ECU Flash

BLW

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Sep 19, 2020
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Reno ,Nevada
However, it is the low rev ranges where the emission maps run far too lean and need to have fuel added. Exactly the area where the lambdas function to try to lean up the map again! Ideally the air/fuel ratio should be between 12.5 and 13.5 at all times. When we did the baseline run before flashing my bike the lower rev areas were reading 15 a 16 and at one point were off the chart too lean. If you look at my graph you can see that in most areas now the A/F is within the 12.5 to 13.5 parameter. If the lambdas were still functioning they would be trying to lean out the AF outside the parameters again because that’s what the emissions rules dictate.
It sounds like you were standing right there while he was tuning your bike, did he use "Flash tune" to do it or some other program?
 

MattR

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Nov 16, 2019
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543
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North Hampshire UK
From memory he used an application called Win (something)
The point is if you’ve mapped using the results obtained from the Dyno you don’t want the lambdas to then alter what you’ve put in because they are already at the optimum settings. On my other bike I disconnected and removed the lambda without any issues because it’s a 2012 bike and doesn’t have all the fault alerts that the S10 2017 has.


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BLW

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Sep 19, 2020
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Reno ,Nevada
I noticed that you are in the U.K. , I am in Reno Nevada and I am at 4500 feet , I can go up to Tahoe and be around 8500 feet or down to San Francisco and be at sea level. If I disconnected the lambdas how would the bike adjust the fueling to compensate for the altitude changes.
 

jbrown

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Sep 25, 2012
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Novato, CA
I noticed that you are in the U.K. , I am in Reno Nevada and I am at 4500 feet , I can go up to Tahoe and be around 8500 feet or down to San Francisco and be at sea level. If I disconnected the lambdas how would the bike adjust the fueling to compensate for the altitude changes.
The ECU uses a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor to calculate the mass flow of air. That is used along with the table values in the fuel maps to determine how much fuel to inject. This compensates for elevation changes.
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
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Jun 20, 2015
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Ventura, CA
I’m not sure it Anthony disables the O2 sensors or just uses them to control his new settings, anyone know for sure? (I’ve left them connected). Having said that I’ve had my bike over 12,000 feet in the Rockies and I live at sea level, so it’s seen the extremes. The bike responds flawlessly under all altitude conditions. I know the system is still adjusting the mixture because I get higher MPGs riding at altitude than around home at sea level.

Regarding the O2 sensors themselves, they’re just sensors, they don’t dictate any specific fueling parameters, the ECU just uses the signal to adjust mixture per the ECU programming.


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BLW

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Sep 19, 2020
Messages
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Reno ,Nevada
The ECU uses a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor to calculate the mass flow of air. That is used along with the table values in the fuel maps to determine how much fuel to inject. This compensates for elevation changes.
I’m not sure it Anthony disables the O2 sensors or just uses them to control his new settings, anyone know for sure? (I’ve left them connected). Having said that I’ve had my bike over 12,000 feet in the Rockies and I live at sea level, so it’s seen the extremes. The bike responds flawlessly under all altitude conditions. I know the system is still adjusting the mixture because I get higher MPGs riding at altitude than around home at sea level.

Regarding the O2 sensors themselves, they’re just sensors, they don’t dictate any specific fueling parameters, the ECU just uses the signal to adjust mixture per the ECU programming.
Thanks for the info guys
 

jbrown

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Sep 25, 2012
Messages
287
Location
Novato, CA
I’m not sure it Anthony disables the O2 sensors or just uses them to control his new settings, anyone know for sure? (I’ve left them connected). Having said that I’ve had my bike over 12,000 feet in the Rockies and I live at sea level, so it’s seen the extremes. The bike responds flawlessly under all altitude conditions. I know the system is still adjusting the mixture because I get higher MPGs riding at altitude than around home at sea level.

Regarding the O2 sensors themselves, they’re just sensors, they don’t dictate any specific fueling parameters, the ECU just uses the signal to adjust mixture per the ECU programming.


