I want new fork springs/front suspension tune... Who's done it???????????????

[Waspworks]

I have been procrastinating for long enough now and have decided its about time I replaced the front fork springs for something that is a bit more correctly weighted for my size and ride style.
Not to mention the fact that the front suspension oil has not been changed from new which is now about 19k+ kms and nearly two and a half years... ??? Prolly looks like valve grinding paste in there by now.
I am 120kg after breakfast = 115kg after morning constitutional
I ride the bike faster in the bush than it prolly should be riden - Very rarely two up - minimal carp and farkles hanging off the bike.

I had a quick search through the forum but found nothing about folks replacing their fork springs and oil.. Not talking about valve replacement or full suspension rebuild.

Who has done it?
What brand/supplier springs did you use?
What oil weight/volume did you use?
Did you have to manufacture spring spacer tubes?
Whats the story of progressive wind verse linear wind springs?

On the front fork oil subject -
Who here has flushed the gunk from their forks before adding fresh fork oil? How did you flush them?????????????

My good mate Graham "Bargenator" has installed a Wilbers kit in his and is quite happy with the results but just wanted to put it out there.

Give me your feedback and experience guys.

Greg.

 

[3putt]

I replaced my fork springs last summer after getting pounded by the dual rate and slow high speed damping. Went with .95 but none in stock, they had to be custom built. Think now there are some available. BUT, I am like 80kg on a heavy day. Some others have also gone with this rate that are more like 95kg. I purchased from Traxxion, went with original oil and OEM height. They sent aluminum tubing for spacer material, but I used PVC with washers inbetween which came with the kit also.

Now having said all that, I have .90 springs on the way from Stoltec to try. If they are too weak will replace just 1 and that will give .925.

Give Nick an email, he is gaining experience with our bike everyday, as lots of folks are getting setup from his Penske shock and fork springs with valves. www.stoltecmoto.com

 

[Rasher]

I had mine reworked by MCT suspension in the UK at the same time as they fitted a custom built Wilburs shock.

The dual rate OE springs got binned, they are soft to start and quickly end up sat on the much stiffer bit which makes the forks mega harsh under braking, they also have no damping so tend to pogo, dive very quickly and rebound just as fast - like being on a see-saw when you pull up sharp at some lights.

The OE springs are 0.85 / 1.2 if I remember rightly, and the bike runs "Urine-weight" oil as standard. The springs also seem a bit long with too much pre-load (even with adjusters fully out)

I now have 0.9's in the front and run 10 wt oil, the front is set to sit at 60mm static sag with me on board, the general ride is noticeably better and it rides bumps in a far more controlled manner. The biggest gain seems to be in braking where the forks feel far more controlled and compliant and even when braking heaily they absorb bumps nicely where the OE setup was pretty nasty when braking on rough roads.


I weight about 85kg (but do a lot of two-up) and 99% on-road so cannot comment on off-road, you may want slightly heaver springs :question: 0.95's maybe, I would certainly recommend changing the front though, it is a lot sweeter for a relatively small outlay (I think it cost me under £200 for the strip / rebuild / springs - can't remember exact amount as the bill was for the shock as well)

 

[avc8130]

Rasher,

Just to keep terms straight, "60mm static sag with me on board" would be considered "60mm RIDER sag". "Static" sag would be just the bike without you on it.

Wasp,

You really can't go wrong with Nick at Stoltec Moto. He has setup a bunch of these Teneres now. I haven't heard of anyone complain yet.

I have his kit, with .95 springs. For my ~260lbs (130kg?) I think they might be a tad stiff on the road, but probably would work well if you hit the dirt. Generally I have ~1.5-2" of "unused" suspension travel showing on the fork leg after bombing it around the twisties.

Best of luck with whatever you choose. Getting the stock oil swapped, along with some straight-rate springs will make a HUGE difference in the front end feel.

ac

 

[3putt]

AV, acording to my calculator, 260 lbs is like 118 kg. The Wasp is a big fellow, like in "how big a fellow are you?"

 

[avc8130]

AV, acording to my calculator, 260 lbs is like 118 kg. The Wasp is a big fellow, like in "how big a fellow are you?"

I was using my "lazy" conversion factor of 1/2. Really it is closer to 2.2lbs/kg.

Either way, I think .95s for my weight might be a little much unless you bomb it on the dirt a lot.

ac

 

[tomatocity]

Thanks for the reminder Greg. This is something that so many of us ignore though should not. It is a simple upgrade and does not cost very much considering what you get in return. If your suspension was constantly talking to you you would upgrade in a heartbeat. Well our suspensions do talk to us and most of us just become numb to the message. Hands, arms, shoulders, and handling are compromised. The one thing I dislike very much is the slow speed dive. I will be contacting them tomorrow.

 

[YamaPA]

Here is what I have...........


