why such bad reviews

[SilverBullet]

A local rider had 3 adventure bikes; 2013 Super Tenere, 2013 BMW 1200 GSA and 2014 KTM 1190 Adventure R. Don't ask me why, maybe just because he could. He decided to thin the herd and put the Super Tenere up for sale. When asked why he was selling it he said something very interesting. He said it was a great bike but he wanted to sell only one bike so that was the logical choice. He then said if he could keep only one of those 3 bikes it would have been the Super Tenere. Think about that and it will make sense.

_

 

[oldbear]

Hello to you. [Clipped by CW]

If you read the link in my sig, I was in your exact position nearly a year ago

mechanic

FWIW, I ride with a buddy who is a BMW man (and a darn FINE BMW mechanic!) who rides a '11 R1200GS vs my '13 S10. Frankly on the road there is precious little difference performance wise between the two ('cant comment on the newer "wasserboxer" bikes). He gets about 2 mpg's more than I do if ridden similarly. My S10 has been rock solid reliable, his BMW not so much (a wiring bug that will occasionally turn off the headlight and LEAVE it off for a long amount of time -neither he nor his BMW dealership can find anything wrong, yet the problem recurs every 8 or 9 months. Sometimes lasts for an hour, sometimes for the best part of a day. Can make trips after dark "interesting" ) Good bikes both, but I'm very happy to be on the Yamaha, also I paid a LOT less $ for my new bike than my buddy did for his. Ride one, if you like it, buy it. The heck with the "experts"...these guys take a bike, but a few hundred mmiles on it and pronounce it the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet they never "live" with a bike long enough to give you a real picture of the ownership experience.

 

[snakebitten]

I've posted this on other forums when this question comes up:

If money's no object, you buy the GS. If money is tight, you buy the VStrom.

In the middle, there are 3 bikes: Triumph, KTM, and S10. If you are performance/ street-biased, the Triumph blows the S10's doors in. If you are performance/ dirt-biased, the KTM does.

The S10 is so perfectly balanced that it sits in a no-man's land where everything "beats" it: The BMW on looks/ prestige/ gadgetry; the VStrom on price/ entry-level value; the Triumph on street cred; the KTM on dirt cred... but to gain those advantages over the S10, the other bikes sacrifice some combination of reliability, selling price, features, build spec, and adaptability.

Most of that doesn't come thru on a test ride, tho... but I bet the S10 sells well with people coming off of other bikes in the class. How many guys (besides me) upgraded from a VStrom? Or came from an expensive experience with BMW? Or were tired of break-downs on their KTMs or Triumphs? As much as any ADV bike can be "practical," the S10 is. Practicality is not sexy, tho - and sex sells. Those other bikes are fun to date; the S10 is marriage material.

You have no excuse for not posting more. :

I have heard every angle of this debate over the years. I thought.
But yours is delightfully fresh.

 

[shrekonwheels]

I will say it again, I dumped the Magazines a couple years ago as I got tired of the bias.

Anyhow, I agree Yami dropped the ball, it did not have to Neuter the Tenere as it did, it is almost as if they were afraid someone without a clue would jump on it and get hurt.
We have went the rounds on this before, but another 10 hp would have been magical, hell merely having the bike deliver stock as good as it does with the simple jumper mod would have been stellar.

I liked the dark colors, matte was actually my first preference, it looked frigging awesome, blue was close and what the hell, i like blue and here it is in my garage, I honestly do not need more on the tank, but I am kind of a basic guy and I think the world crosser decals to make it jump a bit.
I think the overall look is amazing, but like anything subjective. I do agree KTM sells bikes with their colors, I saw an 1190 today and damn, it not only looked sharp, but so much more compact than the Tenere. I think the Tenere could be a bit smaller, mind you once its rolling on pavement or on the dirt the size really is not noticeable, but a bit smaller would surely help.


I think where Yami really messed up is in their advertising, not much on it except one boring neutered ad that reminds me of something out of the 50s. "Would you like a DS bike, why try out new SUPER tenere, it will take you wherever you want" Bleh. Get someone on their to beat the piss out of it, even beyond its capability. Lets see some mud, slide around some corners, drag some pegs on the street, SELL THE BIKE!

They should also do like BMW and try their best to get a show with someone riding on a big DS ride. Maybe if they were smart they would push Charlie & Ewan to do their ride up from South America on the Tenere, what a marketing tool that is.

