Cooked Headlamp Harness
- Thread starter Dallara
- Start date
~
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but correct me if I'm wrong...
Haven't we just learned (pending photos, etc.) that Yamaha has, indeed, come up with an improved and more robust headlamp sub-harness, and all without NHTSA involvement or prodding?
Does there really need to be any sort of "recall" where any all Super Tenere's get called in for new harnesses? Why? After all, the ones that have failed are, in all reality, few and far between, and when they have occurred Yamaha has replaced them with new parts. Even if during some of that period the replacement harnesses (and I have one of these) are no better than the early originals it is apparent that should those harnesses fail that they would be replaced with the latest one...
I dunno'... I just don't see the need for NHSTA involvement. I think Yamaha has done quite well, especially compared to other brands like BMW, and I'd hate to see any government involvement. All that does is raise the price of motorcycles in the future. To me the Super Tenere is a hell of a bargain, even with an occasional cooked headlamp sub-harness. Even if I had to pay for one of the newer replacement harnesses I'd gladly do so. Why do so many os readily want to get the government involved?
For me it's pretty much a situation of "don't sweat the small stuff..."
Dallara
!
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but correct me if I'm wrong...
Haven't we just learned (pending photos, etc.) that Yamaha has, indeed, come up with an improved and more robust headlamp sub-harness, and all without NHTSA involvement or prodding?
Does there really need to be any sort of "recall" where any all Super Tenere's get called in for new harnesses? Why? After all, the ones that have failed are, in all reality, few and far between, and when they have occurred Yamaha has replaced them with new parts. Even if during some of that period the replacement harnesses (and I have one of these) are no better than the early originals it is apparent that should those harnesses fail that they would be replaced with the latest one...
I dunno'... I just don't see the need for NHSTA involvement. I think Yamaha has done quite well, especially compared to other brands like BMW, and I'd hate to see any government involvement. All that does is raise the price of motorcycles in the future. To me the Super Tenere is a hell of a bargain, even with an occasional cooked headlamp sub-harness. Even if I had to pay for one of the newer replacement harnesses I'd gladly do so. Why do so many os readily want to get the government involved?
For me it's pretty much a situation of "don't sweat the small stuff..."
Dallara
!
Hey guys, i'm in the navy and work on the E-6B mercury as a Aviation Electricians mate. ::019:: Regarding the issues with those wiring harnesses overheating i have what we call Teflon tape which is a high temp insulator and i use it all the time on almost every wiring bundle inside the jet engine near the core or the exhaust area and it does the job just fine and is better than the rubber and plastic wire harness covers. If ya'll need some i can ship a roll out to you since i have one extra in my garage. Just P.M me or something. I over hauled my TT-250 wiring and it looks great and cleaned it up some but also used the Teflon tape for bundles near the engine block or the exhaust piping. Food for thought. ::021::
Oh the high temp tape is the grey and the reddish/orange is cherry tape a rubber tape that molds to the wiring... ::002::
Oh the high temp tape is the grey and the reddish/orange is cherry tape a rubber tape that molds to the wiring... ::002::
Attachments
While I agree this isn't a crazy-major issue, it is a safety issue as it effects daytime visibility of the bike, and nighttime safety issues are obvious.Dallara said:~
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but correct me if I'm wrong...
Haven't we just learned (pending photos, etc.) that Yamaha has, indeed, come up with an improved and more robust headlamp sub-harness, and all without NHTSA involvement or prodding?
Does there really need to be any sort of "recall" where any all Super Tenere's get called in for new harnesses? Why? After all, the ones that have failed are, in all reality, few and far between, and when they have occurred Yamaha has replaced them with new parts. Even if during some of that period the replacement harnesses (and I have one of these) are no better than the early originals it is apparent that should those harnesses fail that they would be replaced with the latest one...
I dunno'... I just don't see the need for NHSTA involvement. I think Yamaha has done quite well, especially compared to other brands like BMW, and I'd hate to see any government involvement. All that does is raise the price of motorcycles in the future. To me the Super Tenere is a hell of a bargain, even with an occasional cooked headlamp sub-harness. Even if I had to pay for one of the newer replacement harnesses I'd gladly do so. Why do so many os readily want to get the government involved?
For me it's pretty much a situation of "don't sweat the small stuff..."
Dallara
!
If Yamaha were to issue a voluntary campaign to correct the situation, I'm totally cool with that. Actually, I'd think that would be the responsible thing to do, again, considering the safety facet of the situation.
And we don't know how widespread this is other than the number of people on this forum who've experienced it. There's no way to tell the total number of Teneres affected.
