Have you had the hard start problem?

[EricV]

Mistakenly cross posted on the other thread regarding this, but I did get it going after about three hours and a pulled fuel injection fuse.

Then I stalled it and thought I was screwed. Fired right up.

Glad to hear you got it going. Now you know to not wait as long, and just go WOT once you realize it's not going to start normally. ::008::

 

[Xdriver]

Glad to hear you got it going. Now you know to not wait as long, and just go WOT once you realize it's not going to start normally. ::008::

Definitely. I'll be paranoid now.

 

[EricV]

Definitely. I'll be paranoid now.

No need for that, it really is a pretty rare occurrence. And now you know what to do, which makes it a trivial issue. If you don't keep cranking, you don't have to pull the FI fuse, just go WOT or nearly so and crank it and it will usually start unless the battery is low.

 

[autoteach]

had a hard start today. thumb slipped off of the start button on the second rotation and it didn't fire, then it cranked 3 revolutions before I opened the throttle at which time it fired. Smelled gassy, but without a doubt, throttle mad this "problem" a non issue.

 

[snakebitten]

That has happened to me too. Yamaha should have a better button to address this. A button the size of a half dollar should be goverment mandate.

RonH! You are suggesting an improvement! Almost a farklerequest. ( just messing with ya )

I wish the start button was like the one in the new autos. Both my truck and my wife's car is simply a push and let go. The ECU keeps the starter engaged until it's no longer needed.

My one and only hard-start episode was created by an accidental button release before start.

 

[Dunmore]

Just read this thread with some interest. I went to start my bike last week after it had been stood overnight. It refused to start, engine
turned over but didn't fire up. After trying a few more times without success I assumed it was flooded and held the throttle half open
while cranking. I could hear it catching every few seconds so just gradually continued opening the throttle. Just when I thought the
battery was going to die it fired. For the first few seconds engine sounded quite unhappy and there was a smell of petrol, but then it
settled down and all was ok again.
I had a similar issue the first week I had the bike. It may or may not be the same issue. I had been riding at a quite enthusiastic rate
for about 20 miles when I had to stop suddenly at a red traffic light. The bike idled nicely no problem, but when light turned green and
I went to move off, it just died abruptly. I tried to restart, but engine turned over without firing. I had to paddle the bike to the side to let traffic
behind me proceed. Assuming it had flooded, held the throttle about half way open and it reluctantly fired after quite a bit of cranking.
So it was very interesting to read the threads on here - as I was racking my brains to try and see if I was the cause of the reluctant starting.
The only common factor I can see between both instances is that it happened in both cases after bike had been ridden hard and then allowed
to idle for a while. On the occasion where the bike wouldn't start in the morning, I had ridden home the previous evening and then left the bike
idling when I went to lock the gates etc. Its as though the FI continues to pump fuel in at idle, at the same rate as when you were riding hard.
Next time it happens (if there is a next time), I might try switching it to Touring mode and see if that makes any difference.
Not having previously noticed the threads on this, the only previous experience I could draw on was when the float heights were set wrong on
my old FJ1100, the only way to get it to start after a fast ride was to hold throttle open and keep cranking, and there was always a whiff of
petrol in the air once it fired.
Anyway - Im loving this bike, only owned it 2 months but already done over 4,000 miles on it. ::012::

 

[twinrider]

I've had it twice, both times self-inflicted. First time I was playing with my Excel throttle lock while the bike was off. Seems that the S10 didn't like that and it was a hard start the next time I fired it up, fixed with the WOT. Second time, I started the bike up for a few seconds, then decided to take the other bike. Hard start the next time, again fixed by WOT.

 

[Rasher]

Once randomly, no known explanation, but it had sat for a while so I could not really remember the details of the last fire up, or if I had turned the ignition on and off, WOT fixed it

Second time after messing with electrics, wrongly assumed / hoped / believed turning they kill switch to off would stop any priming - it does not, WOT did not want to work so I pulled fuse.

3rd time was hot engine, came home and turned off, turned on again to mess with electrics - no problem I thought with hot starting, then needed to open seat and turned ignition off - at this point the bike had not been started, opened seat, put key back in ignition and no-go, WOT was not helping so pulled fuse again as now it seems easier if the bike does not start after 30-40 seconds cranking to just pull the fuse while the battery has life.