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The FlashTune software that Anthony uses (I think he still uses that) doesn't have any provision for disabling the O2 sensors for the S10. They do for certain other bikes. It takes time for a tech at FlashTune to figure out how to disable them, and the S10 isn't a very big market for them. We're just lucky that there is a lot in common in the ECU hardware and software with some more popular Yamaha bikes. So if you want to have the ECU always use the map values directly, you need to swap the O2 sensors for simulators that always show the mix as perfect.
Oh, and the S10 uses narrow band O2 sensors, so they only provide a meaningful signal very close to stoichiometric (they don't tell you the A/F ratio, they say "rich" or "lean" and the software drives the mixture to flip back and forth around that point).
 

Ronzo

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Jul 12, 2020
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Ontario, Canada
ECU Update
Had my ECU flashed last week and my bike is stock so far. I put a few hundred kms on this weekend and here are my initial impressions.

T Mode - Initial flash had a surge in just after take off. To the point that it almost felt dangerous. They removed it after a test ride and did some tweaking and its much better now.

S Mode - Lots more power....significancy! But the throttle still feels realllly snatchy. Like an on or off feeling. Example is when turning a corner in second gear and you give a bit of gas coming out of the corner the bike lurches. Again....not the greatest feeling. I want the power there but not when I move the throttle a pubic hair.
Tuner explained that this is a characteristic of the bike in sport mode. Not entirely sure I agree as no other bike I have had flashed did that.

To the shops credit they did say if I was not 100% happy to bring it back and they would take a look. They were very professional and accommodating but I am not sure I can live with sport mode the way it is as my biggest complaint about the unflashed bike was that on/off snatchy throttle.

If it cannot be smoothed out I may revert back to the stock ECU settings.

Kruzzin5 was there at the same time as me and it is always great mtg like minded riders. :cool:He also had some work done so hopefully he chimes in with some opinions/thoughts.

If anyone has any techical advise I can pass along to the tuner I would appreciate it.
 

Drif10

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Jul 22, 2020
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Stalingrad
A simple fix for the snatchy throttle is to adjust the APS. Look at the smooth throttle thread that's active on this page currently. Doing it really calmed down my transition throttle issues.
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
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Jun 20, 2015
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Ventura, CA
My first tune was a Flash Tune canned tune. It did not fix the snatchy throttle in S mode. I had it re-flashed by Anthony and it is butter smooth now. I don’t believe the S mode is inherently snatchy if Anthony was able to eliminate that.


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Kruzzin5

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
283
Location
Newmarket, Ontario
ECU Update
Had my ECU flashed last week and my bike is stock so far. I put a few hundred kms on this weekend and here are my initial impressions.

T Mode - Initial flash had a surge in just after take off. To the point that it almost felt dangerous. They removed it after a test ride and did some tweaking and its much better now.

S Mode - Lots more power....significancy! But the throttle still feels realllly snatchy. Like an on or off feeling. Example is when turning a corner in second gear and you give a bit of gas coming out of the corner the bike lurches. Again....not the greatest feeling. I want the power there but not when I move the throttle a pubic hair.
Tuner explained that this is a characteristic of the bike in sport mode. Not entirely sure I agree as no other bike I have had flashed did that.

To the shops credit they did say if I was not 100% happy to bring it back and they would take a look. They were very professional and accommodating but I am not sure I can live with sport mode the way it is as my biggest complaint about the unflashed bike was that on/off snatchy throttle.

If it cannot be smoothed out I may revert back to the stock ECU settings.

Kruzzin5 was there at the same time as me and it is always great mtg like minded riders. :cool:He also had some work done so hopefully he chimes in with some opinions/thoughts.