You know, Dallara, from my background I know how these things work - and if this weren't a safety issue I'd be saying nothing...but, this should be addressed, at a minimum, by a voluntary campaign, as, once again, it's a safety issue.
JMHO - but I think Yamaha need to step up and retrofit the bikes with an appropriate harness.
If you've ever had you lights fail when riding at night in the country side you may think differently about what is "small stuff". This can be a killer. My '69 Triumph went dark on me one night, luckily I was in farm country and wound up in the middle of a tomato field. It could have been much worse.... To me this is a big deal.Dallara said:~
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but correct me if I'm wrong...
Haven't we just learned (pending photos, etc.) that Yamaha has, indeed, come up with an improved and more robust headlamp sub-harness, and all without NHTSA involvement or prodding?
Does there really need to be any sort of "recall" where any all Super Tenere's get called in for new harnesses? Why? After all, the ones that have failed are, in all reality, few and far between, and when they have occurred Yamaha has replaced them with new parts. Even if during some of that period the replacement harnesses (and I have one of these) are no better than the early originals it is apparent that should those harnesses fail that they would be replaced with the latest one...
I dunno'... I just don't see the need for NHSTA involvement. I think Yamaha has done quite well, especially compared to other brands like BMW, and I'd hate to see any government involvement. All that does is raise the price of motorcycles in the future. To me the Super Tenere is a hell of a bargain, even with an occasional cooked headlamp sub-harness. Even if I had to pay for one of the newer replacement harnesses I'd gladly do so. Why do so many os readily want to get the government involved?
For me it's pretty much a situation of "don't sweat the small stuff..."
Dallara
!
The fact that Yamaha has produced a great bike doesn't buy them a pass on this potential major safety issue. To take 5 minute to report the problem to NHSTA is no big deal and may be instrumental in saving life's, that's why NHSTA is there. ........ Yes I know a bit dramatic ::025:
Sure they released a new harness, now they need to replace the faulty ones that are on the road before there is an accident.
Dallara, this goes without saying ....... but YMMV. ::26:: ::008::
Regards, Paul.
racer1735
Member
Is Yamaha replacing (on their dime) the melted harnesses on bikes that are out of warranty? And what of those of us who's dealers are not familair with the Super Ten at all (never had one on the showroom floor)?
Travex
Lost is my destination.
Of course it's a safety issue. Yet I'm behind Dallara in that there's no need to involve the government and ultimately impact the cost of our beloved steeds. Heck, they can't even screw in a light bulb w/o screwing it up and making you broke with a black eye whilst doing so. With respect to the harness or any non-operational failure for that matter, I believe the path to correction lies in consternation and appropriately channeled complaint. If it didn't, Yamaha wouldn't have taken the step forward of redesigning the part. Those complaints are the catalysts for change. In fact, thanks to Dallara for this thread as it may just have had something to do with it peripherally. Just getting a little on the record is often enough impetus for improvement. The squeaky wheel is getting the grease.
On my end, I'm just looking forward to the day (more-so the night) when this issue is resolved. Not too much unlike Big Blu, I've also gone blind at night in the remote boonies. It's no fun with eyes far from dark adapted. At any rate, with my season coming to an end (my area uses copious amounts of salt on the road), I'll have it sorted by spring and be on my merry way.
*Correction
Dirtsailor: Former Navy pushbutton/ET here. +1 on the tape!
Big Blu: Love that Twain quote too.
Racer1735: In my case the first failure occurred just outside warranty and my dealer (and Yamaha) have been outstanding in their approach to the problem and it hasn't cost me a cent. My impression is that they'll do likewise elsewhere when approached reasonably. Best of luck to you with it.
On my end, I'm just looking forward to the day (more-so the night) when this issue is resolved. Not too much unlike Big Blu, I've also gone blind at night in the remote boonies. It's no fun with eyes far from dark adapted. At any rate, with my season coming to an end (my area uses copious amounts of salt on the road), I'll have it sorted by spring and be on my merry way.
*Correction
Dirtsailor: Former Navy pushbutton/ET here. +1 on the tape!
Big Blu: Love that Twain quote too.
Racer1735: In my case the first failure occurred just outside warranty and my dealer (and Yamaha) have been outstanding in their approach to the problem and it hasn't cost me a cent. My impression is that they'll do likewise elsewhere when approached reasonably. Best of luck to you with it.
I don't have my Tenere as I sold it, but still follow this forum.
When the reports of the wiring and connectors failing started to come in, I changed mine with a new harness I made. End of problem.
