Why in God's name would anyone spend a penny at REI?

[Epping]

We need to be selective and to also be informed before making rash decisions about who we support & what comments we make. Australia, as with other developed countries has its share of troubles with respect to the Greenies. While well meaning in some areas, knee jerk & hysterical submissions have resulted in many areas closed off to recreational bikes and horses in Australia. A small quote from the Snowy Mountains Bush Users Group is similar to many other groups with concerns:

Part of the problem: "The 2006 Plan of Management for KNP (Kosciuszko National Park)

This Plan introduced further horse riding exclusion areas. When added to existing wilderness zonings (which prohibit horse riding) riders are now prohibited from 60% of KNP. In addition, the inaccessibility of the terrain and the location of vehicle based horse camps results in riders having practical access to less than 3% of KNP."

Additional problems:

". Since the withdrawal of grazing (in the Snowy Mountains High Country) in 1972, after 135 years, we have lost the management practices initiated by the Aborigines and adopted by the European pastoralists. With controlled grazing and regular cool burning the native grasses were plentiful and healthy and there was an abundance of native fauna and flora.

(This) was a classic case of conservative land management for sustainable economic benefit.

Significant improvements are needed in NPWS land management skills in relation to:

Bushfire prevention and containment through fuel load reduction and maintenance of fire trails and fire breaks. We call for the reintroduction of controlled cattle grazing in appropriate areas.

Predator feral animals need more NPWS commitment for eradication, especially wild dogs,cats and pigs.

Weeds are proliferating once pristine plains and frost hollows that had been expertly managed by the graziers under their grazing leases. Blackberry’s are out of control, choking the streams and gullies. Woody weeds are closing the under-storey of the timbered ranges. NPWS are losing the battle."

::009::

 

[Checkswrecks]

To the original question about why anybody would shop at an REI, my answer is that I have more than one close by, some of their stuff is top rate, and if I wait for one of their sales, the prices for the quality are really hard to beat.

People miss how much of a difference each store has in personality and it's important to the discussion, because the bulk of REI giving is intentionally kept local. We have one near here in a very liberal DC suburb with a staff of extremists who wouldn't dream of using make-up or eating meat. But most stores seem to be staffed by very normal people who would be interchangeable with any generic clothing store. And we have one where the guys seem to be running their own KLR club.

I actually looked into this after debating with a friend about how radical I thought that REI was. I sounded like 20Valve & Houndsman and have kind of tempered my thoughts. What I learned is that while REI corporate does list Sierra Club as one that they support, that was just one of 300+ organizations they supported last year and the company works to keep the majority of their contributions local.

For the most part REI is very focused in both where and HOW they provide support. Here in the DC/Balt area their dollars largely go to supporting their own volunteer activities such as trail work. We have the Appalachian Trail and some others and I've personally seen them do good work. When they have given to Sierra Club, they've target specific programs to fund; which here is largely getting inner city kid trips to hike and camp.

I also learned that they do have a lobbying firm but try to leverage (again) most of their lobbying dollars in teaming with the Outdoor Industry Association, which is HUGE. So they not only are sponsors for specific Sierra Club activities, but through OIA they also team with organizations like America Bikes, American Fly Fishing Trade Association, American Recreation Coalition, American Sportfishing Association, Motorcycle Industry Council, National Marine Manufacturers Association, Recreation Vehicle Industry Association, Recreational Boating and Fishing Foundation, etc. Sierra Club is fiercely opposed to some of those!

My bottom line was asking are they greener than most people here? Definitely. But they are also not on the other fringe, either.

 

[houndman]

To the original question about why anybody would shop at an REI, my answer is that I have more than one close by, some of their stuff is top rate, and if I wait for one of their sales, the prices for the quality are really hard to beat.

People miss how much of a difference each store has in personality and it's important to the discussion, because the bulk of REI giving is intentionally kept local. We have one near here in a very liberal DC suburb with a staff of extremists who wouldn't dream of using make-up or eating meat. But most stores seem to be staffed by very normal people who would be interchangeable with any generic clothing store. And we have one where the guys seem to be running their own KLR club.

