simmons1 said:
I ask because, since you don't use OEM filters on your cars why all the fuss about using only OEM filters on your ST? Isn't that a little hypocritical?
No. For a couple of reasons...
You obviously missed where I said I used to use AC Delco UltraGard filters. Since I currently have both a Suburban and a Cadillac those *WERE* OEM filters, and the best AC Delco made. Since then AC Delco has changed vendor/suppliers and it's not the same filter it used to be.
Second, when I was Honda dealer I used Honda (Denso) filters on my Honda's... And as a Lincoln-Mercury/Jeep/Subaru dealer I used Motorcraft (Ford) filters in the Linc-Merc's, Chrysler filters in the Jeep's, and Subaru filters in the Subaru's.
You also seemed to miss where I said I'd be happy to use a Mobil 1 M1-108 filter if I didn't have a Yamaha filter on hand, or that I'd gladly use a Honda-, Kawasaki-, or Suzuki-branded Denso filter on my Super Tenere, not to mention the info about Bosch owning Purolator so people could perhaps save a bit of $$$ there if they liked Purolator products. So perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to throw around that "hypocritical" label...
Point was simply that I don't mind spending the relatively insignificant dollar amount additional to get the best quality filter (and oil) I can find over simply searching for the cheapest filter (and oil) out there, and that I found it rather ludicrous that someone might complain about OEM oil filter prices as they just completed a thousand-dollar online order for Touratech or Altrider stuff while using the WiFi at the Starbucks as they drank their mega-buck Latte Frappuccino Double-Shot Non-Fat Swirl... ::025::
Fortunately for Super Tenere owners (and owners of Honda's, Kawasaki's, Suzuki's, and other Yamaha's) Denso makes some of the finest, highest quality, and most efficient oil filters in the world.
simmons1 said:
My F150 gets whatever (currently Castrol 5w20) the local oil change place pumps in it. It is has 130K on it and it works great still.
My experience over the last 300k plus motorcycle miles is that you don't have to use OEM filters and motorcycle specific oil to ensure reliability or longevity. Does it save you much money? Probably not. But I can go to any Walmart anywhere and buy a gallon of oil and a car filter to do an oil change with no worries about ruining an engine or wearing it out prematurely.
My ST1300 hasn't had motorcycle specific oil or OEM filters since it had 600 miles on it. Most of the filters I have used are cheap car filters in the $3 dollar range. At 106K miles it runs great and has no oil consumption between 5K mile changes regardless of how hard it is ridden. My old ZX11 had 80K on it when I sold it running car oil and car oil filters on a spin on adapter and it used no oil between 3K miles changes. My old FJ1100 used car oil and car filters on a spin on adapter most of its life. I sold it with almost 90k on it. The guy that bought it from me still rides it regularly and it has never been apart.
My experience says you can use what ever you want as long as it is changed periodically.
To each his own... And I applaud your experiences and respect your opinion. As I said, I'm not sure I understand it given the rather meager amount of dollars saved over the years, but to each his own. I wish you continued good fortune and mechanical harmony in your future use of less expensive filters and non-motorcycle specific oils in your bikes.
I will say, however, there is quite a bit of difference in filters, and you can see some of those here:
http://wetwesties1.tripod.com/oilfilterstudy/
http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html
http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/
http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/oil/filters/
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/general-discussion-issues-trouble-shooting/31190-oil-filters-dissected.html
There's a lot more out there, but those will give you some good ideas as to just how different oil filters can be inside, and some will give you some very interesting data about which filters actually filter best, flow best, or have significant differences in construction and why.
BTW, that filtration vs. flow thing is something most don't consider often... We all want good filtration, but do we want it at the expense of good oil flow? Some filters can be very, very restrictive to flow, and therefore can cause potentially cause other problems, pumping losses, etc.
And then there's oil...
Sure, lots of folks run non-motorcycle-specific oils, with quite a large number of riders especially liking to use diesel engine oils. While I think we can all agree that using "Energy Conservation" marked car oils with their "friction modifiers" is, indeed, a *BAD* thing in our wet-clutch motorcycles due to the potential clutch-slipping issues, there is another very good reason to be rather careful in choosing what oil you use, motorcycle-specific or not...
Most car engines - and most all Harley's - use hydraulic valve "lifters", and though the cam bears directly on the lifter in these engines there is a definite *cushioning* effect of the self-adjusting action of the hydraulic lifter. Unfortunately our Super Tenere (and the vast majority of motorcycle engines sold today) don't have such an arrangement, and the cam love bears directly against component (either the bucket or the bucket's shim) that lifts the valve from the seat. This is point of enormous pressures, and the only *cushioning* it gets is the oil film and whatever chemical components that make up that oil film.
You may have read here on this forum about our own EricV adding a bit of STP to his Shell Rotella oil at changes, and that the reason why is to boost the zinc content in the oil. Reading this you may have wondered why raising the zinc levels would be important. Years ago all engine oils had high levels of zinc and phosphorus in them because both of these are wonderful *cushioning* and anti-galling effects. However, as catalytic converters became more and more prevalent zinc and phosphorus levels were reduced more and more since they effect catalytic converter efficiency...
Note here: Zinc and phosphorus do *NOT* damage catalytic converters in any significant way, they simply make them less efficient at emissions control when any of the oil is burned and makes it out of the exhaust pipe.
Well, interestingly enough, one of the main things that separate motorcycle-specific oils and car oils is their levels of zinc and phosphorus. Specifically, motorcycle-specific oils have *SIGNIFICANTLY* higher levels of zinc and phosphorus than car oils, and this is one of the reasons they are much, much better for you motorcycle engine than car oils. And these higher levels of zinc and phosphorus don't just benefit the valvetrain, but that same *cushioning* helps crank bearings, wristpin lubrication, piston to cylinder wear, and especially gearbox impact loads.
Don't believe there is any real difference for your engine in one oil to another, especially between car, diesel, and motorcycle-specific oils? Take a look at the nominal phosphorus and zinc levels in just Mobil's family of oils...
As you can see, there is a difference. Whether or not those differences make any difference to you with your own bike is certainly up to you. I'm only trying to provide as much information as I can so everyone out there can make what they think is the best choice for them.
One day, if anyone's interested, I'll be happy to relate what we found out with various oils in Indy Car engines in relation to wear, power output, frictional loss, etc.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to use those wonderful, high-quality Denso-made OEM Yamaha filters on my Super Tenere along with Mobil 1 motorcycle-specific oil! ::012::
Dallara
p.s. as a mere sidenote, take a close look at Mobil 1 15w-50 "red cap" full synthetic in the above charts... and note how high its zinc and phosphorus content is and how it is recommended for "flat tappet" engines. Interestingly enough this Mobil 1 oil is *NOT* marked as "Energy Conserving", etc., and does *NOT* contain any of the "friction modifiers" that can cause clutch slipping. If you like using Mobil 1 motorcycle-specific oils but have trouble finding them the 15w-50 "red cap" full synthetic is great readily available alternative. Just FYI...
~
