Brake pad life - what's to be expected

[DinX]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

I have a service contract on this bike. (first one in my life)
At the 12,000 mile service, the technician stated the fronts were in great shape but he questioned if the rear would be good until 16K.

I was surprised. I too have always been a very light rear brake user on street.

He guessed that the linked braking (which I have grown to like) was the culprit with me riding 2-up and loaded so much of the time.

Did I read somewhere that the S10 even compensates for heavier loads in the linked system? Uses more rear brake when heavy?

Sure seems like I did.


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I haven't seen a builtin scale yet on my S10 ^-^

 

[Don in Lodi]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

You'd be amazed at how many cars out there have a ride level sensor some where on them.

 

[jajpko]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

OK, as promised here are some pictures of my rear brake pads and rotor at 23000km's (14400 miles).

First image shows inner pad to the left and outer pad to the right. I had about 2mm left on the inner pad (across entire surface), but outer pad only had 0.7mm left at the front and 0.5mm at the rear of the pad.

The second image is a close up of the rear part of the outer pad. Note the very clear evidence of metal to metal caused by the protruding part of the pad chassis.

Third image is a repeat of the above from a different angle.

Fourth image is the brake rotor. There is quite a lot of visible wear on the rotor that is not completely obvious from the picture. If you look closely at the image you can see where the pad chassis protrution has contacted outer part of the rotor, just in from the edge.

Clearly my rear pads should have been replaced about 2000km's or so earlier. In my mind this is unusually fast wear. Now that I have replaced pads I have noted that rear rotor gets quite hot and I know that I do not accidently rest my foot on the brake pedal.

Did you replace the silicon grease for the slides? Also did you notice if they were dry when you removed the caliper?

I have taken a very flat piece of steel or aluminum and used the stick on sandpaper pads of different grades. This will help smooth the rotor if it is not too bad.

 

[snakebitten]

fast rear brake pad wear

Found this in a review of the Super Tenere:

Brakes are linked front-to-rear, so the hand lever automatically activates both front and rear brakes, while the foot pedal only activates the rear brake. The linked system adjusts the ratio of front to rear braking by comparing lever pressure to the rate of deceleration; if a lag is detected due to greater weight (like a passenger, or cargo), more pressure is directed towards the rear brake.


So it would seem that there would be more wear on the rear brake pads if you carry a heavier load. (no scale needed )

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[RMac]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Did you replace the silicon grease for the slides? Also did you notice if they were dry when you removed the caliper?

I have taken a very flat piece of steel or aluminum and used the stick on sandpaper pads of different grades. This will help smooth the rotor if it is not too bad.

Coming to think of it the slides were bone dry, but I didn't add grease, nor did I apply any grease to the brake caliper piston. I didn't have any grease on hand when I replaced the pads anyway. So, thanks for the tip, I will go back to it and give it all a good greasing up. Maybe the dryness has contributed to the fast wear. The rotor is looking in a bit better shape now after a few days with new pads.

 

[jajpko]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Coming to think of it the slides were bone dry, but I didn't add grease, nor did I apply any grease to the brake caliper piston. I didn't have any grease on hand when I replaced the pads anyway. So, thanks for the tip, I will go back to it and give it all a good greasing up. Maybe the dryness has contributed to the fast wear. The rotor is looking in a bit better shape now after a few days with new pads.

That may have added to the quick wear of the pads. Also the rotor will heat up more if the pads are dragging.

After finding so many places where grease was supposed to be, and finding none, I disassembled and cleaned and greased a bunch of items. The rear brake was one of them. Just remember to use Silicon grease on the brake slides.

 

[dcstrom]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Coming to think of it the slides were bone dry, but I didn't add grease, nor did I apply any grease to the brake caliper piston. I didn't have any grease on hand when I replaced the pads anyway. So, thanks for the tip, I will go back to it and give it all a good greasing up. Maybe the dryness has contributed to the fast wear. The rotor is looking in a bit better shape now after a few days with new pads.

Mine had plenty of grease, added a tiny dab more when I reassembled.

I installed EBC HH sintered pads, because they were the easiest to get at short notice. In the first mile, with no bedding in, they feel more powerful than stock. I guess they can increase rotor wear though - which is already an issue for me with the stock pads. I'll get the guys at Romney Cycles to give the rotor a look next weekend when we are there for the Tenere gathering (http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=4141.0)

 

[RMac]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

That may have added to the quick wear of the pads. Also the rotor will heat up more if the pads are dragging.

