2013 FJR starter-kill switch cluster

[EricV]

Well, as a corollary to this thread, I ordered the left side FJR switch this morning to use with an aftermarket Rostra CC unit. $200 with shipping and due in at the end of the month it's not backordered.

I'll try to give a good step by step account of that when the time comes.

 

[snakebitten]

Well, as a corollary to this thread, I ordered the left side FJR switch this morning to use with an aftermarket Rostra CC unit. $200 with shipping and due in at the end of the month it's not backordered.

I'll try to give a good step by step account of that when the time comes.

That cluster is even more eye candy than the right side.

 

[EricV]

That cluster is even more eye candy than the right side.

Yes, it is.

On the front side of the switch (front of bike) there is a switch like a flash to pass switch that controls the menu screens.
This side has the switch on the top that controls screen/heated grips and various things on the menu screens.
The light switch on the left has the flash to pass built in (push it down).
The CC is turned on with the switch down by the horn button and then controlled by that obvious switch.

My hope is to use the normal Rostra control pad wires to mate to the Yamaha switch wires for a weather proof switch unit. The momentary front switch, (what was flash to pass), as perhaps something interesting, (aux light flash?) I may remove the top momentary rocker switch, install a blanking plate of plastic or aluminum, and hopefully install my Heat-Troller knob there, (pretty much where I have it now on the Super Ten switch housing).

 

[PowersUSA]

Yes, it is.

Eric, it looks like you tried to post a picture from a gmail image attachment preview. This will appear to work for you when your logged into your gmail account but it shows up as broken for the rest of us since we are not logged into your gmail account

 

[EricV]

Thanks for the heads up power. I'm currently sitting at the airport,waiting to board, so will try and deal with that later.

Copied an image address from an email. Didn't work the way I wanted.

 

[snakebitten]

Hey Eric, (no hurry. Safe travels)

So I gather for your "unswitched" hazards, you built an independent solution that didn't use the existing flasher? So you simply powered a second flasher unit and then used your toggle to interrupt that hot lead to the existing blinker wires?

If so, I was thinking I would first install the PC8 and get the bike prepped for switched and unswitched addons. Then just treat the hazard button on the cluster as my "switch" that connects a second powered flasher to a couple of posi-tapped blinker wires.

Sound ok? That would keep all hardware and connections conveniently in the electrical housing area of the bike. Not sure if it could cause a short if the blinkers switch was engaged at the same time as the hazards switch though.

 

[EricV]

Hey Eric, (no hurry. Safe travels)

So I gather for your "unswitched" hazards, you built an independent solution that didn't use the existing flasher? So you simply powered a second flasher unit and then used your toggle to interrupt that hot lead to the existing blinker wires?

If so, I was thinking I would first install the PC8 and get the bike prepped for switched and unswitched addons. Then just treat the hazard button on the cluster as my "switch" that connects a second powered flasher to a couple of posi-tapped blinker wires.

Sound ok? That would keep all hardware and connections conveniently in the electrical housing area of the bike. Not sure if it could cause a short if the blinkers switch was engaged at the same time as the hazards switch though.

Pretty much yes to all of that. I am using a PC-8 myself. If you use the turn signals when the flasher is on it just flashes oddly with the two circuits competing . No shorts. See my link above.

 

[snakebitten]

Thanks bro. A true gent!!!

 

[snakebitten]

Ok, I got my PC8 kit installed. Really nice kit and the Tenere electrical panel is made for it.

So I proceed to wire up an unswitched circuit of the new distribution block to power my hazard solution.

But I'm missing something. :-[

I run a hot lead from the PC8 to the hazard button on the cluster. (so the button is simply an interrupt for 12 volts)
Then continue that lead to the first pole of the 2 pole dot #552 flasher. Then from the second pole of the flasher to both the brown wire and the green wire using positaps.

Push the hazard button in and bingo, I got flashers. I'm feeling good about my wiring skills.

