Air filters and airbox mods

[dcstrom]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

I've been using K&N in the Super Tenere for 80,000 miles. I chose it not because it's less restrictive (which I don't believe gives any perceptible performance advantage anyway), but because it's re-usable. I'm travelling places that don't have easy access to stock replacement filters, so it's important that I'm able to clean and re-use the filter. Cleaning takes a bit of time, but is only needed every 10-15000 miles. There is never any fine dust in the airbox (I have a thin coating of grease inside it that would catch dust if there was any), and at 90,000 miles the bike uses only 500ml or so of oil between changes. Performance is still good, butt dyno says hardly different from new. Those three things make me think that using the K&N is NOT being unkind to the engine.

 

[shrekonwheels]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Bloody hell! There must be quite a few XT1200Z owners who really hate their bike then? ::025::

Lots of people who simply do not know the damage they are doing to their Motor, K&N Allows more air, with more air comes more particles, the point of having an air filter is to remove particulates.
Next time you change yours, stick your hand in the air box, you will find film. It is not as noticeable if you street only ride, however a good dusty dirt jaunt can ruin a Motor.

BMC are race filters, worse yet.

Do your own research people.

 

[dcstrom]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Shrek, did you miss my post? I don't find any particulates in the airbox, and after using the K&N for 80,000 miles there are no signs of any problems.

Lots of people who simply do not know the damage they are doing to their Motor, K&N Allows more air, with more air comes more particles, the point of having an air filter is to remove particulates.
Next time you change yours, stick your hand in the air box, you will find film. It is not as noticeable if you street only ride, however a good dusty dirt jaunt can ruin a Motor.

BMC are race filters, worse yet.

Do your own research people.

 

[Mark R.]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

I've been using K&N in the Super Tenere for 80,000 miles. I chose it not because it's less restrictive (which I don't believe gives any perceptible performance advantage anyway), but because it's re-usable. I'm travelling places that don't have easy access to stock replacement filters, so it's important that I'm able to clean and re-use the filter. Cleaning takes a bit of time, but is only needed every 10-15000 miles. There is never any fine dust in the airbox (I have a thin coating of grease inside it that would catch dust if there was any), and at 90,000 miles the bike uses only 500ml or so of oil between changes. Performance is still good, butt dyno says hardly different from new. Those three things make me think that using the K&N is NOT being unkind to the engine.

DC, I think your reasons for using a K&N are very valid and make a lot of sense. I would do the same as you in your situation. But for those of us with access to Yamaha parts, the paper filters are pretty darn good and make more sense to me to use.

Mark R.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[dcstrom]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Right Mark - if I was just down the road from a Yamaha dealer I'd probably use stock filters. Given that there is little or no performance advantage, the only reason to use K&N or other filters in that situation is to save a few $$$.

DC, I think your reasons for using a K&N are very valid and make a lot of sense. I would do the same as you in your situation. But for those of us with access to Yamaha parts, the paper filters are pretty darn good and make more sense to me to use.

Mark R.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[caillou]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Well, hope it is not a can of worms...
I have been using K&N filters on different bikes and here are the reason why I do not anymore:

- K&N oiling can be tricky: not enough oil and efficiency is down plus engine too lean when you have carbs (injection will usually correct that), too much oil and you are running too rich. Not a big deal but if I spend some time making fine tuning on my engine, it is not to see my efforts ruined at the first filter cleaning/oiling.
- dust will clogg a K&N very rapidly, and unless you clean it, there is not a lot of things you can do down the road. With a dry air filter, you can gently tap it on your leg and the dust will fall down, enough to finish your trip or reach a dealer.
- greasing the interior of the airbox is a very good idea and an old trick used by desert racers. However, it may help to catch dust not captured by a damaged filter (or one that has not been installed correctly) but the small particles that will go thru the filter are small enough that those are difficult to so see.
- if you want to reuse your filter and save $$$ (although with the changing frequency Yamaha is asking for, compared to K&N, consummables and time it takes, not sure it is the best calculation but however), the UNI filter is a much better product, with oiled foam. It is more restrictive (but filters more as well) and is reusable. Actually, it is quicker to clean and reinstall a UNI than a K&N. Also, eith a UNI, you let it pump the oil and then squizz it to remove as much as you can, so the amount of oil is always almost the same.
- last thing: very few manufacturer - if any? - sell bike with K&N type air filters. Most if not all the all terrain bikes come with a foam + oil filter. Maybe there is a reason?

 

[dcstrom]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

I considered using the foam UNI filters, in fact bought some from Australia (standard on the Oz bikes), but decided I didn't want to deal with cleaning every 3000 miles or so.

