Ohlins vs Penske shock advice

[creggur]

I've decided that I will be replacing my rear shock over the winter. I have narrowed the choices to either Ohlins or Penske. As far as dealers go, it looks like there are some good choices for both. Our buddy Jaxon and Stoltec who several of you have mentioned. Cost being similiar, what led those of you who upgraded to one over the other?

I love these threads because I'm still trying to figure out which way I'm gonna go. I've flipped between Penske and Ohlins in my mind so many times I feel dizzy. Needless to say whichever you go with you're getting a great product and a huge improvement over stock.

It really comes down to how much you want to spend, and whether certain features (like a hydraulic preload adjuster) are really important to you...

Good luck, I'm 4 months into this and still haven't decided...

 

[avc8130]

whether certain features (like a hydraulic preload adjuster) are really important to you...

Everyone hones in on that hydraulic preload adjustment. What about features Ohlins doesn't even OFFER for the Tenere?

The Penske offers Ride Height (not really proven useful on the Tenere).

The Penske offers SEPARATE High and Low speed compression adjustment (on the 8987). This is an AWESOME feature for really honing in the compression response...especially when the loading of the bike changes as much as it does on a typical Tenere. The separate circuits let the rider adjust how the shock complies to the nitty gritty as well as responds to the huge hits. This feature is INDISPENSABLE to anyone who has owned it and USED it.

ac

 

[Dallara]

My Ohlins forks have adjustable damping. I can adjust them. Adjust them stiff. Adjust them soft.
And sprung for my weight too.

Adjustable. LOL

(Come on....this ain't jousting yet? What do I have to do to rank as a jouster? )

But that's still a "one size fits all" shim and valving stack in your Ohlins forks... What if you own *norm* falls outside of what Ohlins decided was the *norm* for what they decided the majority of Super Tenere owners would want?

And believe me... I've got several Ohlins shocks for vintage MX bikes where Ohlins USA missed the dampening rates so bad the bikes were almost unrideable with the valve stacks they "computed" were the correct ones... And they missed the spring rates, too, despite having all the swingarm measurements, shock placement data, shock angle, weight of bike and rider, etc. sent to them several times. :

And how do you actually know they were "sprung for your weight"? Do you have the spring spec numbers from Ohlins on your forks?

No doubt the Stoltec forks are a fantastic bargain. I have no comeback for you on that.

What's mythical?

And yes, Ohlins cost a lot. Wish it didn't.

"Mythical" is how there are some (and I didn't say you, Snake) who keep contending or insinuating that the fork kit you got is somehow vastly superior to Stoltec's fork mods simply because it has the Ohlins name on it. No doubt the Ohlins kit is nice stuff, but just how much time did Ohlins spend with a developmental Super Tenere? Or did they simply re-machine to fit one of their existing fork cartridge kits just so it would fit in the S-10's forks and then sell it to you guys?

Apparently Ohlins doesn't want to do any additional development on the kit since they have chosen not to offer it further... Does that lack of further development by Ohlins suddenly make the kit *better* simply because nobody else can ever get it? Exclusivity does not translate into performance superiority.

Nick did do R&D on his Stoltec Super Tenere fork kit, and did with a Super Tenere... and he *CONTINUES* to develop it, refine it, and support it.

So you tell me... Which approach is *better*, and which is *better* for a customer who wants a fork solution now and didn't get in on the Ohlins kit buy?

And like AVC, I wonder why nobody who got one of those Ohlins fork kits wants to mention how much they cost... What's up with that?

Dallara




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[snakebitten]

Ok ok ok.

I have $3000+ in my mythical suspension.
I bought the shock and forks as a package.
Not sure how much the shipping and tax was on all of it.
And not sure the forks are still available.

But I don't see how secret it is since the price could be acquired by a single phone call.
Jaxon is pretty easy to get a hold of. And will talk TenereTalk for as long as you want.

Anyways, I have mine! No regrets. Stunning bike with a world class suspension. Almost mythical. (I decided I agree)

 

[avc8130]

Ok ok ok.