But if I turn the bikes power on, even if I have the hazards off, I have now bridged the left and right blinkers. So my oem blinker switch is a 4-way flasher switch, regardless if I push it for right blinker or left. (my positaps to both the green and brown wire is bridging them. So when the blinker switch powers one or the other, they are permanently connected)


So I'm back to NOT feeling so hot about my wiring skills. Lol

An additional side effect is if I engage the blinker switch, even with the ignition power off, since my flasher is powered by unswitched pc8 power, the flashers button backfeeds the bike with power and the dash powers up with each flash.

Basically, I can't figure out how to NOT bridge both turn signal sides.

Got lots of pics of how to do it wrong. It WAS gonna be thoroughly documented.

 

[EricV]

In my method, the toggle switch isolates the unswitched power. In yours, you may need a relay or diode to isolate the un-switched power.

If I understand correctly, don't the individual signals have wires going to the new oem switch?

If so, shouldn't your 12v power run thru the new flasher and strait to the hazard button on the cluster? No need to continue on to the signal wires. The switch should then bridge things when pushed, sending power via the new flasher to the individual signals, but when the flasher switch is off, not back feeding things.

 

[snakebitten]

In my method, the toggle switch isolates the unswitched power. In yours, you may need a relay or diode to isolate the un-switched power.

If I understand correctly, don't the individual signals have wires going to the new oem switch?

If so, shouldn't your 12v power run thru the new flasher and strait to the hazard button on the cluster? No need to continue on to the signal wires. The switch should then bridge things when pushed, sending power via the new flasher to the individual signals, but when the flasher switch is off, not back feeding things.

Hey Eric, thanks for responding.

My left side cluster is still the oem Tenere cluster. So blinkers are still just like yours.

The new cluster on the right is from the FJR (2013) and actually has the same exact functions as the oem S10 right hand cluster, except they added a simply push button (2 wire) that is used for flashers on the FJR. So all I really got is a new button on my handle bars that acts like a 2 pole toggle. And I am wanting to use it for adding the flasher option.

If I would just live with "switched" flashers, there is a super easy solution......use the flasher button on the new cluster AS the bridge between left and right blinkers. In other words, to turn on the flashers, I would push in the flasher button, completing the bridge, then hit the normal oem blinker switch. (wouldn't matter if I hit it right or left. Super simple.

But now I'm feeling like it's a challenge!

Ok, so what kind of relay is out there that acts like your toggle switch? By that I mean, it would have enough poles on it that I would use my flasher button as a simple interrupt for the "trigger" on the relay, and once energized, it has 2 independent poles that send power to each turn signal side. (not bridged. When not energized, the 2 output poles are not a closed circuit with each other)

Sorry if I'm not using the right vernacular.

 

[EricV]

Good questions! I think, a fog light relay that has two power out pins, (normally intended to go one to each light), would do the trick and isolate the 12v in power from each signal.

So IIRC, it would be:

30 - 12V power from the PC-8

85 - Ground

86 - switched power, or 12V from the PC-8 to always be hot (trigger wire to trip the relay)

87 - To left turn signal

87 - To right turn signal.

This should not be confused with a 5 pin relay that has an 87 n/o pin and an 87a n/c pin.

 

[snakebitten]

Perfect. I'm gonna find one.

For those that would want the FJR right hand cluster, and could live with switched flashers only, the wiring would take 10 minutes after installing the cluster. (a couple of positaps is all the hardware you would need) And the harness for the cluster already locates the hazard switch leads within reach of the turn signal connector in the S10 battery compartment. Really simple.

But I want unswitched hazards. So I need a method (relay & flasher) that supports an independent flashing solution. Will report back when I get this figured out.

Again, thanks Eric. You have been a big help.

By the way, on this page, http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp , they call it a "Dual make SPST relay"

 

[snakebitten]

Ordered a Dual 87 spst relay.

But I'm all for any KISS method.

But I can't follow what you meant.

PC8 12 volt source wire to (thru) flasher. Then from flasher to one of the 2 wires to cluster button. Then from the button return (2nd) wire to ?

You said something to ground. But I got to connect to the blinker wire(s) at some point. The FJR cluster I have has no wiring to blinkers at all. It is simply a start/kill/s-t mode cluster, just like the S10. With the added "button" labeled hazards that is nothing more that a 2-position (no) switch.

