Weapons - What you have (NOT a political discussion)
- Thread starter Checkswrecks
- Start date
Sorry guys.
I would've rather joined the discussion but it was getting away from the #1 post & rules are rulez.
To bring things back on topic, been thinking about getting a Hellcat or M&P Shield Plus. (P365 is just too small.)
I'm familiar and comfortable with the Hellcat style ambidextrous thumb safety but never used the Shield Plus version, so am curious if anybody has a Shield Plus with it and can relate any good or bad. (Yes, I plan to rent each for an hour to really figure this out.)
Hellcat has it on both sides:
M&P has a smaller tab and only on left:
For context, I teach firefighters at some rough inner city places, go to some remote VFD houses, and occasionally carry cash. I also parking lot camp in the Transit van on trips.
I personally believe in having a manual safety for EDC (with practice to muscle memory), so please let's not get into arguments for and against them, how Glocks don't have them, etc.
Thanks
I would've rather joined the discussion but it was getting away from the #1 post & rules are rulez.
To bring things back on topic, been thinking about getting a Hellcat or M&P Shield Plus. (P365 is just too small.)
I'm familiar and comfortable with the Hellcat style ambidextrous thumb safety but never used the Shield Plus version, so am curious if anybody has a Shield Plus with it and can relate any good or bad. (Yes, I plan to rent each for an hour to really figure this out.)
Hellcat has it on both sides:
M&P has a smaller tab and only on left:
For context, I teach firefighters at some rough inner city places, go to some remote VFD houses, and occasionally carry cash. I also parking lot camp in the Transit van on trips.
I personally believe in having a manual safety for EDC (with practice to muscle memory), so please let's not get into arguments for and against them, how Glocks don't have them, etc.
Thanks
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On a related note, the local gun peddler has a used Hellcat in tan for a good price. Looks like somebody put it in a drawer as there is virtually no indication of use.
I've always had stainless or black weapons but am thinking that maybe the tan might make it harder to notice the thing under a shirt (less contrast than black on skin).
Any thoughts on black vs tan for EDC?
I've always had stainless or black weapons but am thinking that maybe the tan might make it harder to notice the thing under a shirt (less contrast than black on skin).
Any thoughts on black vs tan for EDC?
thughes317
Well-Known Member
Take a peek at this if you get a chance, I'm really interested in opinions on it. Looks to be same league as Hellcat and P365 but a lot more gun and accessories for the price. Haven't seen one in person yet but may make a trip to Buds to check it out soon.
www.canikusa.com
METE MC9
METE MC9 Team Canik is coming into 2023 with the goal of giving the consumer exactly what they have asked for! The next step in meeting this challenge has now been checked with the introduction of the Canik Mete MC9. The new micro compact pistol has been
www.canikusa.com
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
From 1990 until about 2004 this is what I carried every day:
I carry a Glock 26 now. It's great for concealability, and capacity in a small package, and it has Super Tenere-like reliability, but honestly, that 39-2 with it's ancient technology and it's 8 round magazine and external safety and old school hammer fired action still feels better in my hand than the way more modern Beretta or Taurus or Glock that I've carried since I retired the old veteran. I took it out of its case tonight to take that photo, and as soon as I picked it up, it was like "oh yeah, that's what a pistol is supposed to feel like".
I carry a Glock 26 now. It's great for concealability, and capacity in a small package, and it has Super Tenere-like reliability, but honestly, that 39-2 with it's ancient technology and it's 8 round magazine and external safety and old school hammer fired action still feels better in my hand than the way more modern Beretta or Taurus or Glock that I've carried since I retired the old veteran. I took it out of its case tonight to take that photo, and as soon as I picked it up, it was like "oh yeah, that's what a pistol is supposed to feel like".
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
I do kind of miss the design qualities of old firearms like the 39-2; just from an aesthetic perspective, the lines of guns like this are just visually pleasing. So many handguns today look like they were built by a precocious 10 year old with Lego bricks. I know that beauty is subjective, but both my Glock and my Taurus are ugly firearms. There's definitely an elegance in the simple lines of something like a classic .45, or Hi-Power, or a Walther PP, that firearms like the M&P Shield in Checkswrecks' post just don't possess. It may be a very fine firearm (I've always heard good things about them), but the modern design style in the polymer framed striker fired pistols definitely epitomizes form follows function.
A 12 or 15 round magazine in something that small?Take a peek at this if you get a chance, I'm really interested in opinions on it. Looks to be same league as Hellcat and P365 but a lot more gun and accessories for the price. Haven't seen one in person yet but may make a trip to Buds to check it out soon.
METE MC9
METE MC9 Team Canik is coming into 2023 with the goal of giving the consumer exactly what they have asked for! The next step in meeting this challenge has now been checked with the introduction of the Canik Mete MC9. The new micro compact pistol has been
That’s incredible!
