Let the tuning begin! 2-channel Auto Tune Installed

[avc8130]

I FINALLY got my 2 channel AT-100 installed today. As many of you have read, I'm hoping to work out an ECU-based fueling solution that actually WORKS for the Arrow headers.

I have replaced the stock o2 sensors with the AT sensors:



They fit pretty well, the inner sensor was a bit tougher to fit, but it's in.

The big connectors wound up in a bit of an awkward spot:



I'm not anticipating a problem, but just not the nicest spot they could have wound up.

I decided to mount everything under the seat as I anticipate accessing the PCV pretty often now to access maps and trim tables.



I have loaded the stock fuel map into the ECU. I have a 0 map in the PCV right now. I started with an AFR table that has 13.2 in all of the "power" areas and 13.8 in all of the "cruise" areas. My plan is to let the Auto Tune do its thing for a while and then create a PCV map. Then I will load this PCV map into the ECU fuel tables and iterate. Hopefully I'll start to see progress towards something good.

More to follow...eventually.

ac

 

[carrot]

thanks for posting this is perfect timing been thinking of doing the same to mine just added a yoshi and seems to be on the lean side. when did they start offering a dual o2 sensor i thought they said it only required one o2 sensor ?

 

[avc8130]

thanks for posting this is perfect timing been thinking of doing the same to mine just added a yoshi and seems to be on the lean side. when did they start offering a dual o2 sensor i thought they said it only required one o2 sensor ?

Might as well take this thread off on another direction.

Most likely you are NOT lean with just a slip on. Look at most of the published maps for the PCV. Just about all of them show the bike being RICH under acceleration conditions.

The 2 sensor setup has always been available, just most use the single sensor. I went with the 2 because I have a unique plan.

ac

 

[creggur]

Funny you mention this as I was going to ask you if the arrow headers could be accounted for with your ECU flashing.

Very interesting...

 

[avc8130]

Funny you mention this as I was going to ask you if the arrow headers could be accounted for with your ECU flashing.

Very interesting...

I've tried and I've tried. I've gotten close, but I can still make surging at ~2k rpm. I'm hoping this setup will help me resolve it all.

So far the only successful claims I have read for a surge-free Arrow solution all include the o2 Optimisers from Dynojet.

ac

 

[Karson]

I wonder if the cable length you're seeing is due to the AT-100 being "custom made" for HD's? Probably the only difference between the two AT modules, at least from what I can tell on paper.

If you drop in 12-14's in the PCV @ the range you're having surging issues with, I wonder if it fixes it like it did for mine.

 

[avc8130]

I wonder if the cable length you're seeing is due to the AT-100 being "custom made" for HD's? Probably the only difference between the two AT modules, at least from what I can tell on paper.

If you drop in 12-14's in the PCV @ the range you're having surging issues with, I wonder if it fixes it like it did for mine.

I think the length to the big connector is the same for all of their o2 sensors. The cables from the sensors to the AT boxes were different lengths, assumed 1 was for "front" and the other for "rear" on your standard HD or metric vtwin.

The AT-100 also came pre-wired with a connector that interfaces directly with the HDs. I cut that off and just wired into my fuse panel.

12-14s? As in % additional fuel?

I'm curious to see what the AT comes up with when left to its own devices.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Here is the "progress" after day one.





Sorry for the pics of the screen, but that laptop is my "garage" laptop and it isn't on a network.

ac

 

[tubebender]

Positive numbers richer?

And look where they are all centered!

 

[avc8130]

Positive numbers richer?

And look where they are all centered!

Yup.

All in the cruise range.

Remember, I am running WITHOUT o2 sensors.

Also realize I am targeting 13.8 in that range. Yamaha probably targeted 14.7ish.

ac

 

[creggur]

Don't have the first clue what any of this shit means....and that's cool - I'll be keeping tabs to see when you get this all worked out...

Good on ya AC for putting the time, effort, and brain-power in on this project...

 

[avc8130]

FINALLY the rain let up. I had to modify my throttle map to let me get more throttle positions at certain rpms more easily. I also increased the amount of fuel the AT is allowed to ADD and decreased the amount of fuel the AT is allowed to REMOVE.

Here is where I am on the AT after 2 days of commuting:





Some things I have taken notice to:

1. The "cruise" range is still lean without the o2 sensors hooked up.
2. The WOT is just about spot on right from the factory for the headers.

I'm going to keep AT-ing this week as-is. Then when I come back from a trip to AZ I will accept the trims and write the fuel map to the ECU. Then I will see what the AT does again.

ac

 

[Sckill]

That seems like a lot of additional fuel at around ~2500 RPM where stumbling happens. Are you noticing any differences so far?

 

[avc8130]

That seems like a lot of additional fuel at around ~2500 RPM where stumbling happens. Are you noticing any differences so far?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The problem is, I simply don't ride in that area much. I really don't understand why anyone would. If I am going that slow, I am working the clutch. I am trying very hard to make sure I DON'T clutch in that area and try to collect a lot of steady state data trying to hold those small throttle openings at that rpm range.

ac

 

[Karson]

Something I found is that there just isn't enough exhaust gas volume coming out at those small TB openings/RPMs to get a good read from the AutoTune O2 sensors....just something to think about re: some big numbers in those areas.

 

[avc8130]

Something I found is that there just isn't enough exhaust gas volume coming out at those small TB openings/RPMs to get a good read from the AutoTune O2 sensors....just something to think about re: some big numbers in those areas.

Maybe, but doubtful. If that were the case, Dynojet would never be able to use this same setup to tune Harleys.

