Penske 8983 Farkle

[Mchaskell]

When you start farkling a farkle it's a disease. ???

Added a thrust bearing to the Penske preload thingamajig today.

Anybody who wants to follow down this rabbit hole:
NTA3648 bearing
TRA3648 thrust race
About $9 from the bearing supply house.

 

[Karson]

Cool mod man. We need more of these types of threads.

I thought for awhile penske was shipping their 8983/87's with these, how long have you had it?

 

[Mchaskell]

I picked it up used from an inmate here, so I am not sure of what came with the shock when it was new.

 

[Dallara]

When you start farkling a farkle it's a disease. ???

Added a thrust bearing to the Penske preload thingamajig today.

Anybody who wants to follow down this rabbit hole:
NTA3648 bearing
TRA3648 thrust race
About $9 from the bearing supply house.

Didn't come with mine, but I like it. Saw those on lots of our race car shocks but just never thought to use one on my S-10's Penske.

Thanks for the part numbers and info, Mchaskell. Really appreciate it!!! ::008::

Just ordered up one of each!

Dallara




~

 

[creggur]

Anybody want to explain the benefits of this to a suspension idiot?

Thanks in advance...

Signed,
Suspension Idiot

 

[Karson]

Easier preload adjustments. The needle bearings will spin easier than the aluminum preload collar being directly on the spring (going from memory here, I believe that's how the Penske's setup) ::008::

 

[Dallara]

Anybody want to explain the benefits of this to a suspension idiot?

Thanks in advance...

Signed,
Suspension Idiot

Makes preload adjustments easier, and with a smoother, silkier *feel* when turning the preload collar. Note, this is on a shock like a Penske. Probably wouldn't make a bit of difference on a stock shock with its hydraulic preload adjustment.

With a shock like a Penske it should make it much easier to make very slight, incremental changes in preload easier and more accurate, too.

I hope AVC chimes in here, as he has some interesting points about why Stoltec didn't include these with the Super Tenere Penske shocks he has supplied. Remember, AVC was directly involved with the development of the Stoltec/Penske suspension components.

Dallara



~

 

[Karson]

Didn't come with mine, but I like it. Saw those on lots of our race car shocks but just never thought to use one on my S-10's Penske.

Thanks for the part numbers and info, Mchaskell. Really appreciate it!!! ::008::

Just ordered up one of each!

Dallara




~

You got yours relatively early on, right? Nick mentioned he thought Penske was shipping them with these initially when these were first available, but didn't know, if that was the case, when they stopped.

avc - does yours have a torrington bearing?

 

[Dallara]

You got yours relatively early on, right? Nick mentioned he thought Penske was shipping them with these initially when these were first available, but didn't know, if that was the case, when they stopped.

avc - does yours have a torrington bearing?

I wasn't that "early" in the Stoltec Penske queue. I think the first ones after AVC's were in like February or March of 2012, and I got mine in late July or early August of 2012.

Mine did *NOT* come with the bearing, but now I know why, and for very good reason.

But since AVC passed the info to me via PM I'd rather let him explain it here.

Just like my Arrow headers I may never mount the bearing, but it'll be nice to have around if I want to! ::025::

Dallara



~

 

[avc8130]

Makes preload adjustments easier, and with a smoother, silkier *feel* when turning the preload collar. Note, this is on a shock like a Penske. Probably wouldn't make a bit of difference on a stock shock with its hydraulic preload adjustment.

With a shock like a Penske it should make it much easier to make very slight, incremental changes in preload easier and more accurate, too.

I hope AVC chimes in here, as he has some interesting points about why Stoltec didn't include these with the Super Tenere Penske shocks he has supplied. Remember, AVC was directly involved with the development of the Stoltec/Penske suspension components.

Dallara



~

I had been avoiding this thread...but since ya dragged me in anyways...

Nick started with Penske's standard setup that INCLUDES the same thrust washer when he developed my shock. I have one on my wife's Speed Triple Penske. For track/race and fair weather bikes they are decent.

BUT...

Since I knew this board is a demanding bunch of crazies that thinks this 600+ pound monster is better than a KTM 300 EXC off road I did my best to ride the developmental shock through every off road opportunity I could find.

I blasted through streams, through every mud puddle I could find, through NJ sand and pretty much did my best to test the shock. We were hoping to confirm the damping was excellent and that the seals could handle the abuse.

Both of those were confirmed. The damping did EXCELLENT offroad and nothing was leaking out by the time I was done.

However, the preload bearing suffered an untimely death. Within less than 3 months it was a complete pile of rust and had amounted to nothing more than a rusty washer. I couldn't imagine what it would look like after a few "winter" rides with the salt we have in NJ.

Nick made the decision to pull the bearings from the Tenere configuration since they just didn't stand up to the abuse he expected Tenere riders to put it them through.

Nick has searched high and wide for a SS version, but SS just isn't typically used for bearings. He has searched for a "sealed" thrust bearing, but again no luck. If anyone knows where either can be had for a reasonable price, I will buy one immediately and begin durability trials.

