HARD START

[bvail]

Re: Very hard starting today

Possible that the fuel pump did not pressure up the fuel rail before hitting the starter button? Assuming the fuel system is similar to the FJR - closed circuit and pressured up? I bought a DL1000 from a fellow and he said not to hit the starter button until the fuel pump shut down. He said that the bike sometimes wouldn't start if he didn't wait. He also said that if he couldn't hear the pump cycle he would turn the key off and back on to get the pump to run. Did not experience this with the DL, as I would be sure that the pump kicked in before hitting the starter.

 

[markjenn]

Re: Very hard starting today

How many of you with starting issues wait for the ECU to cycle through it's little checks before hitting the start button? Just a thought :question:

I've mentioned this before and it is a good thought, but I'm sensitive about this sort of thing and always wait a decent period from key turn to starter button. Until a few days ago, I was patting myself on the back for this being the reason I've never had the problem. Repeat, until a few days ago.....

- Mark

 

[Tim Selwyn]

Re: Very hard starting today

mine has done this, it has over fueled, remove the fuel pump fuse, crank it over for a while then tap the fuse in and out, to give it a little bit of fuel , as it fires up leave the fuse in.
Worth a try
Tim in the UK

 

[Koinz]

Re: Very hard starting today

I don't know of anyone that's had "persistant" issues - I heard of it happening twice to someone, but that doesn't qualify. I would actually be good if someone DID have persistant issues, then Yamaha would have to get to the root of the problem.

For the di-electric silicone, sounds like a big job. When you don't know which connections are the problem, do you do them all? I don't think it's a water issue anyway - otherwise it would happen more often after a wash.

I would only cover the spark plug boots, ignition coil leads and connectors with di-electric. I'm not ruling out a moisture issue, but can't prove otherwise. Just my opinion, but I believe it starts as a moisture issue, then floods the engine with fuel and eventually kills the battery. Hope it becomes more persistent, it's hard to fix an intermittent issue like this. ::010::

 

[Tremor38]

Re: Very hard starting today

Mine always starts, started this morning at 14 degrees, started fine after washing a couple times. Another thought, how many guys having problems have been fooling with the air screws? Or other "improvements" similar. Just been my experience over the last 40yrs or so many a problem caused by mods. So you've fooled with the exhaust, intake, other things? Maybe the blame lays there and not Yamaha.

Most everyone who have had this problem have totally stock bikes. Though you may worship at the alter of OEM, I hope you realize that it cannot be perfect.

 

[pteppic]

Re: Very hard starting today

Like I say, I'm wondering if this is a common issue that plagues motorcycles with EFI systems when the air/environment is hot/humid etc.

I have an '07 Suzuki Wee Strom, and I live in the Central Valley of California where it gets FOGGY (very humid) in the winter. It's EFI, and I've never had a starting issue with it any time of year. Is this just a Yamaha problem?

 

[tc9988]

Re: Very hard starting today

Most everyone who have had this problem have totally stock bikes. Though you may worship at the alter of OEM, I hope you realize that it cannot be perfect.

) )

 

[GrahamD]

Re: Very hard starting today

I have an '07 Suzuki Wee Strom, and I live in the Central Valley of California where it gets FOGGY (very humid) in the winter. It's EFI, and I've never had a starting issue with it any time of year. Is this just a Yamaha problem?

Bloody Wee owners, always gloating, but it never happens to Vees either.. ;D

Now I've said that....

 

[markjenn]

Re: Very hard starting today

Again, any one instance of the problem is not terribly significant, but I just had the issue on a completely bone stock engine bike - no air screw adjustments, no ECU changes, never had any TB sync, etc. Other than the recall, I've never been under the tank.

I've owned perhaps forty bikes in my riding career and while I've had a few with starting problems due to outright failures, bad carbs, etc. I've never had a relatively new stock bike with an intermittent starting problem like many of us have had with the S10. And I've owned a FJR and never had a starting problem with it. While I guess there is some reports in here that the FJR has had the issue, I never heard about it during the six years I owned the bike.

So I don't think this is a "all bikes may occasionally have starting problems like this" issue, nor a general Yamaha EFI issue. IMO, it's something weird going on with the S10 - a software glitch, an intermittent sensor issue, an electrical connector issue, etc. Something is causing the EFI system to occasionally mis-fuel during starting on a statistically significant number of our bikes.

My advice to any S10 owner who doesn't get a normal start after a few tries - immediately go to WFO.

- Mark

 

[GrahamD]

Re: Very hard starting today

WFO.

?
Could you explain that acronym for me?

 

[markjenn]

Re: Very hard starting today

Could you explain that acronym for me?

Full throttle (wide f&^%ing open). Fairly common car/bike lingo.

