Suspension & two up riding

[Rasher]

I definitely see a suspension upgrade in my future. I just hate to do it before I wear out the stock suspenders

Just do it ::008::

The bike will just ride better on every single mile you cover, why wait :question:

I was most unimpressed with the two-up performance (As I have been with a few bikes over the years) I don't want to have to slow right down, or be real gentle on the throttle / brakes, or corner 25% slower because the bike grinds out, I want to hop on and ride it "normally" regardless of if I am on a solo blast or tow-up with a fortnights luggage.

I knew I would have hated it on the first proper trip, no point for me to travelt to the alos just to be frustrated with an ill handling bike when I hit some of the worlds best twisties, and the rest of the time it still handles better, rides bumps better and has a stack more clearance. On top of £11.5k for the bike and luggage another £1k to massively improve handling and comfort is a small price to pay.

 

[Mikef5000]

We don't weight too much (maybe 300 pounds combined), but I crank the preload to max when I'm going on a decent 2-up ride. I thought the bike rocked 2-up though, the suspension and brakes seemed completely unfazed by doubling the load.

 

[Hungry Tiger]

I'm 225# + 70# gear. Adjusted rear shock preload one full mark down (several CW turns WHILE ON THE CENTER STAND). Got low beams out of oncoming eyes and more importantly much more light onto the road. Plus bike rides with overall tighter feeling.

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[tomatocity]

I'm 175lbs and my wife is...um...um...a little less. : I may need to get an Eibach because IMHO, the Tenere handles like a pig 2-up fully loaded. I put a set of Jaxon's riser links on the rear and that helped a lot, but even with the preload maxed out, the rear suspension is way too soft.

I've noticed a strange phenomenon with the S10 too. When the bike is pushed a bit in the twisties while riding loaded and 2-up, and I get a little lazy and don't get my upper body down on the tank and out toward the mirrors, the S10 will get a little bit of head shake. Thankfully, the head shake is easily remedied by simply leaning forward. However, I believe the symptom is a result of the bike being completely out of balance, with most of the load on the rear, and very little load on the front.

I definitely see a suspension upgrade in my future. I just hate to do it before I wear out the stock suspenders.

Head shake: Do yourself a favor and adjust the steering head. Most of the Tenere's seem to have this issue.

Raising Links: I like them on my KLR but have not tried them on the Tenere. As you know adding preload to the Tenere raises the rear of the bike a lot.

Rear spring: Replacing the rear spring is probably temporary. I want to lose at least 30 pounds and rebuild the front suspension before replacing the rear shock.

Eibach Spring & Spacer: The Eibach spring is 10mm shorter than the stock spring. This is the reason for the spacer.

 

[sed149]

I know the thread's a bit stale but after a couple of searches, I haven't found anything closer to my question.

2-up with gear we're up there in max spec'd weight territory (all my fault naturally). Stock suspension was a little slushy in twisties but driveable - raising rear preload to 5 or 6 (max) is a little stiff but drives great. My question is the stock lights. 2-up, dims are in oncoming driver's eyes, brights are in the trees. Since weekends generally are 2up and weekdays (short runs/commute) are solo, I dropped the headlights WAY down to get them back to near spec at 2-up (pencil mark on garage door technique). Brights are too round projection to serve as my dims when riding solo and I'm blind as a bat solo on dims even after backing off preload. I also agree with earlier poster that the dims at spec height are maybe a little weaker than I like for night (plus MAYBE I ride a little more spirited when solo ^-^) so I was thinking of supplemental lights anyway. So would the experts recommend I:
1) Get stiffer rear spring and align the lights back where they belong, maybe add supplemental light or HID, or
2) Leave the stocks aligned for 2up (aimed at the pavement for solo) and add serious supplemental lights to round out the visibility on solo.

Thanks.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I know the thread's a bit stale but after a couple of searches, I haven't found anything closer to my question.

2-up with gear we're up there in max spec'd weight territory (all my fault naturally). Stock suspension was a little slushy in twisties but driveable - raising rear preload to 5 or 6 (max) is a little stiff but drives great. My question is the stock lights. 2-up, dims are in oncoming driver's eyes, brights are in the trees. Since weekends generally are 2up and weekdays (short runs/commute) are solo, I dropped the headlights WAY down to get them back to near spec at 2-up (pencil mark on garage door technique). Brights are too round projection to serve as my dims when riding solo and I'm blind as a bat solo on dims even after backing off preload. I also agree with earlier poster that the dims at spec height are maybe a little weaker than I like for night (plus MAYBE I ride a little more spirited when solo ^-^ ) so I was thinking of supplemental lights anyway. So would the experts recommend I:
1) Get stiffer rear spring and align the lights back where they belong, maybe add supplemental light or HID, or
2) Leave the stocks aligned for 2up (aimed at the pavement for solo) and add serious supplemental lights to round out the visibility on solo.