I actually looked into this after debating with a friend about how radical I thought that REI was. I sounded like 20Valve & Houndsman and have kind of tempered my thoughts. What I learned is that while REI corporate does list Sierra Club as one that they support, that was just one of 300+ organizations they supported last year and the company works to keep the majority of their contributions local.

For the most part REI is very focused in both where and HOW they provide support. Here in the DC/Balt area their dollars largely go to supporting their own volunteer activities such as trail work. We have the Appalachian Trail and some others and I've personally seen them do good work. When they have given to Sierra Club, they've target specific programs to fund; which here is largely getting inner city kid trips to hike and camp.

I also learned that they do have a lobbying firm but try to leverage (again) most of their lobbying dollars in teaming with the Outdoor Industry Association, which is HUGE. So they not only are sponsors for specific Sierra Club activities, but through OIA they also team with organizations like America Bikes, American Fly Fishing Trade Association, American Recreation Coalition, American Sportfishing Association, Motorcycle Industry Council, National Marine Manufacturers Association, Recreation Vehicle Industry Association, Recreational Boating and Fishing Foundation, etc. Sierra Club is fiercely opposed to some of those!

My bottom line was asking are they greener than most people here? Definitely. But they are also not on the other fringe, either.

Checkswrecks, it is weak to quote how you used to "sound" like me and another member, and how you have tempered your thoughts, own your own opinion. I dont sit on any fence or in the "middle" on the issues of public land use. Here in California, where American off road riding is like NASCAR in the south, extremist are running people out of room to enjoy their lives because they want to make us conform to what they want us to do. Without much compromise. Responsible public land users need not suffer because of this. And responsible land users far outnumber irresponsible users. I dont know just how radical REI is, but putting in for some for some projects that they obviously are going to support like kids hikiing etc. is great, but they also support the Sierra Club and other far left organizations whose idea is to make us conform to their idea without compromise. REI does not on the other hand, support local or state groups here, Like CORVA( Ca Off Road Vehicle) that even glimpse of opposition to the left wing outfits. Shop away at REI, none of my business, but when that well maintained motorized trail you enjoy back there is shut down, maybe one could make up their mind about what big business like REI is doing supporting this. It is REAL here in California, trails and riding areas shut down for NO reason other than the lobbying bucks of the Sierra Club and other far left groups.

 

[20valves]

.....trails and riding areas shut down for NO reason other than the lobbying bucks of the Sierra Club and other far left groups.

+1 ::008::

 

[Yamaguy55]

Some of you may remember the "Phantom Duck Of the Desert" from the seventies. Prior to that little skirmish, I had no opinion on the Sierra Club. I have one now. The sad thing about just about all of the "environmental movement" (With the emphasis on "mental" and "movement") is that for the most part, those that were once rational organizations have long since been wholly hijacked by the extreme end of their base, so rational thought seldom applies to anything they do. The concept has a lot in common with the new NYC "anti-obese no large sweet drink policy" : we can legislate human nature right off the planet. "Do it my way! I'm Right!" is fine, if you are. But that is seldom true.

From entirely my point of view, supporting the Sierra Club in any way, even indirectly, and being an off road rider at any level is similar to being a hunter and supporting the HSUS and PETA: you're fighting yourself.

We can all choose how to fight ourselves. For me, I do not support any organization that I'm aware of that backs certain agendas. Even the Kardashians finally stopped being PETA supporters. You would think that was a match made in heaven.

By the way: I'm not selling this, so there's no need to buy it. 8)

 

[20valves]

Some of you may remember the "Phantom Duck Of the Desert" from the seventies.

I do remember Super Hunky at Dirt Bike mag reporting on that, I was a kid then and beginning to understand the world was a weird place. I think they shut down almost all desert racing allegedly due to the presence of some lizard. They didn't produce the lizard, only what they thought was its poop or some silly shit like that.

