ABS off switch

[roy]

I will be checking into this. After riding the S10 in mountain twisties all weekend I can tell you without a doubt the ABS is not for me. It freaks out on my late braking style. The woody feeling in the front brake lever is not a good feel to me. After racing for 5 years at an expert level and doing trackdays for 5 I knew going in that I would not like the ABS for certain situations. For me going fast on a bike and late braking into a turn to the appex ABS cannot compete with years of experience. I ride with brake lever feel which translates to what the tire contact patch is feeding me back. I can't get that feelign with ABS engaged. I do like the ABS while street riding at a casual city pace becasue you can become lazy on the bike. Spirited riding with ABS is dangerous. This is all just my opinion and comes from years od close contact on track riding at very elevated speeds so don't read into this like most pro ponent ABS'rs do. If it works for you then use it. I also do not like the unified braking system. Not sure how I can defeat that. May have to just slow down on the thing :'(

 

[Waspworks]

I will be checking into this. After riding the S10 in mountain twisties all weekend I can tell you without a doubt the ABS is not for me. It freaks out on my late braking style. The woody feeling in the front brake lever is not a good feel to me. After racing for 5 years at an expert level and doing trackdays for 5 I knew going in that I would not like the ABS for certain situations. For me going fast on a bike and late braking into a turn to the appex ABS cannot compete with years of experience. I ride with brake lever feel which translates to what the tire contact patch is feeding me back. I can't get that feelign with ABS engaged. I do like the ABS while street riding at a casual city pace becasue you can become lazy on the bike. Spirited riding with ABS is dangerous. This is all just my opinion and comes from years od close contact on track riding at very elevated speeds so don't read into this like most pro ponent ABS'rs do. If it works for you then use it. I also do not like the unified braking system. Not sure how I can defeat that. May have to just slow down on the thing :'(

No... Get the S10 into the bush and use it for street play..
Get a sport bike for fun on the twisties.
I had a breathed on Ducati Sport Classic before this.. Similar hp and tq but 80kg lighter and sooo much fun in the twisties. Didnt go too well in the dirt though :

Greg.

 

[roy]

No... Get the S10 into the bush and use it for street play..
Get a sport bike for fun on the twisties.
I had a breathed on Ducati Sport Classic before this.. Similar hp and tq but 80kg lighter and sooo much fun in the twisties. Didnt go too well in the dirt though :

Greg.

I agree Greg but my bking or GSXR are way to hard to ride to the twisties without a truck. I don't get off road much on the Yamaha, a gravel road or three. But I do ride it to areas filled with twisty Tarmac. Bike is great if not for the abs not being able to be turned off.

 

[fredz43]

Roy, you might try the trick of putting it on the centerstand and them running it in second gear to turn off the ABS and then try your late braking style and see if this makes a difference. I thought ABS would only have an effect in a situation where the wheel would lock up without it. Are you braking hard enough that you would be locking up the wheel? Also as for the linked brakes, if you hit the rear first, you unlink them.

If it turns out that there is a difference for you without the ABS in your late braking, there are switches for sale to disable it, but you should be able to do the same with a simple toggle switch in line with the ABS ECU.

This is interesting, please keep us informed of your experiments.

 

[GrahamD]

May even mention it to YAMAHA.

The ABS always on option is to keep the Euro legislators happy.

If the S10 continues to sell OK they may do and upgrade for the non Euro market (hopefully retro-fittable)

Can't hurt, it's only an email.

There are a few pro rider types who may appreciate it.

Cheers
Graham

 

[roy]

I am not sure what the bike is trying to do but I just cannot get a decent feel for where my limit is with the tire contact patch. The harder I try to pull the front lever the more isolated I feel. I have tried the rear brake tap the trail but even that does not talk to me. I finally gave up and just slowed down like a cruiser rider. I used to could fail on my old Vstrom 1000 only limitation being the ground clearance. Oh and the S10 touches down easily but not as soon as a vstrom. The bike is good don't get me wrong but it has some electronic aids I could live without and gave done so for the past 30 years. I don't like the traction control on at all and find myself trapped with it in because you have to stop to change it. That's stupid IMO. I love to brake deep and hard but I guess that's a no go on the S10 at least for now.