Front Forks

Traxxion AK20 Cartridge installed
1.0 kg/mm spring
Maxima 7 wt oil @ 120 mm
95 mm preload spacer (Traxxion supplied) which equates to about 12 mm preload on springs when first installed and 5 lines showing on preload collars on the fork tubes.
46 mm bike only sag (static sag)
55 mm rider on-bike sag (rider sag)

I weight 210 pounds naked. The above results in leaving me a good 1.5 inches or remaining fork travel when bombing around on the street. You can always stiffen the bottom 1/3 of travel by adding more oil to the forks a little at a time until they behave as you desire if you find yourself bottoming a lot. Whether you pick a 0.95 kg/mm or 1.0 kg/mm or 1.05 kg/mm spring is going to be dependent on how the valving is set up. However, my sag is right at 30-33% of usable travel without about 12 mm of preload LEFT to be added via the fork cap preload adjusters....I like it that way.

I was Traxxion's guinnea pig for the AK20 for the Tenere. Overall the fork action is nice, but it may have a bit too much high speed compression damping. My AK20s were assembled with a 9mm clamping shim on the valve stack. I understand from Martin at Traxxion that subsequent AK20 were released with a 8 mm clamping shim after my first round of comments on the cartridges to him. I have the 8mm shim, but I have not installed it yet so I cannot comment if such is better or worse.

I'm still sorting out the suspension. I have a Penske on the rear and once that got installed, it changed how the overall bike behaved with the AK20s up front. The AK20s and the stock rear shock were impossible to obtain a balanced feel. With the Penske it's much better, but I really havent tweaked things that much simply because I havent been riding much since May when I collided with a deer. I will be taking a 5 day trip in the the next two weeks which will let me sort things out (on an off road) with the suspension.

Linear springs are almost always preferred to progressive springs. The only reason I could see using progressive springs is if your payload varies SIGNIFICANTLY and OFTEN.

 

[Firefight911]

Yup, BTDT. As you, I have the Ohlin's rear. Front was worked collectively between myself and Super Plush. James is a top notch guy and I'm quite happy. His resume speaks for itself. Posts/Info follow....

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3495.msg61981#msg61981

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3172.msg55253#msg55253

http://www.superplushsuspension.com/

::003::

 

[Waspworks]

Wow - Some great stuff here guys.
I will need time to have a good read through that other thread FireFight, but thanks to all you guys for putting your opinions and experience forward.
Actually you and I seem very similar in weight FF - I quoted around 115kg (250#) but thats in riding gear and ready to go. I normally weigh in at 106>8kg in my birthday suit.
SO the long and short is = I should start with the .95 > 1.00 (linear wind springs) and settle on similar oil weight and air-spring that you have experimented with?
Any idea who is selling/stocking this spring? Does your man from Super Plush carry this product?

Greg.

 

[avc8130]

Wow - Some great stuff here guys.
I will need time to have a good read through that other thread FireFight, but thanks to all you guys for putting your opinions and experience forward.
Actually you and I seem very similar in weight FF - I quoted around 115kg (250#) but thats in riding gear and ready to go. I normally weigh in at 106>8kg in my birthday suit.
SO the long and short is = I should start with the .95 > 1.00 (linear wind springs) and settle on similar oil weight and air-spring that you have experimented with?
Any idea who is selling/stocking this spring? Does your man from Super Plush carry this product?

Greg.

Greg,

I don't think you'd do badly starting at .95s at your weight. Before you choose oil weight/height, you need to decide if you want to revalve or not. With that fancy Ohlins on the back, your forks deserve a revalve to complement. Stoltec Moto stocks the springs you need...he can also help you out with the valving.

ac

 

[Waspworks]

Greg,

I don't think you'd do badly starting at .95s at your weight. Before you choose oil weight/height, you need to decide if you want to revalve or not. With that fancy Ohlins on the back, your forks deserve a revalve to complement. Stoltec Moto stocks the springs you need...he can also help you out with the valving.

ac

Yeh, I hear what you're saying AC but I didnt really want to/can afford to spend $500+ at the moment (assuming thats what it may cost).
I think that just a really good gunk flush and some good springs and correct oil weight/volume/air-spring will have significant impact to leave me very happy.

So do Soltec or SPS or Tabasco (or anyone else) carry linear springs suitable for our bikes?

Greg.

 

[3putt]

Speaking of gunk, I just tore down one fork in preparation of my new setup coming soon. Very dirty, gray oil in there and little tin cap on the OEM spacer is rusting. :-(

I think you will be pretty good to go with just .95 spring and fresh oil. I set mine up with stock air gap that I can't remember right now (thinking 150mm).

Edit: Service manual says 150mm.