I have $3000+ in my mythical suspension.
I bought the shock and forks as a package.
Not sure how much the shipping and tax was on all of it.
And not sure the forks are still available.

But I don't see how secret it is since the price could be acquired by a single phone call.
Jaxon is pretty easy to get a hold of. And will talk TenereTalk for as long as you want.

Anyways, I have mine! No regrets. Stunning bike with a world class suspension. Almost mythical. (I decided I agree)

I've talked to Jaxon about suspension...it was a pretty one-sided conversation. The man knows skid plates and giant gas tanks like no other. Suspension? He knows he has a solid product in Ohlins.

If the Ohlins shock is ~$1k, that means you spent close to $2k on your fork setup.

For $2k investment into forks, I would be looking at Traxxion's AK-Gas.
http://www.traxxion.com/ak-gaschargedcartridgekit.aspx

Do you know what Ohlins did in the forks?

ac

 

[Dallara]

Ok ok ok.

I have $3000+ in my mythical suspension.
I bought the shock and forks as a package.
Not sure how much the shipping and tax was on all of it.
And not sure the forks are still available.

But I don't see how secret it is since the price could be acquired by a single phone call.
Jaxon is pretty easy to get a hold of. And will talk TenereTalk for as long as you want.

Anyways, I have mine! No regrets. Stunning bike with a world class suspension. Almost mythical. (I decided I agree)

The price may have been a "single phone call" away, but for some reason still strangely odd to me nobody ever wanted to post it on the forum, or anywhere for that matter... Why? Why was Jaxon so secretive about it here, especially when he posted about offering the fork kit?

I'm glad you're happy with your Ohlins components, Snake. In the end that's all that really matters, right?

But that said, that's a *TON* of money when you think about my Stoltec Penske rear shock and Stoltec Penske modded forks, with springs, shipping both ways, etc., etc., etc., all cost less than *HALF* that, and I got from a vendor who is a well known, highly reputable, very experienced suspension expert (that's all he does, remember) who fully supports his product. He's not a "broker" who simply acts as a middleman between you and Ohlins. He actually does the work on your forks, right down to installing the valves in the cartridges, changing your seals, etc. He's the guy with his name on the door, he does the work, and he'll be the one doing your rebuilds if you send your kitted forks back to him...

He also will talk to you as long as you want on the phone about actual suspension set-up, and he knows more about that than anyone I've met in over 40 years of fooling with suspensions - two- or four-wheels.

And he does that all for less than half the Ohlins price... No myth. Just fact. ::025::

Like you, I have no regrets about choosing Stoltec - especially now!!!

Dallara




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[snakebitten]

AC, Of course you can buy anything you want. It's your bike dude. Your forks. I've heard Traxion is good kit.

All I know that Ohlins did in my forks was take everything out of them Yamaha (which they returned fully assembled) and filled them back up with mythical Ohlins magic.

Oh, and it cost a lot.
I mean A LOT!!!

 

[avc8130]

Of course you can buy anything you want. It's your bike dude. Your forks. I've heard Traxion is good kit.

All I know that Ohlins did in my forks was take everything out of them Yamaha (which they returned fully assembled) and filled them back up with mythical Ohlins magic.

Do you know WHAT Ohlins magic? Ohlins has quite a variety of fork products they could have adapted for the Tenere. They range from mild to wild.

ac

 

[Dallara]

Do you know WHAT Ohlins magic? Ohlins has quite a variety of fork products they could have adapted for the Tenere. They range from mild to wild.

ac

Well, we know Snake and the others didn't get Ohlins TTX25 fork cartridge kit because that costs too *MUCH* to get it with a shock for just over $3,000 (the TTX25 kit costs around $2,500 just for the cartridge, with no installation, and especially without all the "special machining" that was supposedly necessary to put an Ohlins fork cartridge into a Super Tenere fork leg).

So that leaves us with the Super Tenere kits being based on either the Ohlins NIX 30mm R&T cartridge kit, which is current, or the old, now discontinued Ohlins 25mm R&T "Supersport" kit...