One more thing the shaft drive is not as fun as a chain drive. It's been 15 years since I had a shafty and it's a whole new learn how to ride again feeling. I do like not having to lug a can of chain line around and dont miss the adjustment part but they do make a chassis do some strange stuff.

 

[dcstrom]

I am not sure what the bike is trying to do but I just cannot get a decent feel for where my limit is with the tire contact patch. The harder I try to pull the front lever the more isolated I feel. I have tried the rear brake tap the trail but even that does not talk to me.

Roy - as a former racer myself I know what you're talking about... I'm not comfortable yet braking deep but not sure if that's just me taking a long time to adapt to the bike, or if it's something to do with the ABS/UBS and it's always going to be that way. At the moment I'm still faster in the twisties on my Vee. I think that's a combination of the brake feel (even though the S10 has undoubtedly better brakes) and slow steering. The Strom is more flickable (that's relative to the S10 mind you), but at least on the S10, once you find the line it sticks. The Vee has me making lots of little adjustments along the way.

Here's a weird thing - I have Shinko 705's on both the Strom and the S10. On the Strom it makes a great squealing noise when hard on the front, and one time I actually locked the front at about 50mph after holding it at that point for a couple of seconds (with no crash - but I shit myself!). So I know when it's squealing it's getting very close to lockup. On the S10, I can grab a handful of brake, and activate the ABS, and it doesn't squeal at all. If the ABS is letting it get to lockup or very close, why doesn't the tire make the same noise as on the Vee? Will have to test with ABS off.

That said, I'm not complaining about the brakes - it's not intended to be a sport bike after all. PLUS I'm pretty sure ABS saved my arse yesterday. Coming up to a freeway off-ramp, traffic slowing down, I looked sideways for a second then when I looked back the guy in front of me was just about stopped. Faaarrrrrkkkkk... on the Strom I would have had to be easy on the brake for the first half a second to load up the front tire, then go for max braking. On the Super Tenere, I just grabbed a handful, confident that it wasn't going to lock on me. I'm not sure I would have stopped on the Strom - that half-second of gentle braking might have been enough to make the difference between an accident and a bit of a fright!

Trevor

 

[markjenn]

I will be checking into this. After riding the S10 in mountain twisties all weekend I can tell you without a doubt the ABS is not for me. It freaks out on my late braking style. The woody feeling in the front brake lever is not a good feel to me. After racing for 5 years at an expert level and doing trackdays for 5 I knew going in that I would not like the ABS for certain situations. For me going fast on a bike and late braking into a turn to the appex ABS cannot compete with years of experience. I ride with brake lever feel which translates to what the tire contact patch is feeding me back. I can't get that feelign with ABS engaged. I do like the ABS while street riding at a casual city pace becasue you can become lazy on the bike. Spirited riding with ABS is dangerous. This is all just my opinion and comes from years od close contact on track riding at very elevated speeds so don't read into this like most pro ponent ABS'rs do. If it works for you then use it. I also do not like the unified braking system. Not sure how I can defeat that. May have to just slow down on the thing :'(

ABS brakes don't cause a "woody feeling" in the brake lever. If that's your complaint and you're not engaging the ABS, then my take is that you simply don't like the bike's brakes or maybe there is something wrong with them. Absolutely nothing to do with ABS.

If you regularly engage ABS as you trail brake to the corner apex in street riding.... well, you're either very good or very dumb, or more likely a lot of both. You're certainly on the wrong bike for this sort of thing.

- Mark

 

[YamaPA]

For those that are interested in a switch to turn off your ABS. I found the same handlebar mounted switch that is mentioned at the top of this thread from www.SCASSracing.com. I spoke with Steve at SICASS and he assigned a new part number of 12-0201. Price: $17.95. It is the same switch as the KTM map switch 26-029 except it will have bullet style connectors instead of the KTM connectors. The new number is not on the website so you will have to call to order. 248-625-2876
Here is a the link to the KTM switch: http://sicassracing.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35_39&products_id=177

Hello all. First post. Bike acquired a week ago and already I can tell I hate the ABS offroad. If you have any kind of loose surface beneath you, the ABS is an accident waiting to happen offroad. Here in eastern PA all we have is gravel, small rocks, slightly bigger rocks, big rocks and non-movable rocks embeded in the ground.

Am wondering has anyone actually completed the ABS switch install and if so can you direct me to the "instructions" on which wire, where located, how, etc. Thanks in advance.