I don't know a single dirt biker that doesn't want to preserve and maintain where they ride. They are the volunteers who pick up litter and manage the trails for erosion, trail rotation, etc. Usually very accommodating toward other uses. Quad riders less so I'm afraid, at least where I live.

 

[JHKolb]

Seems like an un-winable argument either way. I am a strong believer in buying products 'Made in USA', should I then not ride an adventure bike because they are ALL made outside the US? Has anyone really done research into every company that makes every product you buy and use to make sure their corporate agenda matches wholly with yours - not likely I would guess.

I am an REI member, and I do use my right to vote each year for the REI Board members and any other items open for member vote. I like REI, I like Hiking, Kayaking, Biking AND riding a Japanese made Motorcycle!

 

[Yamaguy55]

I do remember Super Hunky at Dirt Bike mag reporting on that, I was a kid then and beginning to understand the world was a weird place. I think they shut down almost all desert racing allegedly due to the presence of some lizard. They didn't produce the lizard, only what they thought was its poop or some silly shit like that.


I don't know a single dirt biker that doesn't want to preserve and maintain where they ride. They are the volunteers who pick up litter and manage the trails for erosion, trail rotation, etc. Usually very accommodating toward other uses. Quad riders less so I'm afraid, at least where I live.

The Sierra Club successfully shut down the Barstow to Vegas race, run on existing two track, while cruising the desert in their personal 4WD vehicles to look at wildlife. Specifically, the "blunt nosed lizard" which I'm sure was quite legit, but driving around cross country while shutting down use of an existing road is horse poo, to put it mildly. More do as I say, not as I do stuff.

It is that way here as well. Most of the 4 wheeler and jeep crowd here have what I call the "gravel pit mentality" where they spin tires, trash the place, leave, then find it posted next time. Lucky us.
PA trail Riders Association maintains the trails over where I occasionally ride on my WR250R, and have an event planned the same weekend as the Altrider event in June, in essentially the same place. I don't plan to go to either, as it is local to me and I prefer uncrowded rides, but the PATRA crowd does a nice job of opening and maintaining trails over there and should be commended for their good work. Never once have I seen any work done by the ATV/jeep crowd, but have seen the results of them being somewhere. Just saying'.....

 

[dcstrom]

I do remember Super Hunky at Dirt Bike mag reporting on that, I was a kid then and beginning to understand the world was a weird place. I think they shut down almost all desert racing allegedly due to the presence of some lizard. They didn't produce the lizard, only what they thought was its poop or some silly shit like that.

It's not easy to "produce the lizard" if it's almost extinct. As for the poop... there are scientists who can tell one kind of shit from another, what make you so sure it's a BS story? (or an LS story, even). Believe it or not, there is almost always a scientific basis for this stuff. You make out the Sierra Club and others just make stuff up because they have something against motorized recreational vehicles. Guess what - they DO (have something against them)! Because there is overwhelming evidence that they contribute to ecosystem disruption that certain species cannot tolerate. These are usually small lizards, frogs, fish or insects. They may be insignificant to you but they often play a critical role in the ecosystem. In some cases they are "cornerstone species" whose absence would change the whole nature of the ecosytem.

Seems like what you're saying about this lizard... Ok, it's ALMOST extinct, now let's make sure of it!

 

[Checkswrecks]

First off, I lived in LA for a long time, worked in Palmdale, was racing in the desert probably before some of you were riding, still visit somewhat regularly, and know the OHV issues pretty darned well.


Second, I never denied that Sierra Club lobbies against OHV issues. Duh, it's because the organization is just as focused on eco-lobbying, as the NRA is on gun rights. (fwiw, I'm an NRA member & shoot IDPA) No, I don't contribute to the Sierra Club.


My point was/is that REI is NOT the Sierra Club. The company contributes to more than 300 organizations, of which Sierra Club happens to be ONE.


