Flash or Not???

[EricV]

I don't think the subject of this thread is going to get most of the non-flash people to look at it. If you're not interested in the Flash, or poking about to see what's up now, there is no real interest in reading about it.

No flash for me. I don't have 'issues' with the stock configuration either. I have left it in S mode since about 600 miles. I don't use large throttle movements very often.

 

[scott123007]

It's simple really...There are those that ride motorcycles for sport, and those that don't. The sport riding group are always looking for the best performance out of their bikes and tend to do things to achieve that regardless of what kind of bike it is. Others may want the flash for other reasons, but those that could care less about the flash do not ride for sport.
And before this turns into a "hey, I ride for sport and don't have a flash" ask yourself this: When you are out riding whether off road or on, do you at some point try to test your limits in cornering or braking? Or, if you are riding with your buddies, do you care if you can't keep up?

 

[XtreemLee]

I don't use large throttle movements very often.

Thats a great point, I'm not slow or riding conservatively. When I get out on the open road I ride and push. I like to think I'm smooth fast, as opposed to on/off fast.

 

[Paul466]

Im considering a flash but would love to get perspective from diehard dirt riders. Does the flash give too much wheel spin off road? Is there different maps for offroad riding? Thx for any input!

 

[WRW9751]

Like I stated earlier, the bike is good either way. It's just better now. I would have gotten along just fine without the flash, but really glad that I don't have too

I concur! The Flash has made mine a much nicer motorcycle to ride.
There were some lean areas that are gone now (surging), some of the buzzyness is gone from the bars.
Off throttle is WAY better! But the best IMO is the engine braking one to one with the throttle, Big!
I could have gotten along without the flash and did, but having experienced both on the same bike lets you know that the EPA and the Attorney's SUX!

 

[Sckill]

I went with avc's flash and will never go back to stock. In all of these flash threads, there are only two camps: the unsure if they should flash, and the flashed and will never go back. The biggest benefits I got out of it were smooth, predictable throttle response in both S and T modes and reduced engine braking. Traffic is a fact of life where I live and the stock jerky throttle maps and excessive engine braking were terrible for slow speeds.

For the impact on the S10, AVC's flash was a real bargain at $125 and is still well worth it even at the new price. The only change is the map translating % wrist turn to % throttle opening at the engine. No changes to the fueling and no real impact to reliability of the bike. For me, it wasn't about turning the S10 into a sport bike, but about having full control of the bike's capabilities. I don't see how anyone can say that's an unnecessary thing.

 

[Dallara]

~


Isn't it interesting how the riders who say they don't need a re-flash, or that it does not improve the motorcycle, are always the ones who don't have a re-flash, have never ridden a Super Tenere with a re-flash, and pretty much have no clue as to how it works or what it does? ::025::

Funny, too... How once there were plenty of people in the world who thought the world was flat, and were perfectly happy with that malformed assumption. Oh, well...


Dallara





~

 

[avc8130]

~


Isn't it interesting how the riders who say they don't need a re-flash, or that it does not improve the motorcycle, are always the ones who don't have a re-flash, have never ridden a Super Tenere with a re-flash, and pretty much have no clue as to how it works or what it does? ::025::

Funny, too... How once there were plenty of people in the world who thought the world was flat, and were perfectly happy with that malformed assumption. Oh, well...


Dallara





~

It's like everything else in life, the best you know is the best you've experienced.

ac

 

[EricV]

Im considering a flash but would love to get perspective from diehard dirt riders. Does the flash give too much wheel spin off road? Is there different maps for offroad riding? Thx for any input!

That's a great question! I would think that traction control, (TCS), still works the same. I typically use 2 for gravel. Do the flashed riders typically use 2? Or turn TCS off completely? I don't recall seeing anything that indicates that TCS is impacted by the Flash, is it altered?

@Dallara - If someone was reasonably close to me and willing, I'd be interested in riding a flashed bike. Not sure I've got the time to run up to SLC with my current schedule, (even if that wild, wheelie king Pluric was game).

