

[Dallara]

Nearly 50% of respondents experiencing this problem at least once. Many riders don't do forums at all so the actual number may be even higher. Yamaha is aware of this problem in my opinion and they either can't pinpoint the solution or it is an exspensive one. Some of you claim that this is a minor problem. Sorry, but to me a bike that won't start, drains batteries, strains starters, and it couldn't be good for the engine either. These posts go back to 2010? Sorry, this is a deal breaker for me.

Or maybe a whole lot fewer, too... No way to really know how many have had the problem out in the wild. If you've hung around forums much then you know that "problems" tend to get over-reported a rather inordinate amount, and there are always lots of "lurkers" who never post unless they actually have a problem of some kind, so there are actually always a much larger number out there that are totally trouble-free.

But hey, if it's a "deal breaker" for you then I can certainly understand. For me the Super Tenere is the only big adventure bike I would actually trust implicitly to take me around the world entirely trouble-free. No way I could trust a Beemer G/S and its myriad of potential failures, and the Triumph Explorer? Well, talk about a serious starting problem!!! Those, and some of their brethren, are having "immobilizer" failures that are leaving riders truly stranded, with *NO* way to get the bike started except for a trip to the dealers for new electronic parts.

And last but not least... If you look back carefully I don't think you will find any "hard starting problems" that go back to 2010. I don't think there was actually a reported one until 2012, though it may have been very late in 2011. Another thing to note carefully is that to the best of my knowledge even those riders who have reported a "hard starting problem" still *LOVE* their Super Tenere's and wouldn't think of selling them.

Just a thought...

Dallara




~

 

[RidgeRunner]

Yeah Dallara,
I been around awhile. Can't hardly remember all the different bikes I've owned. Never had an adventure tourer. Love the Japenese bikes because of their reliability. Just bought my first non-Japenese bike ever last year. Triumph Bonneville T100. Very pleasantly surprised with it. Actually, I love it. Especially when my Harley friends can't keep up with me...which is...all the time. Great fun bike. Had a Valkyrie for awhile...None of my friends could keep up with me on that either...lol. Just itching for an adventure bike cause I've never had one I reckon. I do like off roading and I do take long trips. Road a Kawasaki 1700 Classic from Alabama to New Mexico and back to celebrate my 50th birthday. Just thinking how much more fun it might have been if I could've took the Kawi out in the desert instead of staying firmly planted on the asplalt. The Kawi was a big heavy bike. So was the Valkyrie. The Bonnie feels light as a feather. I do take the Bonnie on some pretty rough dirt mountain roads but nowhere you couldn't just as easily take a truck. And the Bonnie is not comfortable for more than 200 mile days. Anyway...just shopping. Thanks for the input. These forums usually decide my rides.

 

[EricV]

@Ridgerunner - Make no mistake, the Super Ten is a big heavy bike too. Easily 600 lbs with any kind of luggage on it. It wears it well, and it is 185 lbs lighter than the Kawi 1700 Classic, specs to specs. But you find out quick off pavement that if you get into the rougher stuff, your skill level needs to be up there to handle it and it's no fun to pick up. It's very capable, but it's still a big bike.

Alabama? Just rode over to Stagecoach RTE at the end of last year. Wife and I came out from UT in 4 days. Took a bit longer since she doesn't like to ride at night any more. Wandered back via FL with a stop in NOLA for new years fun. The Super Ten just ate it up.

I've had the hard starting issue once. I knew what to do and it fired up just fine with half to 3/4 throttle. I had thought I used WOT, but realized later I usually don't twist it all the way for that scenario. In 162k miles on the previous FJR, I probably had the hard start problem half a dozen times, always at home in the garage. I lived on a hill then and just bump started it most of the time, since that was the direction I was headed anyway. Never did change the battery on that bike, so that may have been a contributing factor. The 9 year old battery fired the bike right up the day I sold it.

 

[snakebitten]

RidgeRunner,

Don't let this be a "dealbreaker". Find some other reason for the Tenere not to be the bike for you. Because this issue ain't an issue.

I even had 1 hard start episode. (I consider it to be a snafu on my part because I was well educated on the subject) But to deny myself all the amazing memories that I, and the wife, have already created on this thing, and the ones we intend to yet, simply because I struggled with it for a moment one day, would be a terrible mistake.

There are only 3 bikes in the world that can deliver the mission that we are enjoying in our 50's together. World wide too. This Tenere is indisputably the best of those 3. Especially when reliability is on the table! A rare hard start doesn't even rank as a concern.

 

[jc450]

Just curious as I'm coming off 2strokes and high performance DS 4 strokes and have always had an episode or two or more (think WR) on those bikes with no starts almost always fixed with a bump start. Any reasons other than 600 lbs our bikes cannot be bumped?

Regards, JC

 

[Dirt_Dad]

A rare hard start doesn't even rank as a concern.

::026:: It's something to be aware of, but it would not keep me from jumping on the bike tomorrow and taking a long worry free ride away from home. In the extraordinarily unlikely event that it does happen, I know I'll get it going again and it will run perfectly the rest of the trip. In the world of bike issues, that's barely worth a mention.

 

[Rasher]

Buy a battery charger or ride it more often ::008::

Since 2010 I do not think anyone has reported coming home on a break down truck, check out BMW / Ducati forums if you really want to be scared out of buying a bike :exclaim:

Forum tend to ver-report, as stated how many lurkers only post with an issue, or see "have you had the hard start problem" and think "no" instead of voting no I bet everyone who has had this once, regardless of underlying cause has voted, and eben then over 50% have never had it, and for most it started after a while.