The fact is that REI gives the vast majority of it's outreach money to local trail maintenance, kids outdoor programs, and similar activities. It's good marketing and good for their own business growth. Further, they have better business practices than the sweat shops which probably made most of the clothing that we as a group are wearing. I've seen those in Africa and Asia, too.



So, yes, you will recognize me when I'm riding long distance and motorcycle camping, because I probably will have at least some REI clothes.

 

[Bullett]

I've been a member of REI since the 1980's. I hike and I used to backpack and ride a mountain bike. I also ride motorcycles. ??? Oh, and I'm a member of the Sierra Club.

I generally agree with REI and the Sierra Club that the wild places in this world should be preserved for future generations.

REI runs good stores and has good customer service. They recently refunded the full purchase price for 2 pair of back country skis (purchased 10 years ago) that delaminated while stored in our basement.

 

[AVGeek]

I call BS on the "scientific" basis for most species listings. The way many Eco-organizations work is to find some organism that has little to no information, then claim that it is threatened or endangered. Since the information on said specie is sparse to non-existent, the Fish and Wildlife service usually lists the organism under the Endangered Species Act. Don't believe me? Do a Google search for "Pierson's Milk Veitch". This was the plant that was listed in 1998, and sued over in 2000, which resulted in the closure of over 50,000 acres at the Imperial Sand Dunes. Since then, the American Sand Association hired a botanist to study the plant for over 7 years, during which time the scientific evidence indicates that rainfall is the major contributor to the plant's life cycle, and that the seed bank was healthy with something close to 2 million seeds throughout the habitat. In addition, it was reminded that the vast majority of the area closed in 2000 was not suitable PMV habitat. The ASA sued the FWS to delist the plant, and even thought he study was peer reviewed, and shows a healthy, sustainable plant population in the most popular OHV area in the country, the FWS fused to delist PMV. The "temporary" closures are still in effect, and we are still waiting for a revised Recreation Area Management Plan to be released, which should have been implemented 2 years ago.

No, the root issue is the ESA, and how easy it is to get a specie listed, and how impossible it is to get one delisted. In addition, the ESA has failed in its primary goal of recovering species, and is currently being reviewed in Congress. Until the ESA is reformed the Eco-organizations will have plenty of tools to close down public lands.

 

[dcstrom]

No, the root issue is the ESA, and how easy it is to get a specie listed, and how impossible it is to get one delisted. In addition, the ESA has failed in its primary goal of recovering species, and is currently being reviewed in Congress. Until the ESA is reformed the Eco-organizations will have plenty of tools to close down public lands.

As in any bureaucratic (and/or political) process, there are things that could be done better. That doesn't mean the studies and listings shouldn't have happened in the first place. There are many, many example of species going extinct before we even learn much about them. When a new, rare species is found that we have little knowledge of, it's common sense to err on the side of caution until we know more about it.

"Although the extinction of various species is a natural phenomenon, the rate of extinction occurring in today's world is exceptional -- as many as 100 to1,000 times greater than normal." Dr. Donald A. Levin said in the January-February issue of American Scientist magazine.

 

[Yamaguy55]

I agree with the protection of endangered species, conservation of wild places, and respect for the planet I live on. None of my motorcycles have any mods to their emissions, fueling, catalytic converters or noise suppression.

What I don't agree with is making sure someone else doesn't do something, then essentially doing the exact same thing yourself, but because you're doing it for (fill in the blank here) reasons, it's ok. You're special, the rest of us dolts can do without. Here's your koolaide laddie, drink up.

The environmental movement has long since been hijacked by self righteous nit-wits that feel anything they do or say is fine, as long as the rest of us toe the line like good little subjects, fund their projects, and buy their versions of reality. Not to mention drinking the koolaide. Which is quite sad, as it has probably set back constructive, effective solutions where everyone gets something and we can all live with the results. Win-wins in this area basically don't exist. Look at everything from power generation to logging to light bulbs: one extreme or the other. Gimme a break: championing any form of fluorescent bulbs while not pushing for effective LEDs that solve most, if not all of the complaints about all other forms of lighting from hazmat to power consumption? Unplugging your computer every time you leave the house to save power? Really: what size is your server farm?