Now the NIX 30mm kit sells for about $1,450 with springs (about $1,300 without) retail, and the old 25mm R&T "Supersport" retailed for a bit more, but can be had all over the place for around $850 from anybody that has them. Here's just one example:

http://www.hardracing.com/OhlinsCartridgeKit.htm (scroll down the page).

In fact, you can get an Ohlins NIX 30mm cartridge fork kit with springs *AND* an Ohlins TTX rear shock with spring from Hardracing for $2,249.

Like AVC, Snake... I wonder which Ohlins fork cartridge kit you got. Is it listed on any of the paperwork you got from Ohlins?

Dallara




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[Ironhand]

Easy now fellers. Hands away from your holsters....

 

[avc8130]

I was HOPING to hear they got the TTX kits. Those feature high and low speed compression adjustment along with gas charged cartridges. THOSE are a ridiculously sweet bit of fork goodness.

Anything less and I'll stick with what I have. I've tried the Traxxion AK-20s (basically their 20mm version of Ohlins current 30mm valve) and I flat out wasn't impressed for ~$1200.

There is much debate about cartridge size and piston diameter. There are fans of "big" and fans of "normal". Either can be made to perform great.

ac

 

[snakebitten]

I gotta ask.

Why do you guys care? You aren't interested in them for your bikes?
You don't even have to worry about anybody else making the decision to buy them now. I don't think they are available.

The only thing that you might gain is that you could feel even better about your own decision.
But that is almost unimaginable.

Edit: NOT the TTX kit. Yea, that woulda been sweet.
Thought you liked the AK-20's? I remember you or somebody speaking wantingly of them to be available for the Tenere.

 

[snakebitten]

Easy now fellers. Hands away from your holsters....

It's been a hoot of a day!

I'm wearing down though. Now I know how my kid feels at Defensive tackle getting double-teamed.
Time for me to pat my helmet and get coach to send somebody fresh in.

 

[scott123007]

This thread is remarkably similar to the Tenere/BMW debates, and for a lot of the same justifications also. Just sayin'...

 

[avc8130]

It's been a hoot of a day!

I'm wearing down though. Now I know how my kid feels at Defensive tackle getting double-teamed.
Time for me to pat my helmet and get coach to send somebody fresh in.

He's gonna slap your butt as you trot off for your change. ::025::

BTW: If you have TTX fork internals you can officially color me jealous.

ac

 

[snakebitten]

This thread is remarkably similar to the Tenere/BMW debates, and for a lot of the same justifications also. Just sayin'...

Which side am I on then? I'm scared to ask. Lol

Actually, I don't care. I love both bikes too.

 

[Dallara]

I gotta ask.

Why do you guys care? You aren't interested in them for your bikes?
You don't even have to worry about anybody else making the decision to buy them now. I don't think they are available.

The only thing that you might gain is that you could feel even better about your own decision.
But that is almost unimaginable.

Edit: NOT the TTX kit. Yea, that woulda been sweet.

Because you said:

"As for the Ohlins fork cartridges on our Teneres, they are not a normal product of Ohlins. There is nothing in their catalog built for our Tenere."

Which, for one, is not necessarily true. All of Ohlins cartridge fork kits are based on only a couple of different sets of components. They are not unique to the Super Tenere at all. Quite the opposite. It is your Super Tenere fork legs that are machined and modified to have the Ohlins cartridges fitted, IIRC.

What does all that mean? Well, for one it means that if somebody wanted to fit an Ohlins cartirdge kit they could. If somebody at Ohlins can do the machining to fit so can others, but it would help to know which kit they fitted. That would make it easier for any others that might want the Ohlins components to get the easiest ones to have fitted. Is there any particular reason you don't want to share that info with other members of the forum?

You are right about one thing... I am not the least bit interested in an Ohlins cartridge kit for my bike. I love my Stoltec forks and the way they perform, and I am even more impressed with them after hearing the price Jaxon was getting for the Ohlins components.

But others here might want to know how much all these things cost... Or what exact Ohlins cartridge kit was used in the forks of those who had them done... That's what these forums are for, right? To share information? To help others make better decisions?

Dallara



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[Dallara]

It's been a hoot of a day!