I don't know about the K&N "clogging", after 10,000 or more miles between cleanings I don't notice typical signs of a dirty filter - poor mileage and performance. I've never had to clean it except at planned service intervals, and there has been some dusty miles along the way. In fact they are designed to clog a little and this increases filtering efficiency. The downside is that they let a few more particles through when freshly cleaned.

Yes oiling can be tricky - I recommend the spray bottle over the drip bottle. Once you've done it a couple of times it's easy.

One other thing I discovered after drowning my V-Strom one time - with a K&N installed - is that the K&N will let water through the filter without losing integrity, whereas a paper filter can disintegrate and pieces could end up in the engine. Haven't experienced this but I've seen pics. As it was, a couple of hours work blowing the water out of the Strom (water was sitting in top of the injector intakes) and she was as good as new

Here's some interesting info
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/downloads/aftermarketfilters-Airfilters.htm

Well, hope it is not a can of worms...
I have been using K&N filters on different bikes and here are the reason why I do not anymore:

- K&N oiling can be tricky: not enough oil and efficiency is down plus engine too lean when you have carbs (injection will usually correct that), too much oil and you are running too rich. Not a big deal but if I spend some time making fine tuning on my engine, it is not to see my efforts ruined at the first filter cleaning/oiling.
- dust will clogg a K&N very rapidly, and unless you clean it, there is not a lot of things you can do down the road. With a dry air filter, you can gently tap it on your leg and the dust will fall down, enough to finish your trip or reach a dealer.
- greasing the interior of the airbox is a very good idea and an old trick used by desert racers. However, it may help to catch dust not captured by a damaged filter (or one that has not been installed correctly) but the small particles that will go thru the filter are small enough that those are difficult to so see.
- if you want to reuse your filter and save $$$ (although with the changing frequency Yamaha is asking for, compared to K&N, consummables and time it takes, not sure it is the best calculation but however), the UNI filter is a much better product, with oiled foam. It is more restrictive (but filters more as well) and is reusable. Actually, it is quicker to clean and reinstall a UNI than a K&N. Also, eith a UNI, you let it pump the oil and then squizz it to remove as much as you can, so the amount of oil is always almost the same.
- last thing: very few manufacturer - if any? - sell bike with K&N type air filters. Most if not all the all terrain bikes come with a foam + oil filter. Maybe there is a reason?

 

[tubebender]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Stock filter is oil coated paper ::017::

 

[2112]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

We don't have to worry too much about dust in the UK, it's usually raining often enough to keep it from being an issue....

 

[shrekonwheels]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Shrek, did you miss my post? I don't find any particulates in the airbox, and after using the K&N for 80,000 miles there are no signs of any problems.

K&N themselves sell a pre filter for a reason. ::003::

I ran them In nearly everything until working in dusty conditions I pulled the magic filter in one of my power strokes to find dust in the air box, the other two were the same. I took them back and threatened giving the parts guy an Enema, I will never touch one again.

I understand why you chose what you did for your travels however.

 

[dcstrom]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

K&N themselves sell a pre filter for a reason. ::003::

Didn't know that till now - they don't have a pre-filter for the Super Tenere though. I did actually buy some sheet foam and filter oil with the idea that I'd figure a way to lay it across the top of the filter, so it would work as a pre-filter... but after doing a few thousand miles of dirt in Sth America, and not finding any dirt in the airbox, I decided that it probably wasn't worth the trouble. It wouldn't have added much restriction, unless it was dirty, which it would have been fairly quickly. I would have had to clean it a lot more regularly than the filter itself.

 

[Judd]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

I will at times use cotton gauze filters like the K&N but usually stay away from them in cases of "drop in" OEM replacement filters. I have had a drop in K&N I bought for added performance {Production race class only allowed for drop in filters} and found that it actually flowed less air than a clean OEM Yamaha filter. That was first based on jetting and dyno testing then when brought into question, it was flow bench tested. In that application, the K&N flowed less air and by a measurable and significant margin. I have also had issues with several drop in K&Ns not fitting the airbox well. At times the rubber gasket was physically too thin and allowed for dirty air leaking around the gasket seal and at times I noticed the rubber gasket seal was harder/stiffer than the OEM gasket material and just wouldn't "crush" well and again allowed for unfiltered air to get by.

I will also state that if one spends month or two over on bobistheoilguy.com, you will often see one repeatable factor in oil analysis reports that have high silica levels,,, a cotton gauze filter and most of the time that's a K&N.

I often use custom open air filters in different applications and for these application I often use cotton gauze but prefer oiled foam like Uni Filters if readily available and if I do use a cotton gauze type filter, I usually use an oiled foam slip over pre filter.