 

[jackass dave]

some very fair and balanced views from all i think ,did not yamaha have nick sanders doing the ride from north to south america i watched it on dvd and it was great ,and when they stripped the bike found nothing wrong in about 50,000kms .
i have allready made up my mind that the s10 will be my next bike (white 1st blue 2nd ), i am going to run the 1150 gs for the summer anfd the harley and then sell them closer to the fall/autaum (uk) where i think they will be cheaper .
so i can now spend time on the forum gaining some info and looking at the bling i can add ,after i have looked at a remap etc .

so thanks guys and look forward to contributing to the forum ,as long as you get my sense of humor

 

[shrekonwheels]

Sell em now and use that extra money woot ::018::

 

[jackass dave]

i am very tempted i will see how it goes once i have gad a test ride ,allso i normally get a xmas bonus from work so i was hoping to hang on untill then and use the extra money for a newer model.

 

[Scouse]

I'm surprised youre selling your GS after buying that tank bag off me a few weeks back ;D Hi Dave Alan here (fatal)

I'm loving my S10 but have had a couple of minor problems, but possibly caused by poor prep/inadequate service by dealer.

Come over to the dark side....

 

[snakebitten]

<snip>

so thanks guys and look forward to contributing to the forum ,as long as you get my sense of humor

No need to worry about that, for the most part. This is a "seasoned" lot. Most of us have had a half a century or more to hone our sense of humor.
We're a bit less rowdy than the other Tenere forum, (which I count many as my Tenere friends.....my rowdy friends, that is) but we do get the joke.

So welcome. And go ahead and take your time, although I hope it just tortures you to come here AND still try to wait. O

 

[Big Blu]

Big Blu [clipped by CW] is just reiterating the official copy of that same goofy press.
And I'm used to that too.

However, anytime weight is referenced in ANY comparison, it pretty much reveals how silly that comparison is going to be.
Yea, ALL those Big Bore ADV bikes are light!
Much lighter!
And it makes a HUGE difference.

Especially that GSA. It's a real feather weight.

And you really need a very light Big ADV bike to start with because you are gonna load it like a pack mule before heading out across country?

Never makes any sense. But they say it with a straight face every time. Hilarious.

No I'm not simply parroting the press. I've commented on my personal experience, ownership of an ST, ownership of a GSA, and a few hours riding a friends KTM 1190 Adventure R.

Weight makes sense to me. Sure you load them up to travel but the end result is a lighter unloaded bike will also be the lighter loaded bike given the cargo is the same, simple really.

From the mfg. sites:

ST- 584 w/6.1 gallon of fuel
GS - 525 w/5.3 gallons of fuel
GSA - 573 w/7.9 gallons of fuel, luggage mounts, alloy skid plate, lower crash bars, upper crash bars, LED aux lights.

I estimate the extras on the GSA would weight 30-40 lbs...... That would make it maybe 50 lbs. lighter then a similarly equip they'd with 1.8 less gallons of fuel.

Sure weight matters, that's why some choose to ride KTM's when the going gets dirty........ don't ya think? ::008::

Paul

 

[snakebitten]

First, I kinda wonder what I wrote that got snipped? LOL

I love ya Big Blu, so it couldn't have been too bad. O


Ok, I didn't type those numbers out, YOU did.
And I DO take the liberty to compare the Tenere to the GSA, rather than the GS, because I can.

Those numbers, regardless of even if they are being fudged a bit, show an 11 pound difference.
Exactly my point.

There are clearly differences between the Big Pig ADV bikes. I don't deny that. But weight hardly applies. Especially, static weight.
How these bikes carry their weight, whether it is naked or loaded down, does matter. And the Tenere actually kicks butt there.
(dirt bikes are another thing. Sure, my DRZ is a bloated pig compared to my EXC. VERY noticeable and it does apply)

I am admittedly a Tenere Ambassador. No hiding that after leaving 4000+ bread crumbs revealing such. But I am also very much a vocal admirer of the GSA.
Very much. So much so that it is THE target for my quest to GSA-ize my Tenere.

But weight is ONE category I didn't start behind on. Silly argument, I say.

Man, what did I say that got snipped? I'm so proud of myself! I'm a bad boy.

 

[shrekonwheels]

Who gives a shit, if the bike fits you, rides in the manner you want personally then ride the damn thing.

If you are racing where 11 lbs makes a difference then it makes sense, if not it is an absurd argument to even bother with.

 

[Big Blu]

First, I kinda wonder what I wrote that got snipped? LOL

I love ya Big Blu, so it couldn't have been too bad. O


Ok, I didn't type those numbers out, YOU did.
And I DO take the liberty to compare the Tenere to the GSA, rather than the GS, because I can.

Those numbers, regardless of even if they are being fudged a bit, show an 11 pound difference.
Exactly my point.