 

[dcstrom]

Hello all. First post. Bike acquired a week ago and already I can tell I hate the ABS offroad. If you have any kind of loose surface beneath you, the ABS is an accident waiting to happen offroad. Here in eastern PA all we have is gravel, small rocks, slightly bigger rocks, big rocks and non-movable rocks embeded in the ground.

Am wondering has anyone actually completed the ABS switch install and if so can you direct me to the "instructions" on which wire, where located, how, etc. Thanks in advance.

Welcome! I was hammering the Super Tenere around Michaux forest a few weeks ago, I thought the ABS was brilliant! I was faster and safer than when I was riding the same roads on my V-Strom. I bounced the thing off one of those big rocks so hard, going fast and while leaned over, that it knocked the wind out of me and I was sure I'd dinged the front rim. The bike hardly wavered and ploughed right on in the direction I wanted to go. Had I been on the V-Strom I'm pretty sure I would have been in the bushes. Oh, didn't ding the rim either. But I digress, that's not much to do with the ABS, except... the only thing dangerous about the ABS was it was so confidence inspiring that I was going faster than I really should have...

You might want to give it some more time before you decide the ABS is not for you. On normal dirt roads it works extremely well. If you want to try it without, there's a fuse you can pull. Anyone know which one it is?

Trevor

 

[GrahamD]

You might want to give it some more time before you decide the ABS is not for you. On normal dirt roads it works extremely well.

Trevor

This has been a standard "problem" since introduction with this bike as far as I can tell. Those that freak out over the ABS and then get told to "use the force Luke" and come back surprised at what can be done.

Just try throwing caution to the wind on a nice safe piece of dirt road and start with using only the front brake lever. Start at 40km/h and work your way up. Seen it work on gravel with ruts no problem. Then try with Un linking the brakes by applying the rear first. See what happens.

Under about 7Km/h per hour the whole show is off anyway as far as I have read. Old Git Ray posted up pages of info on how the brakes work and a few "Early adopters" had a few back and forth discussions about the subject.

Cheers
Graham

 

[~TABASCO~]

Just a little to add... A week ago I was in a parking lot that was dirt and white rock.. I had to pull up, do a U-turn and go back out the entrance. I did this all this 3-5Mph.... After I got turned around I pulled in the clutch and hit the rear brake on purpose and I DID get the ABS.. I could feel the tire lock / unlock / lock / unlock... I could hear the ABS motor work aswell.. I was going maybe 5..... I have "worked" the ABS from 5-65 off road and IMOP work great! I have not yet experienced any situation that I need to turn the system off. If / when im in AZ,UT,CO and know that im getting in to the nasty stuff I will pop it on the center stand and turn off the system.

 

[YamaPA]

Thanks for the OPINIONS guys, but.....and I dont want to be snippy given that I am just starting to post here, but I was asking a question, not solicting on how good YOU think ABS is in the dirt. ABS may work on packed dirt, but it does not work heading down loose stone and pebbles one bit. You may like it, I dont. Let's just leave it at that. My dirt skills are good enough to know when a bike stops and when it doesnt....the bike simply does not stop with ABS in the off road areas I ride. That's my experience. I want a ABS switch because I dont wish to stop, shut the bike off, put it on center stand, place it in 2 gear and run it for 30 seconds, take it off center stand while wathching those I am riding with evaporate into the sunset.

 

[stevepsd]

Thanks for the OPINIONS guys, but.....and I dont want to be snippy given that I am just starting to post here, but I was asking a question, not solicting on how good YOU think ABS is in the dirt. ABS may work on packed dirt, but it does not work heading down loose stone and pebbles one bit. You may like it, I dont. Let's just leave it at that. My dirt skills are good enough to know when a bike stops and when it doesnt....the bike simply does not stop with ABS in the off road areas I ride. That's my experience. I want a ABS switch because I dont wish to stop, shut the bike off, put it on center stand, place it in 2 gear and run it for 30 seconds, take it off center stand while wathching those I am riding with evaporate into the sunset.

I agree.

With my experiences in Colorado this week (going thru what turned out to be a 12 mile section double-black diamond off-road route) that was nothing but loose rock & shale, with enormous boulders and having down grades of over 30 degrees in sections, I found that hitting the rear brake to help control the descent resulted in the rear brake being very ineffective...the ABS preventing the wheel from locking & sliding....these are at speeds of 1-4 MPH while descending the aforementioned 30 degree grades. The bike would just get faster and faster. In these places anything over a crawl was to fast. Very, very scarey. On everything else on the trail, the ABS worked just fine, in fact really good.