My point of reference is simply that I don't notice the 'issues' you feel are corrected with the flash. I'm not as skilled a dirt rider as Dirt_Dad or you, so wheel spin is not something I intentionally do very often. I don't ride with TCS off unless I'm in a sticky situation where I need to 'dig' my way out. (hate that powder sand) I don't grab a big handful of throttle in the first three gears, so don't notice the restrictions. They may actually help me off pavement!

All the raving simply doesn't impress me. It's about things I have no problem with. I like the engine braking the way it is, thank you very much Yamaha. Less need to brake, works just fine by modulating the throttle. I noticed that on my first ride, having come off the FJR where there is very little engine braking from the inline four engine. For me, the additional engine braking was something I liked.

 

[avc8130]

That's the beauty of having options...one of which being to leave your bike stock.

If I flash the ECU, the TCS is the same as stock. The TCS is actually derived directly from the R1 and as we all know, VERY GOOD.

Personally, I was riding in the dirt in WV this past weekend. I brought my bike with my own "T Light" and "Enhanced S" maps. I thought I would use T Light most of the time on the unpaved roads. I found I wanted Enhanced S to be able to spin the tire at will. I know others really like a more muted response in the dirt.

Personally, I like a bit less engine braking. I like to be able to hit downshifts without upsetting the suspension. This lets me downshift to be in the right gear to EXIT the corner and use the BRAKES to slow the bike. It's all about personal preference.

That's one of the best things about flashing the ECU, if you can articulate what you would like into words, you can have your cake and eat it too.

If you like stock, good, you save a few bucks. However, don't downplay the results of something unless you've at least TRIED it yourself.

ac

 

[AlsoRan]

Im considering a flash but would love to get perspective from diehard dirt riders. Does the flash give too much wheel spin off road? Is there different maps for offroad riding? Thx for any input!

Paul466,

Just a couple of thoughts regarding your excellent question about wheel spin when riding a flashed bike in the dirt. My discovery is that wheel spin can be managed with any of the flashes for the Super T but there are some combinations that offer the potential for more aggressive power, the most being the Gen-2 flash in S mode.

So how does it relate to a flashed bike vs. non flash and TC2 vs. TC off?

Example #1 - Flashed bike in S mode with TC off: offers the most capability for an experienced dirt rider since the Gen -2 flash will provide more "snap" or instant power delivery, especially recovering from down low in the RPM range. This is not only craved but is important for negotiating more difficult situations and it is a must sometimes to save your butt when things go awry. Lot's of tools to work with. The TC off allows for maximum wheel spin. This combination requires more effort to manage wheel spin however (usually with clutch).

Example #2 - Stock bike in T mode with TC on the #1 setting: this is the other extreme and can lead to the bike being defenseless in some situations when venturing into more technical terrain besides a dirt road or flat two-track. Hit a soft spot of dirt or sand with very little momentum and there may not be enough "instant" power to save a tip over, especially when the bike is loaded and the rider is not using clutch properly. The TC-1 will regulate the wheel spin too much and the bike will loose momentum which is a big no-no.

After riding the bike stock and with flashes, I know that I have enjoyed the improve power with a re-flashed bike. I have not heard of a dirt-specific flash, but the combinations that I have found to work best for each for me are:

#1 - Hybrid Flash in T mode, TC#2 setting or Off
#2 - Gen -2 Flash, S mode (most clutch to regulate the snap), TC#2 setting or Off.
#3 - Gen -1 Flash (can't get anymore), S mode, TC Off
#4 - Stock, S mode, TC#2 or Off

I like the Hybrid T mode because it gives plenty of power but requires less effort than the other combinations. It's a good trade off. Also I typically run in TC-2 which seems to be a good overall setting for most of what I do with the bike. TC off is reserved for trickier situations. But if you are running stock flash for now I would run in S mode for sure. Just try and anticipate those situations when you need power to get through and deliver it early!

Bottom line, there is not too much wheel spin with a re-flash! ::26::

 

[EricV]

That's one of the best things about flashing the ECU, if you can articulate what you would like into words, you can have your cake and eat it too.

