2012 Tenere in the Shop

[AVGeek]

Thanks for that CW...I was wondering about sticking with one brand of gasoline, as my bike lives on Chevron 98% of the time (Shell makes up the other 2%).

 

[tomatocity]

Thanks Checks. Finally some information I understand and can trust. I am still going to get a 2014 piston and rings for the rebuild. Can't justify using the old technology in a 98% new engine.

Deposits are from incomplete or inefficient combustion and combustion is least efficient at low rpm. That's the book answer. As a kid growing up on Atwood Lake in Ohio, my Dad made extra money fixing boat engines and that's where I got my start. I scraped a lot of pistons and heads for the guys who would come in with ski boats and just talk about idling to fish. Later as an A&P mechanic, I'd see the same in airplanes when comparing the same model engine when used mostly at cruise power versus trainers which did lots of idling.


Now, fuel injectors deliver fuel to the inlet sides of the inlet valves and the heat of the valve is used to atomize the fuel. The valves are hotter and flow is faster when at higher rpm which is one reason the inlet sides of the valves get so loaded with deposits, and it's worse at low rpm usage. An occasional high rpm run is not enough to blow this stuff out.


Personally, I'm a commuter and get good MPG which means lots of low rpm riding, so I've been a SeaFoam user for years. Never looked into the difference between it and the Yamaha version. I know there is a difference between SeaFoam and Techron, both of which are good and available at any most car parts store. I've seen the Yamaha Ring Free at West Marine for boat engines.


At the start or end of the season, SeaFoam is used as a soak then shock treatment before changing the oil and spark plugs, and it's always amazing how much crap is blown out the exhaust. It can also be used in the gas for ongoing use at 1-2 oz per gallon. The major oil companies do use additive packages in gasoline we buy at the pump, but data I've seen is that their dosage is a low. You would need to be religious about staying with a brand known to pump with one cleaning package, such as staying with Chevron where their gas has Techron. I don't know about Chevron, Yamaha, or other brands but SeaFoam makes a point to say that at some point (don't remember their number) less than 1 oz/gal, there is no benefit.





For those who have a place called The Container Store nearby, I saw little brown bottles in the one near us. Personally, I fill on the way to work and that night at home will add the SeaFoam to the tank. The 1-2 oz/gal is such a wide range, you don't need to be too accurate. I don't bother adding it when filling away from home.

 

[EricV]

Thanks Checks. Finally some information I understand and can trust. I am still going to get a 2014 piston and rings for the rebuild. Can't justify using the old technology in a 98% new engine.

Talk to the shop. There are a lot of reasons this could be less than optimal. If the piston design is not intended for the rod length of the '12 con rods, you could end up with anything from low compression ratio to interference. It may not be as simply as an updated ring design.

 

[tomatocity]

Talk to the shop. There are a lot of reasons this could be less than optimal. If the piston design is not intended for the rod length of the '12 con rods, you could end up with anything from low compression ratio to interference. It may not be as simply as an updated ring design.

Good information. Were the connecting rods replaced in 2014?

 

[EricV]

Good information. Were the connecting rods replaced in 2014?

'12 con rod -23P-11650-00-00

'14 con rod -23P-11650-00-00

So that would be a no, they are the same p/n. Piston Pins, circlips and crankshaft are all the same p/n's between '12 and '14.

Cylinder heads are different. Might not be significant, or who knows. Note the 2BS prefix on the '14 p/n. Could be as minor as external finish. :question:

'12 - 23P-11101-09-00
'14 - 2BS-11101-09-00

Cylinders have been updated to a revision number on the '12. The '14 has the same revised p/n from the beginning.

I can just about guarantee that Mother Yamaha won't approve putting the '14 pistons and rings in the '12 as a warranty repair. They only do that when the '12 has a revised p/n shared with the later bikes. The '12 has it's own p/n's still for pistons and rings, meaning they don't approve of using them in the older models. Why? Don't know.

On the face of it, it does not appear that a conflict exists to run the '14 pistons in the '12... but the different heads could mean all the difference. I don't think anyone will know for sure until you put the head on with the newer pistons in place and try to rotate the engine. A good mechanic would do that slowly. A bad one would just fire it up and see what happens.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Don't know where I read this, and don't know that it is or isn't true.. I believe the exhaust casting aft of the valve on the 14-15 has been opened fully. The 12-13 were cast in a way where they have the flow was cut out, and reduced in half ,like the final port looked likes like a half moon. More free flowing in the 14-15. Probably parts of the +2 hp they gained. I have seen some casting flash on the 12-13 exhaust ports. I've taken a small file to my head and carefully cleaned and removed all the excesses flash from the port. ( while having the headers off )
Just have JE machine some new pistons, bump up the compresion a point and go have a good time. Lol

 

[yz454]

It was the port shape on the exhaust port .

 

[Checkswrecks]

I was wondering about cam lift and found that the 2012 and 2015 cams do have the same p/n.

 

[Karson]

I did a bunch of research on this "ring Free" stuff and it was 100% positive, so I bit the bullet and bought a quart. I wanted a way to carry it pre-measured when on a trip as I intend to use it every fill up and I found these very high quality 1/2 oz. glass bottle on Amazon for $9/Doz. It adds maybe 75 cents to a fill up, so If it does what they claim, it is well worth it.