To the guys who have ordered the bearings, for $12 give them a shot...let me know how they work out for you and I will let Nick know (or let him know yourselves, he thrives on customer feedback).

ac

 

[Dallara]

I had been avoiding this thread...but since ya dragged me in anyways...

[great explanation snipped]

ac

Don't you just hate it when AVC gets "dragged" into a thread, kickin' and screamin'... ::025::

Dallara




~

 

[creggur]

Well, I for one truly appreciate the thorough explanation. I've been flipping back and forth between Penske and Ohlins so often I feel effin' dizzy. The one big difference is the hydraulic preload adjuster on the Ohlins.

As it stands, I may go weeks on-end without adjusting rear preload (just me commuting and tearing around on weekends), but then the wife gets in a mood to tag along and I'm adjusting it twice or more per week for weeks on end (amazingly enough this happens when the weather is really nice). The biggest concern I have about the Penske is the preload adjuster - and the hassle and wear involved in that style adjustment.

I know both are plenty-good for the style riding I do - mostly touring and sport-touring with a spat of light gravel and dirt road, but dammit, when your gonna make the investment - you want to get it right the first time.

Do you "gurus" have any idea how frustrating this stuff is for the "ignorant among you"?

 

[avc8130]

It really depends, some guys find the preload collar to be a pain and others never seem to find an issue.

I've mentioned this to Nick repeatedly. He has sold 4+ dozen Penskes to Tenere owners.

He has had <1 in 10 even mention difficulty with the preload to him.

I think 1 or 2 guys had trouble with bending preload tools. Nick brought that to Penske and they realized a batch hadn't been hardened.

I am still able to make preload adjustments without the bearing, but admittedly I don't adjust too often. My wife rides her own bike, so she is rarely on the back. When I load up with luggage, I generally adjust the preload and the luggage stays on for the duration of the trip. Then I adjust again when I get home. I always make adjustments on the center stand.

With the right spring, you can get away with a lot more. Any shock will be SO much better than stock at handling the additional weight that you may find you don't NEED to adjust preload as the bike may still handle "acceptably" although not "perfect" for the times the wife rides along.

What it boiled down to for me: I would LOVE to have hydraulic preload...on a PENSKE. I would NEVER give up the ability to adjust high speed compression on my 8987 in favor of hydraulic preload.

ac

 

[Dallara]

Well, I for one truly appreciate the thorough explanation. I've been flipping back and forth between Penske and Ohlins so often I feel effin' dizzy. The one big difference is the hydraulic preload adjuster on the Ohlins.

As it stands, I may go weeks on-end without adjusting rear preload (just me commuting and tearing around on weekends), but then the wife gets in a mood to tag along and I'm adjusting it twice or more per week for weeks on end (amazingly enough this happens when the weather is really nice). The biggest concern I have about the Penske is the preload adjuster - and the hassle and wear involved in that style adjustment.

I know both are plenty-good for the style riding I do - mostly touring and sport-touring with a spat of light gravel and dirt road, but dammit, when your gonna make the investment - you want to get it right the first time.

Do you "gurus" have any idea how frustrating this stuff is for the "ignorant among you"?

Just as a note... There is no measurable or discernible "wear" or tear with the Penske's preload adjuster. And it works easily enough. In fact, as I have mentioned in other threads before, I actually prefer the Penske's single-collar manual pre-load adjuster to hydraulic ones (Please, before anybody gets overly sensitive or defensive - I am not knocking Ohlins!!! ::025:: ), but that's just me.

The Penske is *VERY* easy and quick to adjust - completely painless and no "hassle" at all to me.

I just ordered one of the bearings because all the shocks we used to use on our race cars had such bearings on the preload collars. As AVC pointed out, they may be counterproductive in our Super Tenere application.

Dallara




~

 

[Mchaskell]

Penske 8983 Farkle

"What it boiled down to for me: I would LOVE to have hydraulic preload...on a PENSKE. I would NEVER give up the ability to adjust high speed compression on my 8987 in favor of hydraulic preload."

If you want it bad enough it can be done: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?262803-Is-it-possible-to-fit-a-Penske-8983-with-the-OEM-Sachs-preload-adjuster

 

[avc8130]

I wonder if I could convert the stock preload...

ac

 

[Mchaskell]

I wonder if I could convert the stock preload...

ac

I also wondered about doing that.

 

[avc8130]

I also wondered about doing that.

Only one way to find out...

 

[Mchaskell]

Packed the bearing with grease. Hopefully out here in sunny CA it will last until Penske's 5,000 mile recommended service at which point it can be replaced if needed. As one might expect it significantly reduces the force required to set preload.

 

[avc8130]

Packed the bearing with grease. Hopefully out here in sunny CA it will last until Penske's 5,000 mile recommended service at which point it can be replaced if needed. As one might expect it significantly reduces the force required to set preload.

FWIW: I have found you can go much further than 5k miles between services. I am encroaching 20k on mine and plan to "let it ride".

ac