Small "gap" in power delivery

[Nikolajsen]

Hi again.
More questions from a newbie.
I have recently given my new 2017 model, full throtle in the lower gear. (only done about 1400 miles)
I did this:
Driving slowly in first gear, and give full throtle. No clutch or anything else...
First time I noticed some gap in the power delivery in first gear. I thought that the rear wheel was spinning a little, so that the TCS kick in,
I deactivated the TCS, and tried again, and I am pretty sure it had the same gap in power delivery (always only in first gear)

Is there on a 2017 model, some electronic that prevent the front wheel from going in the sky? That still is activated even when the TCS is deactivated :question: :question:
Or what could have caursed the gap in power delivery :question: :question:

In the manual, it says something about that the TCS system will disable, when either of the wheels is loosing contact with the ground...but disable...then it shoud not do anything with the power delivery.

I have read the thread about doing wheelie, but did not really find answer to my question, onlt that some write that the TCS system will put the front whell down.
But I have deactivated TCS and still noticed gap in power delivery.

Just to clearify, I am not trying to do wheelie, just to find out what causes the gap in power delivery.

 

[magic]

I think the "gap" in power delivery you are referring to is just a slight hesitation caused by the fuel injection. There is just a little delayed reaction when you blip the throttle. Every fuel injected bike I ever road had this annoying feature. I would love to have set of good CV carburetors on my S10. Good luck with the wheelies...it is possible to wheelie an S10!

 

[Nikolajsen]

Thank you ::008::
But I see now that I didn´t explain it exactly as i happen.
When given full throttle, there is no problem/hesitation. The smal gap comes later, in the higher rpm. Some times 2 small gap, and sometime only one.

And again I am not trying to do wheelie, just to figure out what causes the small gap.

 

[Dogdaze]

Does the TCS light flash during this power gap? If it does then is the TCS kicking in and cutting fuel supply to prevent the front wheel lift. At high RPM is where the full power comes in .

 

[Nikolajsen]

Does the TCS light flash during this power gap? If it does then is the TCS kicking in and cutting fuel supply to prevent the front wheel lift. At high RPM is where the full power comes in .

I have been thinking about this, but I didn't think of looking after this
But it still does it, with TCS deactivated....
Could it be that the TCS still will prevent front wheel lift, even when it is deactivated :question:

 

[Checkswrecks]

No, once TCS is truly de-activated and the light is flashing, the bike should be able to wheelie. That said,


The bike is not a 250cc and takes a lot more power to wheelie. Even without you or gas, it weighs 261 kg. Give it some rpm before releasing the clutch and it should come up.


The Tenere takes a long time to break in and a lot of them will occasionally stall in the first few thousand km. The fuel injection is delivered lean. There are threads about how to richen it by changing the carbon monoxide (CO) setting.

 

[Nikolajsen]

Than you everybody ::008:: ::008::

But most of you misunderstand me (or don't read it all )

I AM NOT TRYING TO DO WHEELIE

Just to figure out what causes the power gap...

I have for many weeks ago, send a email to the dealer where I bought the S10. And now suddenly, there is answer...
And you are right, when TCS is deactivated, there is no monitoring of the front wheel lift, and no monitoring of rear wheel spinning.

So I will have to try again.

(the TCS symbol will not flash, when deactivated. I wil be permently on. It is when TCS on, and controlling the power it will flash)

Thank you for taking the time to answer me ::012:: ::012::

 

[Dogdaze]

Also what CW mentioned, these bikes has miserable fuelling, jerky and the possibility to stall, until it reaches the 5000 mile (8500km) mark, then those issues seem to disappear.

 

[Nikolajsen]

Also what CW mentioned, these bikes has miserable fuelling, jerky and the possibility to stall, until it reaches the 5000 mile (8500km) mark, then those issues seem to disappear.

Yes. I did pay attention to this. And I am very supprised about this. ??? ( I think I will talk to the dealer about this)
But thanks, to make sure, that I have read all the post in a prober way ;D

 

[Checkswrecks]

If the TCS is flashing while you twist the throttle, it generally means that the rear wheel is getting enough power to slip or spin. It could also be the front wheel coming off the ground for a second.


As mentioned, this bike feels tight and hesitant for the first couple thousand km.


When you are ready, here are two threads to be aware of:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=1974.0
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=1973.0

 

[Nikolajsen]

::008:: ::008::

If the TCS is flashing while you twist the throttle, it generally means that the rear wheel is getting enough power to slip or spin. It could also be the front wheel coming off the ground for a second.


As mentioned, this bike feels tight and hesitant for the first couple thousand km.