Good stuff OldRider - I've heard good things about that at some of the marina's back home. I've been using it since last fall, and at ~$40-50/quart I make sure to get every drop of that 15ML from the glass bottle in the tank! One thing is for sure, it has very little resemblance to any obvious similarities (smell, viscosity, color, etc...) to sea foam or any other fuel additive I've ever used.

Trying to devise a way to make sure I don't make a major OOPS and accidentally drop a vial into the tank. It's smaller than the opening for the pump filler nozzle, so definitely something to keep an eye on. I've got a bunch of these little guys always somewhere on the bike, so I'll make sure I have one in my tankbag I can wrap/loop around the neck of the glass bottle.

 

[tomatocity]

Good stuff OldRider - I've heard good things about that at some of the marina's back home. I've been using it since last fall, and at ~$40-50/quart I make sure to get every drop of that 15ML from the glass bottle in the tank! One thing is for sure, it has very little resemblance to any obvious similarities (smell, viscosity, color, etc...) to sea foam or any other fuel additive I've ever used.

Trying to devise a way to make sure I don't make a major OOPS and accidentally drop a vial into the tank. It's smaller than the opening for the pump filler nozzle, so definitely something to keep an eye on. I've got a bunch of these little guys always somewhere on the bike, so I'll make sure I have one in my tankbag I can wrap/loop around the neck of the glass bottle.

Karson, what made you consider using the Yamalube Ring Free Plus. Did you notice something or just have concerns?

 

[OldRider]

Good stuff OldRider - I've heard good things about that at some of the marina's back home. I've been using it since last fall, and at ~$40-50/quart I make sure to get every drop of that 15ML from the glass bottle in the tank! One thing is for sure, it has very little resemblance to any obvious similarities (smell, viscosity, color, etc...) to sea foam or any other fuel additive I've ever used.

Trying to devise a way to make sure I don't make a major OOPS and accidentally drop a vial into the tank. It's smaller than the opening for the pump filler nozzle, so definitely something to keep an eye on. I've got a bunch of these little guys always somewhere on the bike, so I'll make sure I have one in my tankbag I can wrap/loop around the neck of the glass bottle.

The bottles I got off Amazon are just a little bigger than the filler hole and won't fall in. They're really thick glass. I even dropped one on the floor and it just bounced.

 

[tomatocity]

Today: Heard from the service manager. They discovered the connecting rod bolts were never received ::007:: The connecting rod bolts are back ordered ::007:: They ordered new connecting rods w/bolts ::008:: And had them shipped Next Day Air from Japan ::008:: ::008:: ::008::

Still trying to stay calm and not get in anybodies business 8) ??? :-X :-\ :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim:

 

[Hungry Tiger]

tomatocity: You're being quite the gentleman about this. At least you have the KLR to ride in the interim.

 

[EricV]

Still trying to stay calm and not get in anybodies business 8) ??? :-X :-\ :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim:

BTDT and it's trying at times. Worse in my case, because all the delays were due to the Warranty Rep in MI and not the shop. No one to give a proper yelling to.

On the up side, did a 1200 mile day on the bike yesterday and it was flawless, other than finally noticing that the shop somehow installed one of my headlight bulbs wrong. WTF? They didn't even have a reason to go there for the engine work.

You'll be on the road again soon Tim, hang in there!

 

[tomatocity]

UPDATE 4/23/2015

Stopped by the dealership today. Was invited into the shop by one of the owners. The engine is still out of the Tenere. Cases were split, new crankshaft, new connecting rods + new bolts, cases reconnected, Joe was getting ready to install the new clutch basket and original clutch discs, engine will be installed without the head,... we chatted about parts, pieces, the ES, riding sand, riding Angeles Crest Highway,... the head is being built/repaired by an independent shop, needed new valve guides, could be back at the dealership by Friday/Saturday (closed Sunday-Monday) but probably Tuesday,... When will I get my Tenere... I don't know

 

[snakebitten]

I SWEAR I feel your pain.

In fact, it's been even longer for me.
But you are getting 1 day closer!

 

[jbjke]

I'm assuming you being older has a lot to do with you being so patient because no 25 yr old would be with a race bike in the shop. I do think Yamaha should have stepped up and helped you get into a new '14 or '15 at a very reasonable price due to the lead time that you have had. It'll be such a change riding the tenere after having the KLR out. So much longer rides are now available. Maybe just ride it all the way to Romney, WV for the camp and ride next week. Tell the dealership you need a loaner bike for that trip if they don't have yours done


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[tomatocity]

Got another email from the service manager saying they have not received the head from the machine shop... ho hum deedum deedum !!!

On a positive note... I asked for a quote on a 2015 Super Tenere ES with the 2012 Super Tenere as a trade-in.

 

[Hungry Tiger]

Hopefully she's back by the end if this week. If you do the 600 mi break in, you might not think trade as much ... the new clutch basket smoothness and all. Plus I'm guessing the fully loaded performance of the ES rear is not going to measure up to the custom Ohlin.

 

[tomatocity]

Hopefully she's back by the end if this week. If you do the 600 mi break in, you might not think trade as much ... the new clutch basket smoothness and all. Plus I'm guessing the fully loaded performance of the ES rear is not going to measure up to the custom Ohlin.

Thanks for the encouragement. If I stay with the '12 I need to have the forks rebuilt/upgraded (San Francisco), ECU flashed, install the Akropovic, install the ACD, install PC8 and lighting, and ???

Probably not leaving until Juneish. Continue to make maps (suggestions) and add to the list of places/things to go/see. Too much planning not enough riding ???