After finding so many places where grease was supposed to be, and finding none, I disassembled and cleaned and greased a bunch of items. The rear brake was one of them. Just remember to use Silicon grease on the brake slides.

Quick question. When and where does high temperature copper grease or ceramic grease have its application for brake assemblies? If you hadn't said Silicon grease I would have automatically gone for one of the former greases.

 

[k woo]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear


3.3mm on my rear pads at 14,167 miles, a little more left on the front sets. Fairly even wear on all around. 8)

 

[Don in Lodi]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Quick question. When and where does high temperature copper grease or ceramic grease have its application for brake assemblies? If you hadn't said Silicon grease I would have automatically gone for one of the former greases.

I use ceramic grease in automotive applications...

 

[jajpko]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Quick question. When and where does high temperature copper grease or ceramic grease have its application for brake assemblies? If you hadn't said Silicon grease I would have automatically gone for one of the former greases.

I have always used Silicon grease and that is what the manual calls for. Perhaps the other mentioned greases would work, but I'll stick with what I know works.

 

[RMac]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

I have always used Silicon grease and that is what the manual calls for. Perhaps the other mentioned greases would work, but I'll stick with what I know works.

Thanks.

 

[RMac]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Japako. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. When I removed the rear caliper the rear caliper bolts and rubber grommets things had plenty of grease on them. You used the word "slider" earlier and by that I assumed you meant the brake pad supports(?) The small spring like rails that the brake pads are seated in. Anyway the brake pad supports were bone dry and the service manual does not indicate that these need to be greased at all so i didn't. Only the rear caliper bolts and grommets need to be greased according to the manual.

So another question. What exact brake part correspond to the "sliders" you refer to?

I have replaced brake pads before, drained, refilled and bled brake systems, etc, but admit that I don't know about proper brake system component lubrication.

 

[jajpko]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Japako. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. When I removed the rear caliper the rear caliper bolts and rubber grommets things had plenty of grease on them. You used the word "slider" earlier and by that I assumed you meant the brake pad supports(?) The small spring like rails that the brake pads are seated in. Anyway the brake pad supports were bone dry and the service manual does not indicate that these need to be greased at all so i didn't. Only the rear caliper bolts and grommets need to be greased according to the manual.

So another question. What exact brake part correspond to the "sliders" you refer to?

I have replaced brake pads before, drained, refilled and bled brake systems, etc, but admit that I don't know about proper brake system component lubrication.

They are called the slide pins and I shortened that to sliders. This will give a very good explanation of why you grease the slide pins.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120411112406AA34iim

 

[Don in Lodi]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Well, I'm going to change things up a bit for FRONT CALIPERS.
The 'sliders' are a feature of floating calipers, floating meaning that the entire caliper floats on lubed metal on/in rubber sleeves. This allows the braking system to compensate for some rotor run-out, side to side movement, and allows for the use of a simpler piston design. We have fixed calipers up front, the rotors are the floating part, and pistons on both sides. The only parts of a fixed caliper that could use some slippery stuff are at the points that the pad contact the actual caliper, the edges, and the piston faces. The edges for obvious reasons, and the piston face because it will help dampen high frequency vibration transfer, squeals. The edge of the pad being contacted by the wavy bent metal tensioner/vibration dampener could use some as well, though not so important as the other edges. The guide pin through the top edge of the pads supports and holds, nothing slides on it except very slowly over the ten-twenty K life of the pad. Adding lube to the guide pin is over the top and gives dirt and debris a place to stick that it probably shouldn't. And you'll have to re-apply it every time you've passed a high pressure hose over it to rinse away the grime. The lube points apply both front and rear, and of course, the rubber on metal sliders.
I don't think anyone has posted for accelerated wear on just one pad, the piston side pad, so I don't think anyone has froze up their rear sliders, lubed well or not. If one slide seizes it will cause the caliper to get cocked and wear the pads at an angle, if both seize, just the piston side pad will be applying.
And a thought on lubes. The reason we all mention these odd sounding lubes, silicone, ceramic, maybe even lithium, is that rubber parts and dinosaur based greases don't mix. Petroleum products tend to rot rubber parts.
I'm done now. ::012::

 

[RMac]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Don, if you go back a page or so you will see that my piston side rear pad (outer) had most wear and that the wear was worst at the rear of the same pad. So, by your description "I" have frozen up one of my rear sliders despite fact that they both seemed well lubed when I detached the rear caliper. I know that something is going on now because my rear rotor is getting very hot despite having replaced the worn pads and adding extra silicon grease to the SLIDERS. Capital letters for word sliders as a realized what was what shortly after replying to Japako.