Thanks.

I did the second, but then my partner doesn't weigh much, so with the spring cranked a bit the difference wasn't huge.

 

[avc8130]

I know the thread's a bit stale but after a couple of searches, I haven't found anything closer to my question.

2-up with gear we're up there in max spec'd weight territory (all my fault naturally). Stock suspension was a little slushy in twisties but driveable - raising rear preload to 5 or 6 (max) is a little stiff but drives great. My question is the stock lights. 2-up, dims are in oncoming driver's eyes, brights are in the trees. Since weekends generally are 2up and weekdays (short runs/commute) are solo, I dropped the headlights WAY down to get them back to near spec at 2-up (pencil mark on garage door technique). Brights are too round projection to serve as my dims when riding solo and I'm blind as a bat solo on dims even after backing off preload. I also agree with earlier poster that the dims at spec height are maybe a little weaker than I like for night (plus MAYBE I ride a little more spirited when solo ^-^) so I was thinking of supplemental lights anyway. So would the experts recommend I:
1) Get stiffer rear spring and align the lights back where they belong, maybe add supplemental light or HID, or
2) Leave the stocks aligned for 2up (aimed at the pavement for solo) and add serious supplemental lights to round out the visibility on solo.

Thanks.

Changing preload doesn't change the spring rate...it shouldn't be any more "stiff".

Since you are noticing that the stock suspension is lacking, swapping to an aftermarket shock will be leaps and bounds better for you.

If you need any help, let me know.

ac

 

[tubebender]

IStock suspension was a little slushy in twisties but driveable

All little slushy! Man, mine handled like a chevy van with blown shocks!

I put a new springs front and rear and spent a little time setting up the bike. All I have to do now is add or subtract rear preload depending on weight. Handling is consistent and lights are fine.

Give Jaxon a call, he can set you up.


Ah, I see ac chimed in. He knows this stuff too.

 

[Rasher]

Just got back from 3500 miles to / around and back from the Alps, the Wilburs was awesome, enough adjustment to handle really sweet two-up with 120L of boxes filled with our crap, just controlled the whole lot brilliantly, of course the spring is still too soft, if sprung for this weight it would be useless solo, but with a load more compression and a shade more rebound damping plus a s*1t load of pre-load it worked very well.

I also added some 10mm dog bones as even with pre-load maxxed out and the stiffer spring it still sits about 15mm lower fully loaded than solo without any pre-load, a quick solo spin revealed I quite liked the bike with the links solo so may leave them on for a while, but as she now has her own bike I may go softer on the spring and just pop this one back in if we ever do another big two-up trip, hopefully I will be solo on the next one

 

[Firefight911]

Re: Suspension & two up riding

The use of links to gain "preload" does nothing to correct geometry as a result of an improper spring. Changing ride height changes geometry only after correct suspension adjustment is achieved to modify rake and trail, adjust feel to the front/rear, change balance, and alter the handling. They really should be treated separately and not combined to attain a "preload."


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[sed149]

ok - thanks all for the quick education. Rasher - I like your solution & it's in play also - wife is now looking at bikes that'll suit her height and go more or less where the S10 will go.

 

[mstef66]

I'd like to get in on this suspension discussion if I could.
I am 3 weeks into my new S10 and I am trying to get it ready for my first trip from CT to TN riding 2-up.
I took a nice ride Sat to get the break in miles away before the trip.

I have been reading up on some of the suspension info here on the list and I am trying to get mine set for 2-up.
I am reading that the sag should be set to 1/3 of full travel. Full travel being 7.5" I am trying to get the loaded sag to 2.5"

I wanted to get my solo sag set first so I set the adjuster to the green mark and took a measurement.
Measurement is taken from the swing frame near the axle straight up to a point on the sub frame.
What I found was I had to crank the adjuster to full hard and I am getting 2.5" of sag solo.
I find this odd because I am 178# and I was wearing shorts and no gear at all.

I find it odd that the specs say the bike can handle a 460# load. I figured this is plenty for the wife and I loaded.

Am I missing something? Should I be shooting for 50% travel for loaded sag? (This is what I am use to for my street bike)

On a side note:
What is the difference between the XTZ12D and the XTZ12DC?

Thanks for all the great info.

Mike

 

[Rasher]

Am I missing something?

Yes, an aftermarket shock, or at least a stiffer spring ::008::

The bike will indeed "handle" the load, as in it will not snap in half or fail to pull away, depending how you ride you may find it OK (ish) but if your going to do a lot of this sort of thing a few bucks spent on a shock will be well worth it.

Your street bike should also be set to about 1/3rd travel with you on board, failure to get this set properly would indicate that is also under sprung, with the S10's large amount of travel I think it works quite well even with it being a bit under sprung, but many folk prefer the bike with the pre-load much higher than stock for solo use, leaving little room to compensate for the passenger.