So anytime I engage a skeptic about any subject that might involve "global warming/environment/endangered species," the first reaction that I get is the so-called experts are a pack of mad dog kooks that will falsify tests and do anything to have their way. They MAY want to police their own ranks if they wish to be believed and accepted as valid, concerned, and serious people.

Sadly, as stated before.

 

[houndman]

Anyone been riding in Clear Creek OHV area lately? Asbestos? Really? What other part of the land is the govt. gonna tell us that we cant enjoy because of some study? Not one person has been known to be sick. The Folks that "govern" that area are in study to find out what "real threats" are there. But we'll shut it down for now. No one telling me that the freeway is off limits because it is dangerous to merely be there driving. Why the selective issues? Been determined that the opposition is the likes of Sierra Club. Their money backs this kind of shit. Why does REI find it necessary to put money into the likes of Sierra Club? A sporting goods chain? Why? The hypocrisy just floors me. It's like some friends whose family that have been farming the same land since the 1870's, getting pulled off their tractors and cited for screwing around with the kangaroo rat, the opposition was always some environmental group winning an issue of endangerment without real scientific proof.. Yet when a big water reservior was proposed on their land things magically were ok now. Since the water co. seemed to magically get their way and drown how many rats? Who knows. But those rats sure filled the coffers of a lot of environmental groups.( Diamond Valley Res.) This is from the folks who still own what remains of that land after many lawsuits. Now there are houses everywhere having been built in the French Valley. There are many sporting goods stores all over and there is not many of them would be cited in a debate like this. REI is one that is. Thankfully we all have a choice now. I ride my motorcycle only on marked trails or approved offraod areas. I am only laying out facts, based on real events. Like I said I put my money where my beliefs and actions are. I don't feed an animal that may bite my hand off from afar. And by the way, the Kangaroo rats are still there and doing fine.

 

[nondairycreamer]

I'll pay good money to anyone that can transplant an endangered species to the stream and watershed that feeds my water well. As I write there are loggers working 18 hours a day, 7days a week, taking all they can off the mountain top to be followed by a strip mine (mountain top removal) that will run for 3 to 5 years. All within 500 feet of my house. High levels of dust, blasting that will crack foundations and walls, 24 hour noise (ever listened to a rock drill work it's way 140 feet into rock?), ruined roads by overloaded, mud dropping coal trucks (and oils washed out the rear onto the roads during rains), pavement broken and deformed to necessitate an enduro to pass over. And my family will be forced to hook up to a water system that is unreliable and of poor quality. This is going on all over Appalachia and where is the Sierra Club? Cowering in Kalifornicate. There is no money base for them here. The only organization that claims to offer any resistance only offered me a newsletter that seemed to be mostly about asking for money.

And off road 4-wheelers run late into the night on the highway with straight pipes, delivering pills I think, an epidemic here. Most of the forest areas in the Daniel Boone National Forest that have had closures are ruined by 4-wheelers, jeeps, etc. Not so much dirt bikes because those require some skill to get through the woods. Any fool can turn a hillside into a graveyard of erosion and this happens everywhere they are allowed to go. The clowns in government spend millions flying helicopters looking for pot plants in the forests (and have never arrested anyone-I was told this by a local prosecutor, only grab the pot and fly out) yet Kentucky has not had an increase in state police in over twenty years which is why the 4-wheelers run wild in the wrong lane at all hours, often with two or three kids, no helmets, and yes, inbreds holding a child of less than one year in one arm (no protection other than a diaper), steering with one hand, cigarette dangling from lips that likely reek of alcohol. The 4 wheelers serve as transportation for losers that lost their license for driving intoxicated.