There are clearly differences between the Big Pig ADV bikes. I don't deny that. But weight hardly applies. Especially, static weight.
How these bikes carry their weight, whether it is naked or loaded down, does matter. And the Tenere actually kicks butt there.
(dirt bikes are another thing. Sure, my DRZ is a bloated pig compared to my EXC. VERY noticeable and it does apply)

I am admittedly a Tenere Ambassador. No hiding that after leaving 4000+ bread crumbs revealing such. But I am also very much a vocal admirer of the GSA.
Very much. So much so that it is THE target for my quest to GSA-ize my Tenere.

But weight is ONE category I didn't start behind on. Silly argument, I say.

Man, what did I say that got snipped? I'm so proud of myself! I'm a bad boy.

Sure I posted some numbers those may be the only objective information here. We could talk HP, torque, fueling, electronics, cost, ease of maintenance, reliability, length of warranty, ..

I'm sorry to report your efforts are in vane. A ST can not be successfully GSA-ized.
Mr. Ambassador, help me.................
I don't understand how the ST 'kicks butt' when it comes to 'carrying weight', can you explain?
My GSA seems to have a lower center of gravity and moves about the center of mass more quickly then did my ST.

Paul

 

[snakebitten]

We could talk all those other attributes, but I purposely identified "weight" as a specific area that the Tenere gets nagged on without real world validity.

And I stated my opinions towards that. (By the way, I so much enjoy this debate every thread it comes up. And it wouldn't be a debate if nobody disagreed with me. I genuinely appreciate you obliging me in what could be considered enemy territory. ::008:

I believe you when you say you don't think the Tenere carries it's weight as well as your GSA. But it IS the one attribute that the Tenere has always been credited with even from the same press that nags about the meaningless published "heavier" static weight. The most negative reviews often include the painful admission that it sure doesn't feeeeeel like it's that heavy.

By the way, I actually disagree with THAT statement! I think the Tenere, AND the GSA, AND (believe it or not) The KTM ALL feel like big giant heavy monster bikes when I'm pushing, lifting, turning,..........riding off road or in cross state pack-mule mode.

In fact, even my recently acquired 950 Super Enduro, which is surely recognized as a much more svelte bike than the 3 BIG Pigs that make up this debate, is still a LOT of bike to push, lift, turn, ..........Horrible to pick up. It carries its weight terrible. It's a skyscraper of a bike.

I guess what I just can't put into words eloquently enough is I just ain't buying that someone would swap any of these bikes during a days ride and upon getting on a different one say, "man, this thing is so much lighter. Dropping this one on the next switchback is going to be much easier to pickup"

As for GSA-izing my Tenere, nobody can tell me that it can't be done if I'm the one defining what it means!

 

[Scott Williams]

If RELIABILITY is your primary factor, the S-10 wins, hands down. I live in Central America where Yamaha has dealerships every 100-200 miles. Not one other mfgr. comes close. And they stock S-10 parts, too. Lots of different bikes down here: kawasaki, Ducati, BMW, Harley, (no Honda big bikes), kTM, etc. Sure , others may be faster and lighter. But my 2014 S-10 always gets me home and never suffers "surprise" repairs. The slightly heavier weight allows better traction, better tire adhesion, and more comfort on a long trip. Takes potholes and speed bumps more comfortably, too. I chose this bike over all the others mainly for RELIABILITY, my friend. Sexy is for kids looking to impress other folks....or push your limits.. At 73, my S-10 gives me all the power and comfort I need for reliable 2-up riding without a worry in tbe world.....except for which B & B to stay in for the night. Good luck.
VERY HAPPY 2014 S-10 owner bere,
Scott Williams
Roatan, HN

 

[MNs10]

So you folks who think the magazines are biased against the ST because of another brands advertizing dollars…what do you think they should be saying? “While being less powerful throughout the entire rev range and neutered in the first three gears, we think the slow revving parallel twin is all the power most will ever need so we’re giving it 1st place.” “The suspension, while decent if you’re light and it’s adjustable over a smaller range than others in the class is still pretty good…1st place.” “It’s heavier, with a higher center of gravity but it carries the extra weight so well…1st place.” “The bike is great on the open road and when things get twisty it handles good for a bike with such slow turn in…1st place.” “The ability to switch modes/turn off nannies/adjust the suspensions isn’t as effective as some rivals but it’s more than needed…1st place.” “The maintenance interval is long, thank god, because it sucks when it comes due…but 1st place for the long interval even though it takes more time than others.” “The ST is surprisingly good off road for being the heaviest and may equal some rivals for some riders…1st place for effort.” :'(

What do you think the reviewers are going to say?