If anyone has any techical advise I can pass along to the tuner I would appreciate it.
Same as Ronzo stated, though I had the bike dynoed as well. 1st gear is very sensitive to throttle input, didn’t notice that for 2nd gear. I find with first gear, I have to slip the clutch for a smooth transition. If riding along in 1st gear slow speed... stop and go traffic, the bike is incredibly sensitive to throttle input if not using the clutch. First year stumble is gone. I also noticed that the Revlimiter is gone. The bike revs pretty smoothly up to 8500 to 9000 RPM with no limit. Not sure that I like that, I would like some sort of limitation so I don’t blow the engine by accident. Other than that, the bike is very smooth and responsive, power really comes on strong. In any gear, the bike is very responsive to throttle input and moves quickly.

touring mode is docile. I’m glad it’s that way, as I’ve read others say their touring mode is now the same as sport mode. The bike is tamer moving off and with acceleration.

The maps for my flash are posted on this thread.
 
Last edited:

Checkswrecks

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ECU Update
Had my ECU flashed last week and my bike is stock so far. I put a few hundred kms on this weekend and here are my initial impressions.
...
S Mode - Lots more power....significancy! ...
Actually, you get zero additional power from the flash alone. nada

There's only so much air flow, fuel, cam timing, cam profile, etc, so the end result is that altering the flash just changes the map for how the power is delivered. Typically, it feels like more power, because the relation between throttle position and peak power is customized and no longer as linear as the OEM set it.

The benefit of the dyno is to tune all the variables, especially if a pipe or other mods have been made. This can add power.
 

Kruzzin5

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Newmarket, Ontario
Actually, you get zero additional power from the flash alone. nada

There's only so much air flow, fuel, cam timing, cam profile, etc, so the end result is that altering the flash just changes the map for how the power is delivered. Typically, it feels like more power, because the relation between throttle position and peak power is customized and no longer as linear as the OEM set it.

The benefit of the dyno is to tune all the variables, especially if a pipe or other mods have been made. This can add power.
I understand. The redelivery of air/fuel etc. is optimize for the most efficient power delivery. And in my opinion, it’s worth the expense to maximize the potential of the motorcycle.
 

Longdog Cymru

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Jul 21, 2018
Messages
703
Location
Swansea, Wales, UK
4
ECU Update
Had my ECU flashed last week and my bike is stock so far. I put a few hundred kms on this weekend and here are my initial impressions.

T Mode - Initial flash had a surge in just after take off. To the point that it almost felt dangerous. They removed it after a test ride and did some tweaking and its much better now.

S Mode - Lots more power....significancy! But the throttle still feels realllly snatchy. Like an on or off feeling. Example is when turning a corner in second gear and you give a bit of gas coming out of the corner the bike lurches. Again....not the greatest feeling. I want the power there but not when I move the throttle a pubic hair.
Tuner explained that this is a characteristic of the bike in sport mode. Not entirely sure I agree as no other bike I have had flashed did that.

To the shops credit they did say if I was not 100% happy to bring it back and they would take a look. They were very professional and accommodating but I am not sure I can live with sport mode the way it is as my biggest complaint about the unflashed bike was that on/off snatchy throttle.

If it cannot be smoothed out I may revert back to the stock ECU settings.

Kruzzin5 was there at the same time as me and it is always great mtg like minded riders. :cool:He also had some work done so hopefully he chimes in with some opinions/thoughts.

If anyone has any techical advise I can pass along to the tuner I would appreciate it.
This has been discussed before, but generally, the snatchiness is caused by the fuel being cut-off on closed throttle and any residual mixture in the inlet tract evaporates. Then, when the throttle is opened, there is a pause because there is no fuel mix and the engine has to wait just a fraction of a second to get fuel. The rider can exacerbate this by opening the throttle a little more, then, BANG! the fuel flows and you get snatch! Any decent chip tuner should be able to cancel the fuel cut-off on closed throttle and cure this symptom of fuel injection.

Remember, motorcycles have very light flywheel effect and lower overall mass, especially when compared to cars, and it all stacks up against us especially with the ever more strict regulations for exhaust emissions.
 

Kruzzin5

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Oct 14, 2019
Messages
283
Location
Newmarket, Ontario
[/QUOTE]

Any decent chip tuner should be able to cancel the fuel cut-off on closed throttle and cure this symptom of fuel injection.


So, can the guy who flashed the ECU cancel the fuel cut off?
 
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