Although not a huge issue as it can pretty much be avoided, still bloody annoying not being able to turn on the ignition without then going for a decent run / leaving it ticking over for ten minutes.

 

[zzzzip]

Add me to list. Bike sat for about 18 days. On a tender. Plenty of fuel. Tried to start. No interruptions, nothing out of ordinary. Turns, but won't start. First bike I've had this problem with.

Exact same conditions for me. WOT worked. I used to have this problem on an FJR when you cycled the key several times without starting, and WOT worked too.

There was no cycled key on the S-10, so I was surprised it happened. Hasn't happened since.

 

[KenMcBreezy]

*warning* THREAD RESURRECTION! *warning* THREAD RESURRECTION! *warning*

Yes, I'm fully aware. I just wanted to toss out there that a number of times my tenner has failed to start while warm and sunny. I let the ECU go through its self check, and hit the starter between the check finishing and the fuel pump cutting off. Bike lives on its center stand when parked, and all hitting the throttle does is cause it to sputter so I generally don't bother with it. I usually have to shut the key back off, wait a second or two, and go through everything again. I never hold the starter button for more than ten seconds, and usually closer to 5. Easier to cycle the key again then exercise the definition of insanity by just holding the button when it isn't working. Just my two cents, hopefully it helps someone out in the future.

 

[TheHelios]

*warning* THREAD RESURRECTION! *warning* THREAD RESURRECTION! *warning*

Yes, I'm fully aware. I just wanted to toss out there that a number of times my tenner has failed to start while warm and sunny. I let the ECU go through its self check, and hit the starter between the check finishing and the fuel pump cutting off. Bike lives on its center stand when parked, and all hitting the throttle does is cause it to sputter so I generally don't bother with it. I usually have to shut the key back off, wait a second or two, and go through everything again. I never hold the starter button for more than ten seconds, and usually closer to 5. Easier to cycle the key again then exercise the definition of insanity by just holding the button when it isn't working. Just my two cents, hopefully it helps someone out in the future.

Not sure where I read it (probably buried somewhere in this thread) but I used to shut off the bike by putting the kickstand down. I had hard start problems every now and then. Now, I turn off the bike with the key and have had 0 issues of hard starts. Engine always turns over in 3 seconds and I've been worry free since.

Damn you kickstand. I thought you were the chosen one!

 

[TomZ]

Experienced this problem for the first time last week after 37k+ mi. I had just changed the oil, run the engine briefly to check for leaks and parked it on the center stand. When I tried starting it a few days later it coughed once and then would just crank without catching. Reading many pages of posts on this forum taught me several things. (1) This is a known problem that has happered to many ST owners. (2) The great majority of comments are worthless, thoughtless irrelevant babble. (It would be great but probably too much to hope for if moderators could remove the chaff). (3) The hard starting problem can be triggered by running the bike only briefly on startup and then shutting it off. (4) The problem is caused by fueling and can be overcome by cranking with the throttle held wide open (WOT).

Unfortunately, the WOT method often doesn't work the first time (and maybe not even the tenth). It may need some added magic. You can try putting the engine kill switch in the off position before turning the key on. This keeps the fuel pump from initially running. You can try cranking with the EFI fuse removed to help clear the excess fuel. If these combinations don't work at first (neither did my muttered incantations), you can just stop before the battery is exhausted and let the bike sit overnight before trying again. That's what finally worked for me --let it rest overnight, kill switch in the off position, switched on, WOT and cranked for maybe 10 sec. Success.

 

[Donk]

Having had the problem twice I usually use the kill switch to turn the bike off and then to start key on kill switch off until I hit the starter. While this seems to work it makes about as much sense to me as hopping around the bike on one leg and scratching my ear before hitting the start button. Feel free to substitute any word you want for ear.

 

[autoteach]

Having had the problem twice I usually use the kill switch to turn the bike off and then to start key on kill switch off until I hit the starter. While this seems to work it makes about as much sense to me as hopping around the bike on one leg and scratching my ear before hitting the start button. Feel free to substitute any word you want for ear.

i always get on the bike from the left side before starting unless I get on from the right side. It seems to help. But really, it doesn't matter what you sub for ear, there are a lot of placebos going on.