The better question is whether there is reversion bringing fresh air back in leaning the mixture in the headers. This is also unlikely since the sensors are located pretty far from the end of the exhaust and BEFORE the collector.

Why would you doubt the readings? What other data have we seen to this point to dispel it? As far as I could find, I'm paving a road. I couldn't find anyone else who removed the stock o2 sensors and is taking wide band readings.

ac

 

[Karson]

Without knowing your target AFR's you've got in the AT, it's a tough guess. But my thought is at 2%/2250RPM vs 5%/2250RPM you don't all of a sudden need 14% less fuel at 5%/2250RPM.

The AT is going from one extreme to the other in attempt to match your target AFR for the short time you can hold that low RPM/throttle load chugging along a side street. I doubt you can get air reversion that far down the exhaust at those regions for it to come into play. Deceling hard starting at higher throttle, maybe, but then you've already likely chopped the throttle to 0% in the PCV+AT, so air reversion is a null factor anyway.

Your best bet, albeit my opinion, is blank out your AFR's in the troubled cells and manually enter fuel values. The 2k RPM surge is purely a rideability problem, so slowly increment fuel values with it on the sidestand holding the bike at a cell where it surges and keep going through regions it normally surged.

 

[Rasher]

Race engineering who offer the ECU-U flashes in the UK also told me right out that with the Arrow headers a PC-V is required to completely remove the surging.

They have flashed a number of S10's and fitted power commanders to a few of them, they also reckon the overall performance is enhanced, my guess this is because the ECU-U flash is still generic and they fine tune the maps on the dyno - I assume you are now able to produce a "custom" flash on your bike by using the data gathered by the Power Commander - A whole lot cheaper than a Dyno I suppose ::008::

Certainly race engineering swear by the PC-V / Autotune combined with a Flash, something I may consider over the coming winter.

The ability to tune (and customise) the cruise areas is handy - just a shame you* cannot do this differently for each gear with the Power Commander, or have a different setting for T mode.

* I said "you", I mean me, I would love a T-Mode with almost the same throttle mappings as S mode, but with fuelling designed to provide much better fuel consumption.

I must admit it may be tempting to just ditch the ECU-U flash and buy an FT kit / power commander to get all of the settings sorted and then just use that data to re-flash as I desire (I.e. per gear and a different T-Mode setup) and if the surge could be solved within the ECU programming I could sell on the Power Commander which would make the overall solution quite reasonable.

I look forward to hearing how you get on, good luck ::008::

 

[avc8130]

Without knowing your target AFR's you've got in the AT, it's a tough guess. But my thought is at 2%/2250RPM vs 5%/2250RPM you don't all of a sudden need 14% less fuel at 5%/2250RPM.

The AT is going from one extreme to the other in attempt to match your target AFR for the short time you can hold that low RPM/throttle load chugging along a side street. I doubt you can get air reversion that far down the exhaust at those regions for it to come into play. Deceling hard starting at higher throttle, maybe, but then you've already likely chopped the throttle to 0% in the PCV+AT, so air reversion is a null factor anyway.

Your best bet, albeit my opinion, is blank out your AFR's in the troubled cells and manually enter fuel values. The 2k RPM surge is purely a rideability problem, so slowly increment fuel values with it on the sidestand holding the bike at a cell where it surges and keep going through regions it normally surged.

I don't think I was smart enough to throw a pic of my AFR table on my Photobucket. I'll do that tonight.

I have been doing my best to decel at 0 throttle. I realize partial throttle decel could give bad data also. I believe that to be the case at 2%.

If you tilt your head and look at the data slightly different...

It appears the motor consistently wants A LOT more fuel at 2%.
It also appears that the motor wants A LOT more fuel ONLY in the surge area. Once out of the surge rpm things stabilize nicely over 2% throttle.

Does the bike actually SURGE with no load at 2k rpm? I've never tried it. This area is so irrelevant to me, I'm really just torturing myself trying to sort it out for everyone else. LOL

ac

 

[avc8130]

Race engineering who offer the ECU-U flashes in the UK also told me right out that with the Arrow headers a PC-V is required to completely remove the surging.

They have flashed a number of S10's and fitted power commanders to a few of them, they also reckon the overall performance is enhanced, my guess this is because the ECU-U flash is still generic and they fine tune the maps on the dyno - I assume you are now able to produce a "custom" flash on your bike by using the data gathered by the Power Commander - A whole lot cheaper than a Dyno I suppose ::008::

Certainly race engineering swear by the PC-V / Autotune combined with a Flash, something I may consider over the coming winter.

The ability to tune (and customise) the cruise areas is handy - just a shame you* cannot do this differently for each gear with the Power Commander, or have a different setting for T mode.

* I said "you", I mean me, I would love a T-Mode with almost the same throttle mappings as S mode, but with fuelling designed to provide much better fuel consumption.

I must admit it may be tempting to just ditch the ECU-U flash and buy an FT kit / power commander to get all of the settings sorted and then just use that data to re-flash as I desire (I.e. per gear and a different T-Mode setup) and if the surge could be solved within the ECU programming I could sell on the Power Commander which would make the overall solution quite reasonable.

I look forward to hearing how you get on, good luck ::008::

Yamaha doesn't play fueling games. Fuel is not done "per gear" or "per mode". There are 3 fuel "maps".

TPS vs RPM
MAP vs RPM
MAP/TPS Bias

Yamaha doesn't fuel "by gear" because it doesn't matter. They use load-based fueling.

ac