When you are ready, here are two threads to be aware of:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=1974.0
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=1973.0

 

[Mark R.]

I believe this bike has power restrictions in the first couple of gears, which is done away with if you get the ECU flashed.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I believe this bike has power restrictions in the first couple of gears, which is done away with if you get the ECU flashed.

That was quite noticeable with the Gen1 bikes, not so much with the Gen2.

 

[Nikolajsen]

I believe this bike has power restrictions in the first couple of gears, which is done away with if you get the ECU flashed.

God to know.
But why? because of the shaft drive or/and cluth?

 

[Dogdaze]

God to know.
But why? because of the shaft drive or/and cluth?

Because as a motorcycle rider, they (government body and manufactures) assume we have a sandwiches short of a picnic, and thus cannot be trusted to restrict our twisty hand. So, in the interest of 'our' safety, they have made the first three gears impotent. I noticed this little 'design feature' when I owned a Hayabusa many years ago, first three gears allowed 50% of the power, once I de-restricted it I soon realized it was better the way it was, untouched, I just could not help my self, my right hand had a mind of it's own.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Because as a motorcycle rider, they (government body and manufactures) assume we have a sandwiches short of a picnic, and thus cannot be trusted to restrict our twisty hand. So, in the interest of 'our' safety, they have made the first three gears impotent. I noticed this little 'design feature' when I owned a Hayabusa many years ago, first three gears allowed 50% of the power, once I de-restricted it I soon realized it was better the way it was, untouched, I just could not help my self, my right hand had a mind of it's own.

That's one theory. Another was that for the off-road that the bike was designed for, you'd want less power and this was how they did it.

 

[Sierra1]

Also what CW mentioned, these bikes has miserable fuelling, jerky and the possibility to stall, until it reaches the 5000 mile (8500km) mark, then those issues seem to disappear.

The only time I felt a "hesitation" was in "T", and that WAS back in the 2k mile area. It was back then that I gave up being happy with "T". Now, almost to 6k miles, I was a gear lower than I thought, and accelerated hard. Front end started to rise, TCS kicked in, front end came back down. I shifted up, accelerated hard, and again the front end started to rise. And, again TCS kicked in, and brought the wheel back down. 1) What kind of sensor reads the front wheel lift? 2) Where is at? (no, I am not going to mess with; just curious) 3) I've read about Teneres not having full power in the lower gears. I've never felt THAT. 4) I was doing 35ish when I accelerated and POWERED the front wheel up, albeit accidently. 5) I love that my bike is smarter than I, and will save my bacon.

 

[Nikolajsen]

It is the ABS sensor that " can se" that the front whell is slower than the back whell.
But I don't understand how you can power lift the front wheel, I don't think I can do that, not even in the 2 lower gear.
Don't remember though, if I was ever tried in "S" mode...does it really do that much difference?

 

[Checkswrecks]

1) What kind of sensor reads the front wheel lift? 2) Where is at?

As Nikolajsen wrote, it's the computer comparing the two wheel speed sensors. Look at the left side of your front wheel hub and you'll see a cable. The rear one is on the right. There is a segmented ring in there, so the sensor simply provides a magnetic pulse to the computer and the computer counts those. The front sensor is used for numerous functions, such as TCS, ABS, speedometer, and other instrument displays.

3) I've read about Teneres not having full power in the lower gears. I've never felt THAT.

This was largely true for the Gen1 bikes and not for the Gen2 bikes. Yamaha listened to us in developing the Gen2 bike and made big programming changes.

4) I was doing 35ish when I accelerated and POWERED the front wheel up, albeit accidently.

You can get a little lift if you hit it hard, but the ECU will reduce the throttle input as soon as it sees the wheel speeds really start to differ. In sport mode and TCS2, it'll hold the front wheel a couple of inches off the ground for a number of yards before it comes back down, because in TCS2, it'll allow a bit more difference. On a wet corner the computer allows enough difference in wheel speeds that you can hang/slide with the rear tire out an inch or two.

 

[Sierra1]

...."S" mode...does it really do that much difference?

Nikolajsen, yes, "S" does make that big of a difference. Like a totally different bike. Fuel delivery is more touchy/twitchy, but you'll learn to make smaller throttle inputs and smooth it out. But, and CW was correct, I was twisting the throttle hard when it lifted. And, thankfully, the ECU did shut it down. BUT, I wasn't twisting any harder than I have before. So I definitely think that CW is right about the 5K mile thing also. It's either that or the engine REALLY likes cool weather. (to us, 75 is cool) And I should have known that ABS/TCS share a sensor; accell or decell, it's still wheel speed.