And my last ride to the Smokey Mountains was ruined by loud pipes saving lives. Over the years as those asswipes have proliferated I've noticed fewer older people, fewer young kids and no animals along the roadside which used to be common. I wrote the US Forestry SouthEast head jackass in Atlanta about the pipes, many of which have no spark arrestors and he wrote back saying there was nothing he could do. Another shoe polisher. It seems that wherever I look there are only people doing what suits them, what profits them and fuck the world. Really depressing.

As for REI, I was a member in the '70's, lured by the dividend and how much it could save me. I actually bought most of my gear at a small indy shop in Lexington and dropped REI forever. No real savings. I shop only locally owned, independent stores now. And USA made when possible.

Rant off.

 

[Racesbikes]

Cant everyone just get along! All outdoor sporting enthusiast need to be able to share the areas we have. Sure seclusion for certain groups is nice but not always feasible. And there is nothing wrong with trying to have pristine areas!!!

 

[dcstrom]

I'll pay good money to anyone that can transplant an endangered species to the stream and watershed that feeds my water well. As I write there are loggers working 18 hours a day, 7days a week, taking all they can off the mountain top to be followed by a strip mine (mountain top removal) that will run for 3 to 5 years. All within 500 feet of my house. High levels of dust, blasting that will crack foundations and walls, 24 hour noise (ever listened to a rock drill work it's way 140 feet into rock?), ruined roads by overloaded, mud dropping coal trucks (and oils washed out the rear onto the roads during rains), pavement broken and deformed to necessitate an enduro to pass over. And my family will be forced to hook up to a water system that is unreliable and of poor quality. This is going on all over Appalachia and where is the Sierra Club? Cowering in Kalifornicate. There is no money base for them here. The only organization that claims to offer any resistance only offered me a newsletter that seemed to be mostly about asking for money.

Mate, you're in luck! (if you can call it that...)

CHARLESTON, W.V.— The Center for Biological Diversity filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service today for the agency’s failure to make a listing decision on a petition to protect the Big Sandy crayfish under the Endangered Species Act. The crayfish has been lost from up to 70 percent of its range because of water pollution from mountaintop-removal coal mining. It is nearly gone from West Virginia and has lost close to half of its range in Kentucky and Virginia.

“The Big Sandy crayfish is only found in Appalachia, where mountaintop removal and other sources of pollution are driving it extinct,” said Tierra Curry, a Center biologist and a native of southeastern Kentucky, where the crayfish is found. “Mountaintop-removal coal mining is ruining the water — both for wildlife and for people. If we protect streams for crayfish, we’ll also be protecting people.”

I know things are really tough economically and socially in Appalachia, and coal is important for the economy and employment. But there is a big price to pay in environmental degradation, and as you point out, terrible effects on infrastructure and quality-of-life for people in the area.

If you restore the streams, you restore the Big Sandy Crayfish, the knock-on effect is considerable.

Crayfish are also known as crawdads, crawfish, mudbugs and freshwater lobsters. They’re considered to be a keystone animal because the holes they dig create habitat used by more than 400 other species, including bass, catfish, frogs and small mammals. Crayfish keep streams cleaner by eating decaying plants and animals, and they are eaten in turn by fish, giant salamanders and raccoons, making them an important link in the food chain. Their burrowing activity helps maintain healthy soil by transferring nutrients between soil layers.

The Center for Biological Diversity is often supported by the Sierra Club in bringing law suits to save endangered species - though it's not clear if they are involved in this case.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/big-sandy-crayfish-05-30-2012.html

I have to thank AVGEEK for helping me find them - I searched for "Pierson's Milk Veitch" as he suggested, and Center for Biological Diversity was the group that took the action that protected the veitch in 2000. (that battle is ongoing - http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/plants/Peirsons_milk_vetch/action_timeline.html)

 

[Checkswrecks]