10mm (or similar) raising links are a quick and cheap way to at least help the steering and stop the bike grounding out all the time, and of course wind the pre-load to the max and up the damping by about 4-5 clicks, it won't be perfect but should be a fair bit better.

 

[avc8130]

I'd like to get in on this suspension discussion if I could.
I am 3 weeks into my new S10 and I am trying to get it ready for my first trip from CT to TN riding 2-up.
I took a nice ride Sat to get the break in miles away before the trip.

I have been reading up on some of the suspension info here on the list and I am trying to get mine set for 2-up.
I am reading that the sag should be set to 1/3 of full travel. Full travel being 7.5" I am trying to get the loaded sag to 2.5"

I wanted to get my solo sag set first so I set the adjuster to the green mark and took a measurement.
Measurement is taken from the swing frame near the axle straight up to a point on the sub frame.
What I found was I had to crank the adjuster to full hard and I am getting 2.5" of sag solo.
I find this odd because I am 178# and I was wearing shorts and no gear at all.

I find it odd that the specs say the bike can handle a 460# load. I figured this is plenty for the wife and I loaded.

Am I missing something? Should I be shooting for 50% travel for loaded sag? (This is what I am use to for my street bike)

On a side note:
What is the difference between the XTZ12D and the XTZ12DC?

Thanks for all the great info.

Mike

Mike,

Do a bit of searching. We have been hashing this out since the beginning of the Tenere existence.

If you are serious about the performance of your bike riding 2-up loaded down there is no better solution than an aftermarket shock.

For street applications, rear sag should be 50-55mm.

If you insist on using the stock shock, max the preload and mostly likely max the rebound damping for "best" performance. However, that won't even compare to an aftermarket solution.

ac

 

[mstef66]

Mike,

Do a bit of searching. We have been hashing this out since the beginning of the Tenere existence.

If you are serious about the performance of your bike riding 2-up loaded down there is no better solution than an aftermarket shock.

For street applications, rear sag should be 50-55mm.

If you insist on using the stock shock, max the preload and mostly likely max the rebound damping for "best" performance. However, that won't even compare to an aftermarket solution.

ac

OK, so it's not just me. Good to know.
Most of my riding is 2-up. I have a Penske shock on my ST1100 set up for 2-up riding.
Traxxion Dynamics didn't get me the right shock for the ST1100 so I called Penske and the let me come down with the shock on the bike. They reworked the shock on the spot for me until it was perfect. Spent the better part of the day with me.

A Penske will be fitted in short time but I have to get by with the stock for now. I will crank it down all the way and make due. I like to ride aggressively in the twisties so I will have to get it right. I will be riding Deals Gap on this trip. I should learn a lot.

Penske will always be my shock of choice because of the service they provided me and I will always recommend them.

Any thought on lowering the forks in the triples a bit to compensate? I am not concerned with clearance on this trip.
Does Sonic make a spring the the S10?

Thanks again for the support.

Mike

 

[avc8130]

OK, so it's not just me. Good to know.
Most of my riding is 2-up. I have a Penske shock on my ST1100 set up for 2-up riding.
Traxxion Dynamics didn't get me the right shock for the ST1100 so I called Penske and the let me come down with the shock on the bike. They reworked the shock on the spot for me until it was perfect. Spent the better part of the day with me.

A Penske will be fitted in short time but I have to get by with the stock for now. I will crank it down all the way and make due. I like to ride aggressively in the twisties so I will have to get it right. I will be riding Deals Gap on this trip. I should learn a lot.

Penske will always be my shock of choice because of the service they provided me and I will always recommend them.

Any thought on lowering the forks in the triples a bit to compensate? I am not concerned with clearance on this trip.
Does Sonic make a spring the the S10?

Thanks again for the support.

Mike

Mike,

You are in trouble. You have tasted the poison fruit! LOL

Stoltec does an FPK (Fork Piston Kit) that a TON of guys on this forum have.

ac

 

[mstef66]

Mike,

You are in trouble. You have tasted the poison fruit! LOL

Stoltec does an FPK (Fork Piston Kit) that a TON of guys on this forum have.

ac

Story of my life ac, haha
I can never leave my toys alone.
Must make them better.

Mike

 

[avc8130]

Story of my life ac, haha
I can never leave my toys alone.
Must make them better.

Mike

Mike,

Yeah man! It's an addiction. Of all of the crap I put on my S10, the suspension is the only piece I enjoy completely EVERY time I ride my bike.

ac

 

[Firefight911]

Re: Suspension & two up riding

Mike,

Yeah man! It's an addiction. Of all of the crap I put on my S10, the suspension is the only piece I enjoy completely EVERY time I ride my bike.

ac

Ditto.

Suspension is mandatory. The rest is all fluff in comparison.


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