I just had a mini hear attack sitting here in my office miles away from the bike and my manual. I reassembled my forks (in a rush, as usual) last night and for some reason it just occurred to me that I measured the oil height @ 150mm WITH the spring guide in the fork. I've not done a million of these, but for some reason, it just occurred to me that the level should be set WITHOUT the guide. Anyone know for sure?
Measuring fork oil height - with or without spring guide?
- Thread starter Ironhand
- Start date
Why don't you post the rest of the page you took that screenshot from next time...that way you don't mislead anyone since the part you chose to cutoff is exactly where the MANUAL recommends measuring the oil level and adjusting. The portion you posted is just to make sure there is enough oil in there to bleed and have some to remove when the level is set.OldRider said:
ac
Attachments
There was no intent to mislead anyone. I didn't CHOOSE to cutoff any part of the page. In a hurry I guess and I only read down to the part about how much oil was recommended and snaged that part. What the hell do you think it was, some kind of a big conspiracy to screw someoneavc8130 said:
\OldRider said:
No, I can't quote your post since you deleted it, but you stated something like "before anyone tries to argue with the factory manual" so you seemed like one of those guys that wrongly assumes that fork oil can be set by volume and not by height.
For open chamber forks, height is always the proper method.
ac
No worries Oldrider.
You should just know that the unwritten rule on the forum is when anything about the suspension of the XT1200Z is discussed, you must dot your i's, cross your t's, check your sentence structure, and be 100% verifiably accurate.
It's a scary subject sometimes.
Some of the liveliest threads though.
You should just know that the unwritten rule on the forum is when anything about the suspension of the XT1200Z is discussed, you must dot your i's, cross your t's, check your sentence structure, and be 100% verifiably accurate.
It's a scary subject sometimes.
Some of the liveliest threads though.
+1 to that. I am going to try to figure out how much oil the 150mm measurement equates to, just to satisfy my curosity. You would think that Yamaha would just tell you to temporarily fill to cover the damper rod vs 485ml, or whatever it says.snakebitten said:No worries Oldrider.
You should just know that the unwritten rule on the forum is when anything about the suspension of the XT1200Z is discussed, you must dot your i's, cross your t's, check your sentence structure, and be 100% verifiably accurate.
It's a scary subject sometimes.
Some of the liveliest threads though.
Love doing things twice, by the way. I'm much better the second time.
It's actually easier to say a volume in ml. You need MORE than enough oil to cover the cartridge initially since it has air in it.Ironhand said:+1 to that. I am going to try to figure out how much oil the 150mm measurement equates to, just to satisfy my curosity. You would think that Yamaha would just tell you to temporarily fill to cover the damper rod vs 485ml, or whatever it says.
Love doing things twice, by the way. I'm much better the second time.
When I do forks on the Tenere, I just dump 1/2 bottle in the leg and bleed. Then set the level with a suction tool. It's easy enough.
ac
Here we go again AC!!
To all,
You have to understand that the oil has a function and the air volume has a function. Together they create a fork response under use.
The air volume is a spring that acts on the suspension as the fork is compressed. It is an exponential action and can and does significantly affect compression damping. It also influences rebound at large stroke use.
The interaction of the fork spring, fluid viscosity, fluid volume, air volume (the other fluid), valving, and tire pressure all come together to create suspension action. Each component is important.
Yes, dot your I's and cross your T's. After all, the suspension has just a small effect on the ability to keep the tire in contact with the road. (insert eye roll here)
Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.
To all,
You have to understand that the oil has a function and the air volume has a function. Together they create a fork response under use.
The air volume is a spring that acts on the suspension as the fork is compressed. It is an exponential action and can and does significantly affect compression damping. It also influences rebound at large stroke use.
The interaction of the fork spring, fluid viscosity, fluid volume, air volume (the other fluid), valving, and tire pressure all come together to create suspension action. Each component is important.
Yes, dot your I's and cross your T's. After all, the suspension has just a small effect on the ability to keep the tire in contact with the road. (insert eye roll here)
Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.
Great, now you've gone and done it. There goes the finger.out of the dyke.
And let's not discuss changing a spring rate and then change fork oil height to vary the extent and point at which the interaction of the individual pieces come in to play.
Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.
And let's not discuss changing a spring rate and then change fork oil height to vary the extent and point at which the interaction of the individual pieces come in to play.
Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.
I found out some interesting information about how KTM "springs" and "oils" the stock forks on the new 1190.Firefight911 said:
They use SOFT springs (~.50) and use HIGH oil levels (~95mm). Interesting method. If I had access to a full array of fork springs I would give it a shot.
ac
I had this discussion with James at SuperPlush. Uhh, no thanks. My budget wouldn't support his ambition to play to that extent.
Truly amazing how detailed you can get by manipulating each individual piece to create response in very specific portions of the stroke. I got exposed to this when I raced with Vance and Hines. It was fascinating to say the least.
Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.
Truly amazing how detailed you can get by manipulating each individual piece to create response in very specific portions of the stroke. I got exposed to this when I raced with Vance and Hines. It was fascinating to say the least.
Sent from my Windows phone. Spelling errors free of charge.
Mark R.
Member
I just pour in the specified volume and call it done. Probably not optimum, but I can't really tell much difference in suspension anyway. Seems the internal volume of the fork should be consistent, like the internal volume of the engine, which is why they can specify how much oil to put in for an oil change. Start flaming........... >
Need to keep reading that oil change procedure too? That gives a volume to put in...then a check procedure.Mark R. said:I just pour in the specified volume and call it done. Probably not optimum, but I can't really tell much difference in suspension anyway. Seems the internal volume of the fork should be consistent, like the internal volume of the engine, which is why they can specify how much oil to put in for an oil change. Start flaming........... >
Why not set the fork level? Get so close to doing the job and then cut it short right at the very end?
ac
viewdvb
New Member
I agree that it can be a minefiel of interactions but, at its simplest, the effect of fork oil level can be described as:Firefight911 said:
Higher levels - the effect of the air compression is to create an increasing effective spring rate earlier in the stroke. Go too high and the air pressure will reach infinity before the fork fully compresses.
Lower levels - the effect of the air compression increase in spring rate will be less and will take effect later in the stroke - too little and the damper may not have enough oil to operate effectively.
There - not too painful was it?
scott123007
Well-Known Member
Well, only slightly more complicated than what you said viewdvb. Too much fork oil and the fork can't compress all the way regardless of air pressure. In other words, you could start out with a vacuum in the fork tubes, but it will "oilbind" (ha ha, get it? instead of coil bind), before fully compressed.viewdvb said:
greg the pole
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
so, since I had a brain fart last time I re-did my forks, and measured the 150mm with the spring spacer in...
how will this affect my susupension?
I have a linear spring from NIck, and the right weight oil in.
I'm having sleepless nights over having less oil in my forks
Should I tear back into them, or leave it till the next change?
how will this affect my susupension?
I have a linear spring from NIck, and the right weight oil in.
I'm having sleepless nights over having less oil in my forks
Should I tear back into them, or leave it till the next change?
Mark R.
Member
Er.....depends on the value of your time, and whether you like the way your forks are working. Seems to me you will be ripping your bike apart some time in the near future, and I suppose you could do it then.greg the pole said:so, since I had a brain fart last time I re-did my forks, and measured the 150mm with the spring spacer in...
how will this affect my susupension?
I have a linear spring from NIck, and the right weight oil in.
I'm having sleepless nights over having less oil in my forks
Should I tear back into them, or leave it till the next change?
However, if you are still losing sleep, and have that nagging feeling in the back of your mind.......................................... >