I'll pay good money to anyone that can transplant an endangered species to the stream and watershed that feeds my water well. As I write there are loggers working 18 hours a day, 7days a week, taking all they can off the mountain top to be followed by a strip mine (mountain top removal) that will run for 3 to 5 years. All within 500 feet of my house. High levels of dust, blasting that will crack foundations and walls, 24 hour noise (ever listened to a rock drill work it's way 140 feet into rock?), ruined roads by overloaded, mud dropping coal trucks (and oils washed out the rear onto the roads during rains), pavement broken and deformed to necessitate an enduro to pass over. And my family will be forced to hook up to a water system that is unreliable and of poor quality. This is going on all over Appalachia and where is the Sierra Club? Cowering in Kalifornicate. There is no money base for them here. The only organization that claims to offer any resistance only offered me a newsletter that seemed to be mostly about asking for money.

And off road 4-wheelers run late into the night on the highway with straight pipes, delivering pills I think, an epidemic here. Most of the forest areas in the Daniel Boone National Forest that have had closures are ruined by 4-wheelers, jeeps, etc. Not so much dirt bikes because those require some skill to get through the woods. Any fool can turn a hillside into a graveyard of erosion and this happens everywhere they are allowed to go. The clowns in government spend millions flying helicopters looking for pot plants in the forests (and have never arrested anyone-I was told this by a local prosecutor, only grab the pot and fly out) yet Kentucky has not had an increase in state police in over twenty years which is why the 4-wheelers run wild in the wrong lane at all hours, often with two or three kids, no helmets, and yes, inbreds holding a child of less than one year in one arm (no protection other than a diaper), steering with one hand, cigarette dangling from lips that likely reek of alcohol. The 4 wheelers serve as transportation for losers that lost their license for driving intoxicated.

And my last ride to the Smokey Mountains was ruined by loud pipes saving lives. Over the years as those asswipes have proliferated I've noticed fewer older people, fewer young kids and no animals along the roadside which used to be common. I wrote the US Forestry SouthEast head jackass in Atlanta about the pipes, many of which have no spark arrestors and he wrote back saying there was nothing he could do. Another shoe polisher. It seems that wherever I look there are only people doing what suits them, what profits them and fuck the world. Really depressing.

As for REI, I was a member in the '70's, lured by the dividend and how much it could save me. I actually bought most of my gear at a small indy shop in Lexington and dropped REI forever. No real savings. I shop only locally owned, independent stores now. And USA made when possible.

Rant off.

Feel your pain, having grown up right over the hill from a strip mine in Ohio. I didn't want to end up on my neighbor's New Philly concrete construction crew and split when I was 17, right after being an early high school gradee-at. When the strip mining is done, the companies at least now have to grade it and start something growing.


The one I grew up next to was abandoned and I go by yearly when visiting my folks graves. After years of the strip mine polluting ground water, becoming a collection for abandoned cars, etc, the horrible nasty US of A Gummint EPA that everybody wants to curse was the one organization that came, paid, and fixed the shit. They removed material, leveled much of it, and you can now barely pick out the shape in aerial photos. Current residents say it's no longer a problem.


Of course that doesn't help you at this point.

 

[20valves]

As I write there are loggers working 18 hours a day, 7days a week, taking all they can off the mountain top to be followed by a strip mine (mountain top removal) that will run for 3 to 5 years. All within 500 feet of my house. High levels of dust, blasting that will crack foundations and walls.....

You should be able to recover damages if all this is going on. That's a real encroachment on your quiet enjoyment of your property if not actual physical damage to it. If the mining operation began after you had already established your home and you had no knowledge of it, you should be able to obtain some kind of relief. I work in oil and gas and we pay damages for everything we do. We also clean up after ourselves whether we find anything or not. We pay surface rentals, crop damages, etc. I'm not familiar with the details of hard mineral mining law but the situation you described would pretty much intolerable to a reasonable person. Has the mining company even contacted you about this?

Oh, 10/4 on Sierra Club. Money and power are the species they care most about so you'll not likely see them in your situation.