I understand how to disable the ABS by putting the bike on the centerstand, etc...but in the areas that I was in this week, there was no way to put the bike on the centerstand after shutting off the bike(s) to man-handle them down the very treacherous sections...we could not leave them running (or maybe we could) but one section took us almost a hour to get both bikes down.....it was that bad. The only other vehicles we saw on this section were rock-crawlers.

-steve

 

[GrahamD]

Thanks for the OPINIONS guys, but.....and I dont want to be snippy given that I am just starting to post here, but I was asking a question, not solicting on how good YOU think ABS is in the dirt. ABS may work on packed dirt, but it does not work heading down loose stone and pebbles one bit. You may like it, I dont. Let's just leave it at that. My dirt skills are good enough to know when a bike stops and when it doesnt....the bike simply does not stop with ABS in the off road areas I ride. That's my experience. I want a ABS switch because I dont wish to stop, shut the bike off, put it on center stand, place it in 2 gear and run it for 30 seconds, take it off center stand while wathching those I am riding with evaporate into the sunset.

In that case then PM Wasp.

 

[Brntrt]

I agree.

With my experiences in Colorado this week (going thru what turned out to be a 12 mile section double-black diamond off-road route) that was nothing but loose rock & shale, with enormous boulders and having down grades of over 30 degrees in sections, I found that hitting the rear brake to help control the descent resulted in the rear brake being very ineffective...the ABS preventing the wheel from locking & sliding....these are at speeds of 1-4 MPH while descending the aforementioned 30 degree grades. The bike would just get faster and faster. In these places anything over a crawl was to fast. Very, very scarey. On everything else on the trail, the ABS worked just fine, in fact really good.

-steve

::026:: My experiences are exactly the same only in GA. There must be someone who has a DIY fix to disable the ABS.

 

[Combo]

Thanks for the OPINIONS guys, but.....and I dont want to be snippy given that I am just starting to post here, but I was asking a question, not solicting on how good YOU think ABS is in the dirt. ABS may work on packed dirt, but it does not work heading down loose stone and pebbles one bit. You may like it, I dont. Let's just leave it at that. My dirt skills are good enough to know when a bike stops and when it doesnt....the bike simply does not stop with ABS in the off road areas I ride. That's my experience. I want a ABS switch because I dont wish to stop, shut the bike off, put it on center stand, place it in 2 gear and run it for 30 seconds, take it off center stand while wathching those I am riding with evaporate into the sunset.

::026:: ::026:: I would be be very happy with this bike without TCS and ABS. Although it works very good in some conditions and is nice to use it in them. I guess I am old school and rely on myself knowing what to do in each condition. To be honest I want a bike to be consistent without remembering what mode I am in. But may be that's just me. :-\ I don't need any help screwing up. ::025::

 

[~TABASCO~]

::026:: My experiences are exactly the same only in GA. There must be someone who has a DIY fix to disable the ABS.

You can find it online.. Its not that hard to do... It a DIY project... With a little home work it can be done easy..... Because of liability im going to take the high road...

 

[dcstrom]

Thanks for the OPINIONS guys, but.....and I dont want to be snippy given that I am just starting to post here, but I was asking a question, not solicting on how good YOU think ABS is in the dirt.

Sorry, have to say you ARE snippy...

You said " If you have any kind of loose surface beneath you, the ABS is an accident waiting to happen offroad."

That's simply not true. Are you sure you're not a BMW plant? ::025:: ::025::

I said "On normal dirt roads it works extremely well. " I think most here would agree with me. If you'd said, like stevepsd, you were negotiating "nothing but loose rock & shale, with enormous boulders and having down grades of over 30 degrees in sections", that's completely different. You said you are riding dirt roads around PA, I gave an example of my experience on dirt roads around PA. Do whatever you want, but a week and maybe one ride on dirt, doesn't seem to me like you're giving the ABS a fair go.

Trevor

 

[Combo]

Because of liability im going to take the high road...

Just like all the other business in this country afraid of the lawsuits, take your business, shut you down and it should not be that way, but you have no choice but to do so.

I think we all understand.