 

[shredmeister]

1st question at start of previous post...yes, I "think" there could be a bias. Answer to last question at bottom of post...i could care less about magazine reviews. Got over that along time ago. What matters to me are opinions from "actual" owners. After over 1000 miles on my Tenere, I have to say the majority of opinions are sound. It's a great bike! Can I get an amen?

 

[Derekj]

As has been stated over and over, The BMW is a great machine , first on the tarmac based on general consensus , costs more, breaks more, and is 3rd off road. The KTM also expensive , 1st on the dirt , breaks a bit less than the BMW, 3rd on the tarmac. ST, 2nd on the tarmac, 2nd on the dirt, cheapest , most reliable , lowest cost of ownership and maintenance and 1st overall . The loyalty to the Tenere is , in my opinion , the highest and it just happens to be the Utility Knife of all Motorcycles. Sometimes being the Jack of all trades instead of the Master , has its Merit.

 

[Checkswrecks]

First, I kinda wonder what I wrote that got snipped? LOL
I love ya Big Blu, so it couldn't have been too bad. O

I rather like our debates and there sure is no problem with stating facts or your own thoughts and feelings. Watching our forum family spar can be entertaining. The line is where comments may no longer be taken in a positive way and the symptom is usually when people take something too personally or appear to strike out, whether intended or not.


Your trimmed phrase was just a response to a potentially demeaning sentence (probably not even intended to be that way) and I think I know you well enough to know you meant no harm. But emotions were starting to enter and after several posts, yet another person joined in with a definite bitter shot. We can't see body language here and it was either remove all the comments or leave a mess by trimming one or two. So don't take it personal and this way works easier all around. The trimming shears come out when telling others what their opinion should be, or in your case to not leave something hanging.


As AvGeek posted last year:

. . . we will be paying closer attention to posts, and will remove those which, in our interpretation, violate the rules. . . .

We know most of the members here act like the adults we expect everyone to be, and contribute to the knowledge and enjoyment of our bikes. Our goal is not to stifle debate or discussion, but rather to ensure that everyone who posts can do so without the threat of personal attacks, and to keep the personality of this community positive.

btw - Before anybody thinks this is heavy handed, start to watch how much more deleting and trimming goes on unannounced at the big forum. You'll suddenly realize that entire exchanges are gone, and heaven-forbid you mention this or any other forum in the big one. Here, we hardly ever give time-outs and frequently note when editing does happen.


So much for tonight's peek behind the curtain. Back to our regularly scheduled and never-ending debate.
::017::

 

[shrekonwheels]

So you folks who think the magazines are biased against the ST because of another brands advertizing dollars…what do you think they should be saying? “While being less powerful throughout the entire rev range and neutered in the first three gears, we think the slow revving parallel twin is all the power most will ever need so we’re giving it 1st place.” “The suspension, while decent if you’re light and it’s adjustable over a smaller range than others in the class is still pretty good…1st place.” “It’s heavier, with a higher center of gravity but it carries the extra weight so well…1st place.” “The bike is great on the open road and when things get twisty it handles good for a bike with such slow turn in…1st place.” “The ability to switch modes/turn off nannies/adjust the suspensions isn’t as effective as some rivals but it’s more than needed…1st place.” “The maintenance interval is long, thank god, because it sucks when it comes due…but 1st place for the long interval even though it takes more time than others.” “The ST is surprisingly good off road for being the heaviest and may equal some rivals for some riders…1st place for effort.” :'(

What do you think the reviewers are going to say?

Magazines are always biased to the Euro Brands, as I keep saying that is why I canceled my subscriptions years ago. I got tired of them having a shootout, the Euro bike getting its ass handed to them the entire time, but it "Looked cool, and felt better" so it won, nonsense.

There was also a video review with had the Tenere unfortunately get its sump broken early on. It was deemed to be a unworthy machine, but then the BMW kept having problems and "That was ok"
Bias nonsense

As with others on here, I do by no means feel the Tenere is the best bike in any one area, but it certainly is the bike which fits me for power, price, touring and off road, putting those all together in a package which is amazing IMO.


Could it change more in the future? Yup and I am sure it will.

However as to address you statement, I do not understand it at all. The Tenere has plenty of useable power, it is not a track bike, nor was ever meant to be, so the mass "Hey I could not power wheelie" attitude is idiotic IMO.

The center of gravity is low, very low and honestly far easier to ride than most enduros I have been on, so again, I fail to understand your point.

It is perfectly comfy and roomy for two people with room to spare, seems that should be a proper consideration.

Has to be affordable, I mean the contest should be realistic, should it not?

And last, an adventure bike HAS to be dependable, which it hands down spanks the living shit out of its competition, so yea, in that regard as I blogged about, it easily takes number one.