 

[jajpko]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Don, if you go back a page or so you will see that my piston side rear pad (outer) had most wear and that the wear was worst at the rear of the same pad. So, by your description "I" have frozen up one of my rear sliders despite fact that they both seemed well lubed when I detached the rear caliper. I know that something is going on now because my rear rotor is getting very hot despite having replaced the worn pads and adding extra silicon grease to the SLIDERS. Capital letters for word sliders as a realized what was what shortly after replying to Japako.

With the bike on the center stand, see if you can spin the wheel and have it continue to spin. Not like a bike wheel, but some residual spin.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

If the variation in pad thickness is only a couple thousandths I wouldn't worry about the beveled wear. If the difference is huge, like being able to measure the difference with a regular ruler, then you might see if Yamaha sells a 'hardware kit', new bushings and bellows seal. The bushings are what are meant to hold everything square. The lube just keeps things moving freely.
Edit; and the pads will almost always be touching the rotors, just enough to give a hiss. If there is resistance like Japako mentions it's possible you're holding residual pressure on the caliper somehow. Have you fiddled with the master cylinder and/or the mount at all? I found my brake light stuck on after fiddling with mine, not that that means I was holding pressure too, just that it's possible.

 

[jajpko]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

Well, I'm going to change things up a bit for FRONT CALIPERS.
The 'sliders' are a feature of floating calipers, floating meaning that the entire caliper floats on lubed metal on/in rubber sleeves. This allows the braking system to compensate for some rotor run-out, side to side movement, and allows for the use of a simpler piston design. We have fixed calipers up front, the rotors are the floating part, and pistons on both sides. The only parts of a fixed caliper that could use some slippery stuff are at the points that the pad contact the actual caliper, the edges, and the piston faces. The edges for obvious reasons, and the piston face because it will help dampen high frequency vibration transfer, squeals. The edge of the pad being contacted by the wavy bent metal tensioner/vibration dampener could use some as well, though not so important as the other edges. The guide pin through the top edge of the pads supports and holds, nothing slides on it except very slowly over the ten-twenty K life of the pad. Adding lube to the guide pin is over the top and gives dirt and debris a place to stick that it probably shouldn't. And you'll have to re-apply it every time you've passed a high pressure hose over it to rinse away the grime. The lube points apply both front and rear, and of course, the rubber on metal sliders.
I don't think anyone has posted for accelerated wear on just one pad, the piston side pad, so I don't think anyone has froze up their rear sliders, lubed well or not. If one slide seizes it will cause the caliper to get cocked and wear the pads at an angle, if both seize, just the piston side pad will be applying.
And a thought on lubes. The reason we all mention these odd sounding lubes, silicone, ceramic, maybe even lithium, is that rubber parts and dinosaur based greases don't mix. Petroleum products tend to rot rubber parts.
I'm done now. ::012::

Could not agree more with you Don. I did not think we were talking about the front calipers though.?? But it is good that you brought it up..

 

[RMac]

Re: fast rear brake pad wear

With the bike on the center stand, see if you can spin the wheel and have it continue to spin. Not like a bike wheel, but some residual spin.

Can answer that straight off. No or minimal residual spin. Never have had that with this bike from day 1. Some hiss from the rear when turning it, but have never given it a second thought assuming slight pad contact. I have limited hands on with this bike because you have to let dealer take care of routine service to maintain Yam warranty in my country. BTW, my dealer doesn't know what a TBS is and why it would be done in the first place. That's a by-the-way that I am keenly aware of. So, interested to pursue this as I think my rear pad wear has been too fast based on life of first set of pads. I have a 2010 First Edition by-the-way...


...or mountain out of a mole hill... I did get 14.4k miles out of the outer rear pad. Take away 1000 miles for when I should have replaced it.