My car often takes a few turns to start (especially ib the cold) some may describe that as hard starting, some of the reported "hard starts" may actually just be a slightly longer than the usual nano-second turnover. Seeing as it has not left anyone stranded whilst out and about, and I suspect just the voters have clocked a couple of hundred thousand miles between them without being let down somewhere.

Plus with the knowledge gained here you know not to run one for a few seconds, or to leave it for months without a battery top up, I really do not expect mine to do it again, and I know how to get it going quickly if it does.

::021::

 

[RidgeRunner]

Yeah, Ya'll are right. I remember all the "non issues" on the Kawi Vulcan forums now that I think about it. 16,000 trouble free miles on mine and everyone else I knew that had them had no problems either. Just logged 100 miles on the Bonnie. Big smiles. Don't know if I can give her up just yet. I love motorcycles....

 

[RidgeRunner]

@Ridgerunner - Make no mistake, the Super Ten is a big heavy bike too. Easily 600 lbs with any kind of luggage on it. It wears it well, and it is 185 lbs lighter than the Kawi 1700 Classic, specs to specs. But you find out quick off pavement that if you get into the rougher stuff, your skill level needs to be up there to handle it and it's no fun to pick up. It's very capable, but it's still a big bike.

Alabama? Just rode over to Stagecoach RTE at the end of last year. Wife and I came out from UT in 4 days. Took a bit longer since she doesn't like to ride at night any more. Wandered back via FL with a stop in NOLA for new years fun. The Super Ten just ate it up.

I've had the hard starting issue once. I knew what to do and it fired up just fine with half to 3/4 throttle. I had thought I used WOT, but realized later I usually don't twist it all the way for that scenario. In 162k miles on the previous FJR, I probably had the hard start problem half a dozen times, always at home in the garage. I lived on a hill then and just bump started it most of the time, since that was the direction I was headed anyway. Never did change the battery on that bike, so that may have been a contributing factor. The 9 year old battery fired the bike right up the day I sold it.

Yeah Eric, I don't believe my offroad expextations are unrealistic, thanks to folks like you and the internet and all. Seen the Tenere bottom out hard on rocks on YouTube this morning. I know she'll be a handful offroad. Raised on dirtbikes. Recently had a DR650. I am concerned about not being able to turn off the ABS though. Locking the rear wheel in dirt makes for good tight turns...even on my little Bonnie.

 

[creggur]

Yeah, Ya'll are right. I remember all the "non issues" on the Kawi Vulcan forums now that I think about it. 16,000 trouble free miles on mine and everyone else I knew that had them had no problems either. Just logged 100 miles on the Bonnie. Big smiles. Don't know if I can give her up just yet. I love motorcycles....

I've had the "hard start" issue twice...I was stranded all of 45 seconds each time (once was in my garage) and I'm still not convinced it wasn't something I did.

In short, it's a non-issue that's being unduly inflated and propagated by the interwebz (mostly right here, actually).

Ride More, Worry Less. And if that's on your Bonnie - that's okay too - as long you're enjoying yourself...that's all that really matters.

 

[EricV]

Yeah Eric, I don't believe my offroad expextations are unrealistic, thanks to folks like you and the internet and all. Seen the Tenere bottom out hard on rocks on YouTube this morning. I know she'll be a handful offroad. Raised on dirtbikes. Recently had a DR650. I am concerned about not being able to turn off the ABS though. Locking the rear wheel in dirt makes for good tight turns...even on my little Bonnie.

You can easily, (and cheaply), install an ABS off switch. It does require a key cycle to turn it back on though. That said, most people find that the ABS is very, very good off road. This generation of ABS is much, much better than anything before it. I get the lock the rear wheel for a tighter turn off road, but you also need to remember just how big and heavy this bike is. That much momentum doesn't always react the same way a 350 lb bike does.

My suspicion is that if you're riding at the level that requires a locked wheel to make the turn, you're probably over riding the trail for this big a bike. Does that make sense?

 

[GrahamD]

Yeah Eric, I don't believe my offroad expextations are unrealistic, thanks to folks like you and the internet and all. Seen the Tenere bottom out hard on rocks on YouTube this morning. I know she'll be a handful offroad. Raised on dirtbikes. Recently had a DR650. I am concerned about not being able to turn off the ABS though. Locking the rear wheel in dirt makes for good tight turns...even on my little Bonnie.

It can do prety well if you learn how to ride it. The compromises YAMAHA made though left it a bit "soft" for getting too serious. That can all be changed.

It was never meant to be a stiff high dirt bike. Some compromises were made to make it easier to get on without a ladder and hold up without wearing one of these...

And in the end it is a 1200cc bike that requires modified techniques. Like power steering instead of skid steering frinstance.

The engine though can get you some skid if you want.

 

[Combo]

It can do prety well if you learn how to ride it. The compromises YAMAHA made though left it a bit "soft" for getting too serious. That can all be changed.

It was never meant to be a stiff high dirt bike. Some compromises were made to make it easier to get on without a ladder and hold up without wearing one of these...

And in the end it is a 1200cc bike that requires modified techniques. Like power steering instead of skid steering frinstance.

The engine though can get you some skid if you want.

I have to tell you GrahamD I have had days even on my YZ250 I could have used one of those. )