As I am reading this, it seems Yamaha has manufactured a new harness that will solve the problem. That's good news on their part.
However some of the biggest complainers of the safety factor of losing the lights at night, are still riding their bikes. All the while complaining to the NTSB. If it is really that much of a problem, put the bike up and not ride it until the problem is solved.
And complaining about loose spokes to the NTSB,,,,, Really!!! ::025::
When the reports of the wiring and connectors failing started to come in, I changed mine with a new harness I made. End of problem.
As I am reading this, it seems Yamaha has manufactured a new harness that will solve the problem. That's good news on their part.
However some of the biggest complainers of the safety factor of losing the lights at night, are still riding their bikes. All the while complaining to the NTSB. If it is really that much of a problem, put the bike up and not ride it until the problem is solved.
And complaining about loose spokes to the NTSB,,,,, Really!!! ::025::
All mfg monitor warranty work and do failure analysis on the failed parts. I suspect it was warranty activity, not this forum, that resulted in an upgraded harness.Travex said:
You do make a good point on squeaking wheels. When I get a chance next week I'll give the folks at Yamaha Customer Relations a call @ 800-962-7926. Other squeakers are invited to do the same.
Regards, Paul
Sure I'm still riding my bike, exclusively during the daylight hours till next spring. Before I go long again, with the potential of riding at night, the new harness will be installed, either by me or by Yamaha.japako said:
Regards, Paul
Sparko
Member
Here is a photo of the new harness.
Attachments
Mark R.
Member
Sweet. Those wires are MUCH thicker than the previous version.Sparko said:
The S10 rental I had in Australia kept losing the right light while I was hooking them in a strange and unknown land to me. Late night and raining.
I had to make it back to Melbourne that night and it turned into a 13 hour run.
It sucked big time when that bulb would go dark.
When it would, I looked for a safe spot to stop and I would pull the cover and jiggle the wires. It would relight.
(This is before all this documentation was here)
If I knew what I know now, I probably could have fixed it the first time it went out.
Regardless, it sucked at the time.
I might now change mine out with the new part.
I had to make it back to Melbourne that night and it turned into a 13 hour run.
It sucked big time when that bulb would go dark.
When it would, I looked for a safe spot to stop and I would pull the cover and jiggle the wires. It would relight.
(This is before all this documentation was here)
If I knew what I know now, I probably could have fixed it the first time it went out.
Regardless, it sucked at the time.
I might now change mine out with the new part.
I've already ordered mine. ::008::snakebitten said:The S10 rental I had in Australia kept losing the right light while I was hooking them in a strange and unknown land to me. Late night and raining.
I had to make it back to Melbourne that night and it turned into a 13 hour run.
It sucked big time when that bulb would go dark.
When it would, I looked for a safe spot to stop and I would pull the cover and jiggle the wires. It would relight.
(This is before all this documentation was here)
If I knew what I know now, I probably could have fixed it the first time it went out.
Regardless, it sucked at the time.
I might now change mine out with the new part.
Mark R. said:
Sounds like a great use of the YES warranty for those with browned connectors.
~
Note: this is to respond to a few different posts and posters, hence the multiple quotes...
Kind offer... But before we get ahead of ourselves, let me ask you this:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of this type of teflon tape to insulate wiring from *EXTERNAL* heat - i.e. to protect such wiring from exhaust heat, etc.? If so, putting teflon tape on the wiring in this situation and application would be the *LAST* thing you want to do... Why you may ask?
Well, in this instance the wiring itself is what's heating up - due to increased resistance is the accepted reasoning - and then the wire itself is melting the insulation and the bulb plug connector - i.e. the wire itself is getting too hot from *INTERNAL* heating. As such, the last thing you would want to do is wrap the existing headlamp sub-harness and its wiring with a teflon insulation that would be more likely to *RETAIN* more heat - i.e. insulating the wire further from cooling.
The insulation of the wire is not the problem... The small gauge of the wiring is, as is the rather questionable headlamp connector plug...
You address two important points, Creggur...
One is, of course, the "safety issue", and while I can certainly see your reasoning I wonder how much of real-world safety issue it really is. IIRC, from every report on this forum no one has *EVER* lost both lights. It seems that it's always one that blinks out, and if you think about that a bit it makes sense that only one would go at a time. Everything points to it being a load and resistance issue with the questionable headlamp sub-harnesses, and as soon as one side quits the system suddenly has less load on the entire harness itself, and the temp most likely drops, leaving the remaining headlamp operating fine for who knows how long...