I'm wearing down though. Now I know how my kid feels at Defensive tackle getting double-teamed.
Time for me to pat my helmet and get coach to send somebody fresh in.

Who ya' think Jaxon will send in for ya'?

Dallara



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[snakebitten]

Haven't talked to Jaxon since Colorado. So no coaching there.

And I think you know what I mean when I say Ohlins doesn't have a fork kit listed for the Tenere.
Parse it forever, but they said they didn't, and still don't. Instead, they agreed to build a kit for 10 sets of forks if somebody would send them a set to design off of. (I think they underestimated the effort. It wasn't as easy as off the shelf afterall)
Jaxon sent his.

The rest of the story is well documented.

And not sure why anybody thinks anything is top secret. You guys keep insinuating that its hush hush. Even using my new favorite adjective "mystical".
(Won't ever replace "kerosine" though) Just ask Jaxon. Then come post whatever you think is relevant.

And finally, I seriously doubt there is a single bit of missing Ohlins information that would cause you Penske disciples to change your mind about what others should purchase for their Tenere. Nice try though. But I get the feeling the last thing anyone should do is try to help someone else here decide to buy Ohlins. Lol

But I have enjoyed it. A little beyond my normal sparring. But I guess it was just my day.

Likely to return to my boring predictable self tomorrow.

There musta been something in the air today.

 

[Dallara]

Haven't talked to Jaxon since Colorado. So no coaching there.

And I think you know what I mean when I say Ohlins doesn't have a fork kit listed for the Tenere.
Parse it forever, but they said they didn't, and still don't. Instead, they agreed to build a kit for 10 sets of forks if somebody would send them a set to design off of. (I think they underestimated the effort. It wasn't as easy as off the shelf afterall)
Jaxon sent his.

The rest of the story is well documented.

And not sure why anybody thinks anything is top secret. You guys keep insinuating that its hush hush. Even using my new favorite adjective "mystical".
(Won't ever replace "kerosine" though) Just ask Jaxon. Then come post whatever you think is relevant.

And finally, I seriously doubt there is a single bit of missing Ohlins information that would cause you Penske disciples to change your mind about what others should purchase for their Tenere. Nice try though. But I get the feeling the last thing anyone should do is try to help someone else here decide to buy Ohlins. Lol

But I have enjoyed it. A little beyond my normal sparring. But I guess it was just my day.

Likely to return to my boring predictable self tomorrow.

There musta been something in the air today.

I was kidding about the "coach" comment because you were... Or is humor reserved for only one side of the discussion?

Have you looked at Ohlins USA or Ohlins main web site?

Not only do neither of them show any fork kits for the Super Tenere, they don't show a rear shock, either. ::025::

Look for yourself:

http://www.ohlins.com/Product-search/?query=Yamaha%20XT%201200%20Z%20T%26%23233%3Bn%26%23233%3Br%26%23233%3B%202010-2012

http://www.ohlinsusa.com/fitment (try and select XT 1200 Z Tenere and see what happens...)


And I thought your new "favorite adjective" was "mythical", not "mystical"... When did "mystical" get into the conversation? ???

While I'm at it... Is "kerosine" <sic> related in any way to "kerosene"? ::025:: (just kidding)

And once more, if Ohlins can machine the fork legs to fit their cartridges, so can others. Yet for some reason no one wants to reveal which Ohlins cartridges were used in those 10 kits. Why I can't for the life of me understand. I actually wanted to know so I could pass the information on to Ed Cook at AF-1 and see if he had any interest in seeing if he knew anybody that might be interested in doing the machine work necessary to install them (he knows some incredible machinists - one built some phenomenal adjustable rear-sets for my Tuono). That way if anybody around here ever wanted to try and fit Ohlins fork cartridges again we might be able to provide an avenue for that.

And who knows, maybe even Nick at Stoltec might like having the info in case he ever wants to try installing a set.

I'm beginning to think AVC was right. There is an air of "BMW" in this discussion, only it's more along the lines of what one hears when they ask BMW for info on how many final drives have failed, and the only reply is "We don't publish that information." ::025::

Dallara



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