I will readily admit that oiled cotton gauze filters seem to work the best in application where they get wet. But honestly, that's nearly the only application where I would purposely set out to run a cotton gauze filter if I had an oiled foam option that would work {oil foam doesn't flow as well but if it's a custom app, you can usually size it to where the flow isn't an issue}. In "drop in" applications I would probably stick with OEM type paper unless I had a pressing reason not to "need to clean out in the field and applications where the filter got wet on a regular basis {think ram air type set ups}.

I am not stating that K&N filters are the "debil" and I am not stating that they are crap in each and every application. I am stating that in my experience, the OEM works as well or better in many applications. If you are looking for more air flow in a "drop in" application, be wary of the K&N. ::024::

If someone out there had had great experiences with a K&N in their particular application,,,,, cool beans. Good for you. ::008::

 

[Xt1200zsupertenere]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

ECU is send to ECU unleashed ..... Already have slipon , now time for new airfilter
Look at the filter .... All dirt is att the front att the filter :-\ :-\

 

[Xt1200zsupertenere]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

Right or wrong ... : ., i think the air now have larger effektive filterarea , and by that better cleaning ( in teory )...

Perhaps ARROW front exhaust later , hevent desided yet .

 

[Ramseybella]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

I agree with Mark.R in Albuquerque.
Although I ran BMC in the past and never found dust or sand particles ( in our neck of the woods We have a lot of Silica) I have just used the paper filter on the Tenere as I do more buzzing around on Forestry roads than my Late Tiger 1050 with the BMC.
If I had strictly a road bike I would use the BMC.
Now Piper Cross has a Ten Nerf filter but looks like a PIA to clean, maybe?

http://www.piper-cross.de/motorradluftfilter-uk/news-detail.php?news_id=35

Never the less I am just sticking with paper extra air flow or not, this is probably my last bike anyway unless I win the Lotto..

 

[2daMax]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

I added the DNA filter to the bike after 3 months with the S10 on stock. It was a case of an opportunity or lack of that made me get the DNA. Parts availability is an issue and don't come cheap and an ex-S10 owner was selling his DNA.

Here's what the perceived improvements I can tell:
1. Air intake noise. Sounds fiercer from the rider's position. Never noticed this noise with the stock filter. I am not complaining, I kind of like it.
2. Exhaust note seems louder or did my hearing suddenly improved or my helmet foam is failing? I am liking it also.
3. On Touring mode, it is more responsive and not as laggy. Moving on 1st to 3rd gear feels a lot faster. I guess with the throttle angle limitations set by the ECU, more air is getting through the same hole size means more power.
4. On Sports mode, since I haven't use most of the power band, I can't really judge but do feel the better throttle response from the conservative (chicken) riding style. Still getting used to the explosive acceleration with S mode in the twisties.
5. Throttle jerkyness is gone when doing slow speeds in heavy traffic.
6. Maybe, just maybe, the radiator heats up quicker. I can't compare as the time I put in the DNA, it was still the Monsoon season (cooler) and rode a couple of days. 2 weeks later, I feel it is warmer quicker and now's the hot season.
7. Better Fuel economy.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

UNI !

 

[ord13]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

In general, aftermarket "power" air filters provide 30 % more air intake, not fully compensated by ECU.
From my own eperience (for what it's worth of course), DynoJet PCV is a good and easy to set alternative to re-adjust the air-fuel ratio.
Not really expensive and relatively easy to mount and setup.

I got used to mount it on all injection-fueled bikes I've owned, I've one on my 2011 ST for years now, and no operation issue except a very moderate fuel over-consumption, but nothing really penalizing.

 

[Ironhand]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

UNI !

+1. Properly oiled, nothing gets past these babies, and you can clean them on the side of the "road" in Magadan if necessary.

 

[Xt1200zsupertenere]

Re: High airflow airfilter , k&n , BMC or DNA ?

In general, aftermarket "power" air filters provide 30 % more air intake, not fully compensated by ECU.
From my own eperience (for what it's worth of course), DynoJet PCV is a good and easy to set alternative to re-adjust the air-fuel ratio.
Not really expensive and relatively easy to mount and setup.

I got used to mount it on all injection-fueled bikes I've owned, I've one on my 2011 ST for years now, and no operation issue except a very moderate fuel over-consumption, but nothing really penalizing.

ECU unleached match the map depending what your bike is equipted witch ::008:: ::008:: ,
Theyb" tweek " the program A little bit ritcher ( more fuelrailen ) if you have slipon , " sport " airfilter ...
My only regret is that i didnt spec ARROW headers att the same time .... Did not think of Them then ( havent get Them )