 

[KenMcBreezy]

So I'm guessing nobody else has luck with just turning the key off, waiting a short moment and trying again? I just kinda figured the ECU was angry for some reason and needed a power cycle. I should say I've never shut off the bike with the sidestand, except by accident leaving it down and putting the bike into gear. I generally drop to neutral, sidestand down, get off the bike, put it on the center stand, put up the sidestand and then shut off the key.

I'm wondering, I just had the bike in for its 6k service... after insisting that I was 2k miles late, the service department did an oil change and nothing else - didn't check my plugs or fuel injection system. I figure they are listed as checks for a reason, and either one could certainly be a cause for the problem. They could also be the reason my bike sometimes shuts off when coming to a red light, sharp exit ramp curve, or other significant slowdown... does anyone else have similar issues as well? I'm curious as to a relation between them.

(2) The great majority of comments are worthless, thoughtless irrelevant babble. (It would be great but probably too much to hope for if moderators could remove the chaff).

Personally, I'm not saying this for placebo stuff - just informational "this is how I park" in addition to the previous "this is how I start" - I think that in general people are/were sharing the similar info so that maybe a pattern might be detected. I also put my riding pants on, then put my jacket on, then put my helmet on, then get my gear situated, then get on the bike and start it, then put my gloves on while standing on the pegs before riding off the center stand, but I highly doubt that has any impact on whether the bike is going to start happily. The weather outside info is/was probably useful. Also, it's hard to make a post that isn't considered "chaff" when nobody has a solution, or really anything but *possibly useful* info to help try to discern the issue. Not to mention that making a comment about how "the info isn't useful to you" is useless to anyone else, so really someone could call your post "chaff" as well. Congratulations, you've joined the tired, poor, huddled masses.

 

[markjenn]

So I'm guessing nobody else has luck with just turning the key off, waiting a short moment and trying again?

Maybe it has worked in some situations, but for the true "hard start"/flooded situation that many of us have experienced, yes, we've tried it, and no, it doesn't do any good. Only solution is WOT, pulling fuses, and/or waiting overnight.

- Mark

 

[trainman]

maybe WOT is all placebo too? would like to know what the throttle bodies and the fuel injectors are doing in WOT

I believe with YCCT your right hand is only connected to a computer, I also suspect the bikes mapping probably doesn't understand a start sequence with someone hanging off the throttle full on!
maybe computer say 'no' and goes off for a cup of tea

WOT works on carb's for sure, have never been convinced on any FI engine, whether fitted with fly by wire throttles or not

 

[Dogdaze]

maybe WOT is all right hand is only connected to a computer, I also suspect the bikes mapping probably doesn't understand a start sequence with someone hanging off the throttle full on!
maybe computer say 'no' and goes off for a cup of tea

WOT works on carb's for sure, have never been convinced on any FI engine, whether fitted with fly by wire throttles or not

I have to be honest, I always thought Fi engines could not 'over fuel' and flood, to use a term. I even had a choke on my VZ1600, with Fi, I nevere used it, the bike would start every time and keep the revs up for about 20 secs then drop to idle.

 

[2112]

For the first time ever mine failed to start today, ironically on the way for it's first annual service. After much churning it eventually fired up with the WOT technique. Lets just hope it's a one off.

 

[markjenn]

maybe WOT is all placebo too? would like to know what the throttle bodies and the fuel injectors are doing in WOT

As been discussed in this or other "hard start" threads, it is common in FI systems to have a flooded start protocol that is engaged by WOT which opens the throttle bodies and shuts off all fuel. Not sure we've ever had hard confirmation that the S10 has such a system, but like I said, it is common. WOT is definitely NOT a placebo..... ten (perhaps hundreds) of us have found it is the only way to get the bike to start if it is flooded. If you continue to try and start the bike with closed throttle after a flood, you can crank until the battery is dead.... it won't start.

Someone may have actually tested what the TB's are doing at WOT and I recall something to the effect of the butterflies open 1/4 of travel and the fuel is cutoff, but this is all from memory. There are probably 1k+ posts on this forum about the "hard start".

- Mark