If the worst thing that happens is only one headlamp goes out due to the harness then it's not nearly the "safety issue" one might first think... at least to my mind.
Your second point has to do with the number of bikes that may, or may not, have experienced the problem. Even if you look at the number of instances reported here versus the number of members it's still a pretty small percentage. Should such a small percentage trigger a full-blown NHTSA recall? Seems to me that Yamaha is, indeed, handling the matter voluntarily as the failure occurs, and have been all along. When one fails, they replace it, free of charge, and have apparently done this even if the bike is out of warrantly. What more could one ask? My bike was one of the first to have the problem, and Yamaha replaced the sub-harness under warranty, free of charge, and the replacement they gave me has worked flawlessly ever since. I check it from time to time and it looks fine. When and if it has an issue I have no doubt Yamaha will replace it, and do so with the newer, updated harness version... Why should they replace ones that haven't failed, and apparently never will?
Well, you're making an inaccurate assumption there, Big Blu...
First off, I've had a bunch of old Triumph's... a '67 200cc Tiger Cub, a '67 TR6, a '69 T120, and a '75 T160... And I still own a '73 Norton Commando. I had *ALL* sorts of electrical issues that Triumph, or Norton, never addressed, or even acknowledged!!! ::025::
Second, I've had the lights on bikes of mine go out at night... More than once, and not just with British bikes.
But your and my various light failures "back in the day" really aren't relevant to this issue. As I mentioned above, from all I have seen, read, and noted I don't think there has been any Super Tenere that has lost both headlamps simultaneously... There seems to always be one that remains on, and that's one of the great thing about having two fully functional headlamps - i.e. both sides have hi and lo beam, unlike, say, the R1 - redundancy. If you lose one you still have the other.
And regarding "now they need to replace the faulty ones that are on the road before there is an accident..."
Well, perhaps you need to review how the NHTSA works... To have a "safety recall" there has to be at least one incident where the default did, indeed, cause an accident. In most cases there has to be more than one accident. Just check out what recently happened when BMW LT riders tried to get a "safety recall" for final drives... Lots of reports. Lots of failures. But no accidents, and hence no recall.
Anyway, it still seems to me the best way for this to be handled is exactly how Yamaha is handling it - replacing each and every sub-harness that has a problem as it fails. At least they acknowledge there's a problem - after all, they have upgraded the replacement harness. Think about it... That's a hell of a lot better than some other manufacturers! ::025::
Amen, Japako... Except I don't this issue has anything to do with airplane crashes!!! (http://www.ntsb.gov/) ::025::
Kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face, don't you think, Big Blu?
I mean, there are a ton of Super Tenere's running around out there that have *NEVER* had the issue, and from all evidence the ones that do only lose *ONE* of the two lamps even if they do have the problem... I certainly haven't let it bother me in over 35,000 miles on my Super Tenere... Any more than I quit road racing when I lost the lights in an endurance road race and ran off the course! ::025::
Thanks, Sparko!!! ::008::
Dallara
~
Note: this is to respond to a few different posts and posters, hence the multiple quotes...
dirtsailor said:
Kind offer... But before we get ahead of ourselves, let me ask you this:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of this type of teflon tape to insulate wiring from *EXTERNAL* heat - i.e. to protect such wiring from exhaust heat, etc.? If so, putting teflon tape on the wiring in this situation and application would be the *LAST* thing you want to do... Why you may ask?
Well, in this instance the wiring itself is what's heating up - due to increased resistance is the accepted reasoning - and then the wire itself is melting the insulation and the bulb plug connector - i.e. the wire itself is getting too hot from *INTERNAL* heating. As such, the last thing you would want to do is wrap the existing headlamp sub-harness and its wiring with a teflon insulation that would be more likely to *RETAIN* more heat - i.e. insulating the wire further from cooling.
The insulation of the wire is not the problem... The small gauge of the wiring is, as is the rather questionable headlamp connector plug...
creggur said:
You address two important points, Creggur...
One is, of course, the "safety issue", and while I can certainly see your reasoning I wonder how much of real-world safety issue it really is. IIRC, from every report on this forum no one has *EVER* lost both lights. It seems that it's always one that blinks out, and if you think about that a bit it makes sense that only one would go at a time. Everything points to it being a load and resistance issue with the questionable headlamp sub-harnesses, and as soon as one side quits the system suddenly has less load on the entire harness itself, and the temp most likely drops, leaving the remaining headlamp operating fine for who knows how long...
If the worst thing that happens is only one headlamp goes out due to the harness then it's not nearly the "safety issue" one might first think... at least to my mind.