Nothing like your toggle switch you are using for hazards, right? It must have 2 out pins? Keeping the right/left blinkers isolated?

Turns out the dual make (dual 87) relays are much rarer these days. Hella still makes them though. In researching, using 2 relays, one for each circuit, is more the norm now.

Again, this is only complicated because the cluster button is a simple SP ST normally open switch and I'm wanting unswitched hazards. The price for being stubborn.

 

[EricV]

Brain fart on my part. I forgot that we are dealing with the Right side switch, so no turn signal wires already present in the switch. ::010:: The relay should allow you to separate things like I did with the DPST switch and avoid back feeding.

On the right diagram on this page http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/hazards.html you will see how using the DPST allowed power to run thru the flasher and to both pins on that side of the switch, but on the other side, each turn signal is isolated. So both legs are hot on the flasher side, throw the switch and each individual leg gets power to the signals.

If I'm thinking clearly, 12v from the PC-8, thru the flasher, to the 30 pins on two separate relays.

Now it gets tricky. The flasher button is just a simple switch with two wires. To use this as a trigger like you want, you would need it to have 12V power also, so one of it's two wires is coming from the PC-8, (or any un-switched source since it's a no load draw), with the other wire going to the 86 pin on the relay(s).

This leaves the 87 pin from each relay to go to each of the turn signal wires.

And the 85 pin from each relay to a ground. Shouldn't matter if this is shared.

So with the switch off, the relay isolates the normal turn signal power from back feeding thru the system since the relay circuit is open. When the signals are powered normally, the relays are open, so preventing back feed.

I think that works.

 

[snakebitten]

Yep, now you see exactly what I am dealing with! (no worries. I'm grateful you have been willing to sacrifice brain cells on my behalf)
good news though is they make diodes for exactly this situation for travel trailers and towed vehicles. Funny thing is they avoid calling them diodes, calling them "isolators" instead. And their purpose is to prevent the backfeeding of current into the vehicles system.

This will avoid needing to include relay(s) in my solution. In fact, I can leave her wired up as is with simply inserting the "isolators" appropriately.
Then I will document.

 

[snakebitten]

Note, I have edited Post #12 of this thread to include setting up "switched" hazards.

So the end results, if I may, is if you desire to add hazards to a US Tenere, you can purchase the 2013 FJR right side cluster for about $88 and it literally replaces your oem cluster and uses the oem connector housings for all functions, save the hazard button. And even wiring in the hazard button requires 5 minutes of work if you have a couple of 18 gauge Posi-Taps.

 

[stevepsd]

Well, as a corollary to this thread, I ordered the left side FJR switch this morning to use with an aftermarket Rostra CC unit. $200 with shipping and due in at the end of the month it's not backordered.

I'll try to give a good step by step account of that when the time comes.

Eric,

I'll be following your install & integration of the left side FJR switch with the Rostra CC. Have you used the Rostra unit before? What about on the Audiovox aka CCS-100 from Murphs kit? I have used the Audiovox kit before and it works fine, but the all electronic nature of the Rostra is intriguing, plus it might be easier to fit on the ST.

-steve

 

[EricV]

Eric,

I'll be following your install & integration of the left side FJR switch with the Rostra CC. Have you used the Rostra unit before? What about on the Audiovox aka CCS-100 from Murphs kit? I have used the Audiovox kit before and it works fine, but the all electronic nature of the Rostra is intriguing, plus it might be easier to fit on the ST.

-steve

I'm familiar with the Audiovox CCS-100 as I had that kit for the FJR, though never bothered to install it. My main reason for choosing the Rostra is the lack of a vacuum canister and the shortage of fairing space on the Super Ten. I feel that for it to be as waterproof as possible, the sealed electronic box had a better shot of being protected. That is also why I'm using the Yamaha control, to hopefully keep it waterproof, as well as handy button locations.

Nice solution on the isolators/diodes SB.

 

[snakebitten]

Yea, I'm gonna be watching too. Not because CC is something I currently yearn to have, but more so because that "other FJR cluster" is LOADED with buttons and potential gadgetry.

Would be cool to move all the instrument panel functions to the cluster. And I bet auxiliary lights could use up another couple of buttons.