I’d certainly have it as a concealed carry (if I could)
My opinion would be the S&W. I haven't used, or even held, the Shield Plus, but I've been carrying a "regular" Shield PC every day for over 7 years. My wife has a Shield EZ PC, which is another option you might want to look at. Due to the similarity of mine and hers, and the M&P 9mm full sized my kid had, I have to assume that the Plus would be of equal quality. Given the choice between the Hellcat and Shield Plus, it would be the S&W without question or hesitation. The entire M&P line has the 1911 grip angle. In my opinion, John Moses got it right on his second attempt with the 1911. (his 1903 didn't have the same grip angle)
I've also started changing my mind on my EDC caliber. I've always been a subscriber to having the biggest rock in the fight. But after looking at penetration depths of the big rocks, it has me concerned. You are responsible for everything that your bullet touches. If it goes through the bad guy . . . . into a good guy . . . . mission failure. I plan on switching from my .40 Shield to my wife's .380 Shield EZ. With the improvements to the .380 rounds, it's a legitimate self-defense round. John Moses invented it, and it used to be referred to as the Browning 9mm. It penetrates fine, without the worry of overpenetration. I'd carry my Ruger 57 if I could conceal the 5" barrel. This Youtube video is informative, and might be useful on deciding on the round.
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
And for an even bigger blast from the old days, we have this:
That's what I carried for my first few years in uniform. When I went into narcotics in 1990 I hadn't qualified with another duty weapon yet (we only qualified annually), so for a little while I had to carry that hogleg concealed. That was no easy task for a 150 pound guy in the summer time in the northeast US, where summer lays on top of you like a wet wool blanket. You definitely weren't tucking that into the waistband of a pair of shorts.
Sadly, I could now probably conceal a Panzerfaust and no one would notice.
I still have that beauty, though I probably haven't shot it in over 20 years. There's something very authoritative about a .357 magnum.
Sierra: I actually went from a 9mm to a .45, and then back to 9mm again.
That's what I carried for my first few years in uniform. When I went into narcotics in 1990 I hadn't qualified with another duty weapon yet (we only qualified annually), so for a little while I had to carry that hogleg concealed. That was no easy task for a 150 pound guy in the summer time in the northeast US, where summer lays on top of you like a wet wool blanket. You definitely weren't tucking that into the waistband of a pair of shorts.
Sadly, I could now probably conceal a Panzerfaust and no one would notice.
I still have that beauty, though I probably haven't shot it in over 20 years. There's something very authoritative about a .357 magnum.
Sierra: I actually went from a 9mm to a .45, and then back to 9mm again.
If I only carried while traveling or places that weren't packed with people over penetration wouldn't be an issue. But in the middle of Wal-Mart or Kroger, I don't want to worry about my background. The .380 and 5.7 gives me the peace of mind. And the 5.7 gives me 25rds in one magazine.
I agree with you on the modern semi-autos being clunky and ugly. (I'll never be able to make myself like a Glock) That old 39-2 of yours has more than a little Hi-Power influence in it.
I agree with you on the modern semi-autos being clunky and ugly. (I'll never be able to make myself like a Glock) That old 39-2 of yours has more than a little Hi-Power influence in it.
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
Yeah, there are definitely some visual similarities, though I don't know enough about the design histories of either gun to be able to say if one was an actual influence on the other. I suspect that firearms design then was like it is now: "hey, that looks cool and it sells well, let's make one of our own".
I think that at the range that most confrontations occur, accuracy is a lot more important than caliber. I know that large calibers feel confidence inspiring, but from 5 or 10 feet away, proper shot placement of a .380 round is going to be, at the least, a discouraging event for the recipient. I do have a .380 but it's a Sterling, so obviously I'd feel safer carrying a slingshot and a ball bearing.
I think, given the choice between a .380 and a .38 special, I'd opt for my .38. The old wheelguns don't get much love in these days of 18+ capacity, but I still occasionally still carry my Model 60 Smith & Wesson .38 special when I don't feel like having a brick hanging on my belt. I wish I'd bought a hammerless Airweight instead back in the late 80's when I bought the Model 60; for me, that's like the perfect pocket handgun.
I think that at the range that most confrontations occur, accuracy is a lot more important than caliber. I know that large calibers feel confidence inspiring, but from 5 or 10 feet away, proper shot placement of a .380 round is going to be, at the least, a discouraging event for the recipient. I do have a .380 but it's a Sterling, so obviously I'd feel safer carrying a slingshot and a ball bearing.
I think, given the choice between a .380 and a .38 special, I'd opt for my .38. The old wheelguns don't get much love in these days of 18+ capacity, but I still occasionally still carry my Model 60 Smith & Wesson .38 special when I don't feel like having a brick hanging on my belt. I wish I'd bought a hammerless Airweight instead back in the late 80's when I bought the Model 60; for me, that's like the perfect pocket handgun.
Interesting to see the discussion comparing different rounds.
I do service competition & WA1500 (very similar) & just about everyone here that does these reloads their own to get power factor. Factory rounds greatly exceed power factor so reducing the powder still propels a projectile to 1,000+ fps & cycles a semi auto but doesn’t have the kick.
It means some people will still do a 1 inch grouping at 50 yards (not me though… maybe 3 inch at best) from a semi auto. A revolver gives a better grouping as there isn’t the need to cycle.