- Mark

 

[colorider]

Re: Very hard starting today

Due to snow and home projects, my bike has not been started/ridden for close to two months. Its supposed to be in the 50's today and I have the day off from my current project, so I will go out and give mine a start and report back. The scary thing is that even if it starts today, it may not NEXT time!

::022::

 

[20valves]

Re: Very hard starting today

My advice to any S10 owner who doesn't get a normal start after a few tries - immediately go to WFO.- Mark

Agree. That's what I did and mine started, I've never had the problem since even though circumstances were similar, i.e., a few weeks between starts. The one thing that preceded the hard start on mine was that it had been parked for a few weeks with the "up to 10% ethanol" stuff in it. The bike has never fueled badly running the stuff but I've not had the hard start issue when it's been parked for a few weeks with 100% gasoline. Maybe I will some day, who knows? For now, it's only happened once, doesn't seem to be an ongoing issue and I'm not gonna spend a lot of time worrying about it.

 

[bvail]

Re: Very hard starting today

I've had 3 bikes with EFI prior to this one (still have GL1800) and never experienced EFI related problems. Hope this one is the same. I did screw around with one ECU, the FJR would 'hunt' when not accellerating or decellerating at relative low speed, causing the bike to jerk. This was caused by lean programing. I did the 'Barbarian Jumper' mod, reprogramed the CO settings via the ECU to richer and problem went away. But never a starting problem. My VEE would stall out making a turn (usually a left turn), maybe I just had the idle set too low? That problem went away when I sold the bike

 

[Scottie Boy]

Re: Very hard starting today

Agree. That's what I did and mine started, I've never had the problem since even though circumstances were similar, i.e., a few weeks between starts. The one thing that preceded the hard start on mine was that it had been parked for a few weeks with the "up to 10% ethanol" stuff in it. The bike has never fueled badly running the stuff but I've not had the hard start issue when it's been parked for a few weeks with 100% gasoline. Maybe I will some day, who knows? For now, it's only happened once, doesn't seem to be an ongoing issue and I'm not gonna spend a lot of time worrying about it.

A big ::026:: I still think that its ethanol related. Just my opinion, not a fact. My old DL1000 would do the same thing about once a year. If I cracked the throttle, it would start immediately and run rough for a couple of seconds until it cleared itself. Then it would run normally. Fortunately, my Tenere has not done this yet and hopefully it never will. Its a nice day out so I'm going to fire her up and go for a ride.

 

[colorider]

Re: Very hard starting today

Due to snow and home projects, my bike has not been started/ridden for close to two months. Its supposed to be in the 50's today and I have the day off from my current project, so I will go out and give mine a start and report back. The scary thing is that even if it starts today, it may not NEXT time!

::022::

Went out about an hour ago. Turned on the switch and waited for everything to cycle through, hit the starter and the engine "caught" and started immediately. I gave it gas a fraction of a second later and it ran perfect. I let it run until it came off fast idle and was up to operating temps and then shut it down.

::022::

 

[rem]

Re: Very hard starting today

I was pretty hard starting myself this morning. I hope I don't have to cut back on the ethanol. R

 

[GrahamD]

Re: Very hard starting today

Maybe a batch of sensors passed too close to Fukushima :lamp:

It could be that. We could all dream up lots of stuff, but it is really hard to out the finger on it until some measurements are taken WHEN IT IS HAPPENING. A real pain at the time for those that have it happen. YAMAHA (or probably Denso) will just have to have a bike prone to the problem and take it back to the labs, OR rig it up with some more data loggers.

Funny thing, I spoke to a guy who was selling his S10 last week 8) and he was completely oblivious to all this stuff.

Loos e spokes?
Hard starting ?
Bad seat?


He doesn't read forums much and has never had a problem with anything.

Make sure YAMAHA knows about every issue.

Cheers
Graham

 

[JohnB]

Re: Very hard starting today

i would not leave E10 in my tank for more than 2 weeks without some sort of stabilizer added. This time of the year, every tankfull gets stabilizer since it may start snowing at any time and I could be without a ride for a few weeks. In the prime riding months, I don't bother with the stabilizer. I can't get anyting but E10 around here.

 

[markjenn]

Re: Very hard starting today

i would not leave E10 in my tank for more than 2 weeks without some sort of stabilizer added. This time of the year, every tankfull gets stabilizer since it may start snowing at any time and I could be without a ride for a few weeks. In the prime riding months, I don't bother with the stabilizer. I can't get anyting but E10 around here.

Everybody's experience is different, but I have six bikes in my garage, several built in the 70's and 80's, all fueled with E10 (which is all that is readily available where I live) and each typically sits for a continuous month or so a couple times every winter. No fuel problems. I do keep the tanks full, the batteries charged, and each gets a good long ride every month or so. YMMV.

- Mark