I really like that statement AC. I think it's very accurate and honest. And I say that w/o sarcasm. It can be difficult to articulate what you want in a custom flash, until you've had one. You certainly can say what you like/dislike and work with the tuner to hopefully get what you're looking for, in terms of changes and improvements. You have an edge there, in favor of your customers, because you ride a S10 too.

But like a custom seat, sometimes it takes having it first, before you speak the language that allows you to help the builder make what works for you. Every experience is unique.

I like to be able to hit downshifts without upsetting the suspension. This lets me downshift to be in the right gear to EXIT the corner and use the BRAKES to slow the bike. It's all about personal preference.

I completely agree, if we're speaking of riding on the track. Downshifts should come during or just prior to threshold braking, then you're immediately back on the throttle. I'm not as solid on your concern of upsetting the suspension, because a properly executed downshift with rev match won't, but I suspect it's simply a difference of terms we're using to describe the same thing.

On the street, I don't throttle out of corners. I enter and exit at the same speed. I may downshift prior to the corner, but I'm not losing speed going in and gaining going out, I set my speed for the corner before I get there, carrying as much speed as I feel the corner merits. Don't confuse this with slow, it's not. I brake when I'm coming to a stop. You rarely see my brake light at any other time. This style of riding may be why I don't get as excited about the flash potential. Your way displays benefits of the flash much more than my way.

 

[XtreemLee]

Okay I'm thinking more and more about unlocking this hidden potential.

But here is a very serious question. I take drugs that cause an off and on tremor of my right hand. Taking the drugs is not an option I have to take them. I would like a t-mode that was muted enough so when I'm experiencing the tremor I won't be "surging". Then I would like a "balls out" map. Do u experienced reflashers know if that could be done. I used to buy a grip with a larger diameter which reduced the tremor to the engine by increasing the leverage at the throttle.

 

[hANNAbONE]

I'm waiting.......

meet me for a romp on mine and you will be "changed"

call me.....

 

[jaeger22]

Okay I'm thinking more and more about unlocking this hidden potential.

But here is a very serious question. I take drugs that cause an off and on tremor of my right hand. Taking the drugs is not an option I have to take them. I would like a t-mode that was muted enough so when I'm experiencing the tremor I won't be "surging". Then I would like a "balls out" map. Do u experienced reflashers know if that could be done. I used to buy a grip with a larger diameter which reduced the tremor to the engine by increasing the leverage at the throttle.

Talk to AC. I am sure he can set it up the way you want. Heck, I could do it easy and AC is 10 times (OK maybe 20 times) more experienced at it than I am.

 

[avc8130]

Talk to AC. I am sure he can set it up the way you want. Heck, I could do it easy and AC is 10 times (OK maybe 20 times) more experienced at it than I am.

We are already in touch ::26::

ac

 

[AlsoRan]

I would like a t-mode that was muted enough so when I'm experiencing the tremor I won't be "surging". Then I would like a "balls out" map. Do u experienced reflashers know if that could be done.

It's been done already. It's a hybrid flash, somewhat of a secret but there are a few that have it. It's the current Gen-2 Sport mode and a more powerful T mode than what the Gen-2 flash offers. I use T mode 100% of the time now. It offers the benefit of the power but without the touchy throttle response. What do you mean by "surging"? Could be that a more tame T mode would be better such as what is offered with the standard Gen-2 re-flash. (Big hit S mode and stock T mode).

 

[XtreemLee]

What do you mean by "surging"?

The "surging" is caused by me and my wrist tremor (basically i'm not holding the throttle steady), it sucks but usually is somewhat controllable.

I will be pulling my 2014 ES, ECU for reflash. I'm convinced that I too need to unlock this potential now...

 

[Dant3]

We need Avc to move to Europe, so we can get some hybrid tlc for the s10's here .

 

[avc8130]

We need Avc to move to Europe, so we can get some hybrid tlc for the s10's here .

Put a big enough group together and fly me to a central location. Have laptop, could use European vacation.

::012::