Personally, there’s the movie line of carrying the biggest slug will stop anyone (although the FBI proved that wrong years ago even when using 357M/38sp against a druggy) - buti believe that better placed & less shots will certainly reduce the possibility of collateral damage.
I do service competition & WA1500 (very similar) & just about everyone here that does these reloads their own to get power factor. Factory rounds greatly exceed power factor so reducing the powder still propels a projectile to 1,000+ fps & cycles a semi auto but doesn’t have the kick.
It means some people will still do a 1 inch grouping at 50 yards (not me though… maybe 3 inch at best) from a semi auto. A revolver gives a better grouping as there isn’t the need to cycle.
Personally, there’s the movie line of carrying the biggest slug will stop anyone (although the FBI proved that wrong years ago even when using 357M/38sp against a druggy) - buti believe that better placed & less shots will certainly reduce the possibility of collateral damage.
Sorry to delete your post Ss1 but gotta keep this thread to what the title and first post say. Who has or hasn't had to use a weapon jumps too fast to the when, where, why, and second guessing debates.
Range is the other reason that the new .380 ammo is so effective. And with the lesser recoil, follow on shots are going to be quicker and more accurate. But the weapon itself, regardless of caliber, has to be reliable and malfunction free. The wheel gun has always been considered m ore reliable than a semi-auto. But the only semi that was trash was my .45acp Kimber. Turns out that the gun cme with an internal extractor. I knew that I was going to have at least one malfunction per magazine. (not good for a duty weapon) Kimber ended up "polishing the feed ramp and replacing the front sight". They never admitted any design fault, but the front sight replacement included the slide being replaced. The new slide came with an EXternal extractor. Problem solved, no more malfunctions.
Memories, when I joined, I was issued a S&W model 15 4". Never went out into the field with it, we were allowed to carry other models that they approved, and manditory department issued rounds. I bought and carried a S&W model 686 4" in a low swivel holster. For several years we had the small Ford LTD with the 5.0 engine and bucket seats, no way could you sit without a swivel holster. After about 10 years, we went to the Barretta 92F.And for an even bigger blast from the old days, we have this:
That's what I carried for my first few years in uniform. When I went into narcotics in 1990 I hadn't qualified with another duty weapon yet (we only qualified annually), so for a little while I had to carry that hogleg concealed. That was no easy task for a 150 pound guy in the summer time in the northeast US, where summer lays on top of you like a wet wool blanket. You definitely weren't tucking that into the waistband of a pair of shorts.
Sadly, I could now probably conceal a Panzerfaust and no one would notice.
I still have that beauty, though I probably haven't shot it in over 20 years. There's something very authoritative about a .357 magnum.
Sierra: I actually went from a 9mm to a .45, and then back to 9mm again.
RCinNC
Well-Known Member
LOL, when I first joined, we didn't have actual gunbelts or police style holsters. We put the holster on the same belt that held up our uniform pants, along with a cuff case and a 6 round dump pouch. They were high rise holsters, presumably so it was more comfortable to sit in a car for an 8 hour shift. One very serious drawback was that the only way you could use the bathroom was to take the gun out of the holster and sit it somewhere (like the toilet tank) when you dropped your uniform trousers. Occasionally you'd hear a radio call telling a member to return to a specific restaurant because they forgot something. That was code for "get back to the diner and get the gun you forgot in the bathroom".
My department was really reluctant to transition to the use of semiauto pistols. They weren't allowed at all when I first joined, even for off duty use. I think one of the department's fears was the heightened concern for accidental discharges. Once they did begin to allow them, it was initially only for off duty use (still had to carry the magnum when you were working). Initially no single action semiautos were permitted, so no Colt .45 patterns. The only acceptable ones had to be double action only or double action/single action, with a decocking lever, a manual safety (no grip safeties), and I believe it was mandatory that they had a magazine disconnect. We didn't officially transition to semiautos as a duty weapon until sometime I think in the early or mid 90s, when we ended up with a Beretta 96D .40 double action only. I was out of uniform long before that point and working in investigations, and was carrying the 39-2.
I still have the 96D; I bought it when the department phased them out for the Glock GAP .45. I actually liked the Beretta, and enjoyed shooting it, but it was really hard to conceal and it weighed a ton. I only carried it during tactical operations, because I wanted all the team members to be armed the same way.
True.I just realized a "what's the best gun?" is the same as "what's the best oil?".With the same answer: whatever works best for you.
I turned up at the range with my beretta & then get told that everyone there has tried them & found them to be crap for accuracy. One fellow even said the top team in the USA was sponsored them with all the fine tuning and bells & whistles, & their performance went from best in the world to about fourth. Several years ago, of course. These are all people who’ve been shooting for 30 years or more.
I’ve only been going for about ten years.
Still, it would have been nice to have that info.
I’m thinking of starting to look for another 9mm competition gun but not super expensive as I’m not super competitive. I use the theory that it’s me that needs the work instead of the gun
Many here use 380 but it’s getting so that brass is getting very hard to find.