Your second point has to do with the number of bikes that may, or may not, have experienced the problem. Even if you look at the number of instances reported here versus the number of members it's still a pretty small percentage. Should such a small percentage trigger a full-blown NHTSA recall? Seems to me that Yamaha is, indeed, handling the matter voluntarily as the failure occurs, and have been all along. When one fails, they replace it, free of charge, and have apparently done this even if the bike is out of warrantly. What more could one ask? My bike was one of the first to have the problem, and Yamaha replaced the sub-harness under warranty, free of charge, and the replacement they gave me has worked flawlessly ever since. I check it from time to time and it looks fine. When and if it has an issue I have no doubt Yamaha will replace it, and do so with the newer, updated harness version... Why should they replace ones that haven't failed, and apparently never will?
Big Blu said:
Well, you're making an inaccurate assumption there, Big Blu...
First off, I've had a bunch of old Triumph's... a '67 200cc Tiger Cub, a '67 TR6, a '69 T120, and a '75 T160... And I still own a '73 Norton Commando. I had *ALL* sorts of electrical issues that Triumph, or Norton, never addressed, or even acknowledged!!! ::025::
Second, I've had the lights on bikes of mine go out at night... More than once, and not just with British bikes.
But your and my various light failures "back in the day" really aren't relevant to this issue. As I mentioned above, from all I have seen, read, and noted I don't think there has been any Super Tenere that has lost both headlamps simultaneously... There seems to always be one that remains on, and that's one of the great thing about having two fully functional headlamps - i.e. both sides have hi and lo beam, unlike, say, the R1 - redundancy. If you lose one you still have the other.
And regarding "now they need to replace the faulty ones that are on the road before there is an accident..."
Well, perhaps you need to review how the NHTSA works... To have a "safety recall" there has to be at least one incident where the default did, indeed, cause an accident. In most cases there has to be more than one accident. Just check out what recently happened when BMW LT riders tried to get a "safety recall" for final drives... Lots of reports. Lots of failures. But no accidents, and hence no recall.
Anyway, it still seems to me the best way for this to be handled is exactly how Yamaha is handling it - replacing each and every sub-harness that has a problem as it fails. At least they acknowledge there's a problem - after all, they have upgraded the replacement harness. Think about it... That's a hell of a lot better than some other manufacturers! ::025::
japako said:
Amen, Japako... Except I don't this issue has anything to do with airplane crashes!!! (http://www.ntsb.gov/) ::025::
Big Blu said:
Kind of cutting your nose off to spite your face, don't you think, Big Blu?
I mean, there are a ton of Super Tenere's running around out there that have *NEVER* had the issue, and from all evidence the ones that do only lose *ONE* of the two lamps even if they do have the problem... I certainly haven't let it bother me in over 35,000 miles on my Super Tenere... Any more than I quit road racing when I lost the lights in an endurance road race and ran off the course! ::025::
Sparko said:
Thanks, Sparko!!! ::008::
Dallara
~
All good point, Dallara, and again, if I didn't believe it were a safety issue, my opinion of this would be different.
Even in daytime riding our lights are part of the visibility of the bike. Is that a huge issue? Maybe not, but in the land of retirees (Florida) you want everything available to bring attention to you while riding.
The night riding hazards are obvious: the bike was designed with two lights, and they should both work.
Yamaha wouldn't have gone through the time and expense to redesign the harness unless they knew there were issues.
If the new harness provides better reliability of a basic safety system on the bike, I'd like it retrofitted. Mine went south at less than 10,000 miles, so I'll still be under the YES coverage when the current one goes if history is a guide. Not all Tenere owners will be so lucky, and I simply think the bike should be properly equipped for the headlamps to be reliable...
Even in daytime riding our lights are part of the visibility of the bike. Is that a huge issue? Maybe not, but in the land of retirees (Florida) you want everything available to bring attention to you while riding.
The night riding hazards are obvious: the bike was designed with two lights, and they should both work.
Yamaha wouldn't have gone through the time and expense to redesign the harness unless they knew there were issues.
If the new harness provides better reliability of a basic safety system on the bike, I'd like it retrofitted. Mine went south at less than 10,000 miles, so I'll still be under the YES coverage when the current one goes if history is a guide. Not all Tenere owners will be so lucky, and I simply think the bike should be properly equipped for the headlamps to be reliable...
pqsqac
Bike Name: Blue Spirit
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
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Just ordered mine from Stadium yammi discount plus shipping was 77.50
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olie
Member
This is a safety issue so Yamaha should issue a voluntary recall. If not, it is fair to register the complaint with the government.