 

[avc8130]

Yeh, I hear what you're saying AC but I didnt really want to/can afford to spend $500+ at the moment (assuming thats what it may cost).
I think that just a really good gunk flush and some good springs and correct oil weight/volume/air-spring will have significant impact to leave me very happy.

So do Soltec or SPS or Tabasco (or anyone else) carry linear springs suitable for our bikes?

Greg.

Greg,

I hear ya. Stoltec should have the springs and oil in stock for you. Shoot Nick an email, he is super easy to work with.

ac

 

[Firefight911]

SPS should have your springs as well.

I am of the camp you are and James at SPS is as well. A huge improvement for comparatively less money can be had with springs, oil, and stock internals with some tweaking. With your skill set you should have no problem getting what you want.

Mine is so far and away better than stock with what James and I did.

 

[Rasher]

Rasher,

Just to keep terms straight, "60mm static sag with me on board" would be considered "60mm RIDER sag". "Static" sag would be just the bike without you on it.

Indeed ::008::

I have virtually no pre-load on my springs and a few lines of adjustment so could reduce sag a shade, but not increase it much (but then from 60mm I would not want to!)

Mine probably come closer to the bottom in street use than some report, but I could either add a shade more pre-load or a bit more oil (current level is 150mm with spacers in) I doubt it will be an issue as I have taken it for a good old thrash down some bumpy roads and deliberately braked hard to on such terrain to check out how it performs.

Really love the more controlled feel, and like others prefer to stick with linear springs (which is what MCT have always recommended on my other bikes)

The valving on my bike is also untouched and seems to work fine with the thicker oil / different springs.

 

[tomatocity]

What are the lengths of the Stoltec and SPS springs?

 

[avc8130]

The stock valves aren't "terrible". What you get with aftermarket valving is smoother valves which allow smoother flow. This lets the suspension react more consistently and smoothly. Basically, it "smooths" the ripples and small changes in suspension position.

The aftermarket valves also have tuning done to the high speed shim stack. This allows Nick to tune when and how the high speed damping kicks in to deal with jolts to the suspension.

I would say you get 60% of the benefit for ~25% of the cost when you do springs/oil without valves.

I can attest that the aftermarket valving brought "traction" and "feel" to my front end. Similar to how the aftermarket shock did for the rear.

ac

Stoltec springs are same length as stock.

 

[Dallara]

~


Nick at Stoltec did the whole nine yards on my forks when I ordered my Penske rear shock... New springs, Penske valves, new seals, fresh oil, etc.... And I have to say I think the forks are dramatically improved. Not just the springing, but the *quality* of the dampening. Much more compliant, yet controlled. Nice and firm, but not even the least tiny bit harsh. IMHO, if you can afford it you really should consider having the fork valving done as well as just the springs.

But one important thing to note...

When Nick pulled the forks apart he said he not only found the fork oil *EXTREMELY* dirty - and I do mean *DIRTY* - according to Nick's description, but also quite, quite thin. He figured it was no more than a 0-weight oil. Maybe great for resistance to heat fading, but that's not a problem with these forks on this bike in even it's most demanding use. But even more thought provoking than that was the amount of bushing wear in both fork legs. Mind you, I have over 20,000 miles on my bike, but even with that Nick thought the bushings were wearing at a pretty fair clip. Not enough to be replaced just yet, but he recommended all the bushings be replaced in the next 10 to 12,000 miles. He also found that there was some odd "knitting" marks (as he called it) on one of the lower spring caps, and recommended those be replaced as well the next time the forks were apart.

Mind you, I would have had him replace all those pieces right then while he had the forks apart, but unfortunately nobody had any of those parts in stock at the time. Since then I have ordered all the bushings, lower set of spring cap guides, another set of seals, etc. so I will have them on hand for the next freshening up at around 30-32,000 miles.

Just as an FYI, when Nick put the forks back together he did so with 5-weight Yamaha fork oil... Saying that he not only liked the way 5-weight worked with the Penske valving better but also that it should offer better lubrication and lessen the wear rate of those bushings.

Last but not least... It might be important to note that though the S-10 forks *look* the part of off-road forks externally, they are far from it internally, built more like the average street bike fork... And things like the fork bushings are part numbers from bikes like a few years back R6, etc. Not that using such parts is a *bad* thing... I just wanted to point out these are not anything like the latest and greatest MX forks internally.

The new Penske rear shock and Nick's Penske valving, new springs, etc. to my forks have been the very best thing I have done for my S-10. I simply didn't realize how much the stock springs had *sacked* out over time. Now the bike not only rides better, is more compliant (yet firm) and comfortable, pitches less fore and aft, etc., but it also handles like a road racer, too! ::008:: ::008:: ::008::

Dallara



~

 

[snakebitten]

STOP IT YOU GUYS!

My goodness, I can't take it anymore.

I mean my checkbook can't take it anymore.