Hard down shifting

[racer]

Anyone else seem to have a hard down shift in all gears. Not gear grinding, it just feels notchy compared to my DL650, unless I blip the throttle before down shifting. The bike has 6000 miles on it so it should be getting seated in by now.

I know, I know ::021::

 

[BravoBravo]

No issues here. Mine shifts up and down as smooth as poop through a goose. ::022::

-Bruce

 

[Yamaguy55]

If you pull extra extra extra hard on the lever, does it improve? I use 714 ProGrip grips and they allow the lever to contact the grip farther out than the stock grips. So I often have to pull fully in and then some.

I ask this as mine sometimes does the same thing. It acts like a dragging clutch. I've bled it several times, still mostly the same. I also use synthetic oil, so "less slippery oil" shouldn't be the case, either.

After having my clutch apart for the basket fix, I can see no evidence of warpage, or excessive plate wear/high spots/etc. I'm thinking that maybe the diaphragm spring isn't as good at a clean full release as a coil spring pressure plate. After I prove the effectiveness of the clutch basket modification we are undertaking, and during the winter oil change for storage, I'm most likely going to convert to the Barnett coil spring pressure plate. I'm going to pull the basket to be sure all is good. Perfect time for a new pressure plate. I'm thinking that will resolve most of my clutch drag. It isn't all of the time, but it is enough of the time.

 

[avc8130]

At 6k where in the oil change cycle are you? Have you tried cleaning/greasing your shift linkage?

There is a tendency for dirt and crud to build up in the pivot creating a poor shift.

I have been struggling lately to find an oil that shifts nicely past 2k miles after the change. I have tried Rotella 5w40 and Mobil 1 15w50. I'm not sure what I will try next.

There have been a few isolated incidents where a spring broke on the ratchet inside the shifting assembly of the motor.

ac

 

[Karson]

I have been struggling lately to find an oil that shifts nicely past 2k miles after the change. I have tried Rotella 5w40 and Mobil 1 15w50. I'm not sure what I will try next.


ac

Right there with ya. Shifts like brand new up until around 2,000 miles then from there it's noticeably less smooth till the next OCI.

Only been using Rotella T6, but may try Mobil 1 4t 10w-40. Next would be Amsoil from the guy here. Thing is, I'm not really a boutique oil guy since you can't just get the stuff at the neighborhood gas station. But I guess if I'm in need that bad, mixing T5 in there will be furthest from concerns on why I need oil.

 

[tomatocity]

Try this

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=3360.0

 

[fredz43]

Yes, many of us had this when our bikes were newer. Make it a point of regular maintenance to remove the pivot bolt, clean, grease, and reinstall and your problem should be cured.

 

[Dallara]

~


One question - Why wouldn't you blip the throttle during downshifts?

After all, that is the proper technique.

Guess I'm lucky again, but my S-10 shifts up or down smooth as butter, and I have no issues with any sort of clutch drag, etc. yet I only use two fingers to pull in the clutch whether shifting or sitting at a standstill - i.e. at a stop the clutch lever is pulled in to where it hits my third and fourth finger, so it never gets anywhere near the grip. It's been my experience with the Super Tenere that it has a clutch engagement just about like every other Jap motorcycle ever made - where the clutch engagement is out near the full release of the lever.

Just for the record, my S-10 has over 35,000 miles, is on the original clutch plates, and I've never been gentle with it. I also weigh... uh... a lot!

For you guys discussing oil, other than the first 6,000 miles I have used nothing other than Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils. Sometimes 20w/50, other times 10w/40 (it actually has a roughly 60/40 mix of 10w/40 and 20w/50 in it now since that's what I had on hand), and I regularly clean and re-grease the shift lever pivot.

I also shift a lot without the clutch at all - no problems.

Just FYI...

Dallara



~

 

[OldRider]

I just changed my oil from regular Yamaha Dino oil to Honda HP4 semi-synthetic (gold bottle) and the shifting has improved 100%. My Goldwing was the same way. The shifting would get real clunky and after an oil change, it would smooth right out for a couple thousand more miles. The oil does make a difference. JMHO

 

[avc8130]

~


One question - Why wouldn't you blip the throttle during downshifts?

After all, that is the proper technique.

Just FYI...

Dallara

~

Oh trust me, the throttle is being blipped on downshifts if I am the operator. You're talking to the guy who still double clutches all of his downshifts in his car. Why? Because it is FUN!

 

[Dallara]

Oh trust me, the throttle is being blipped on downshifts if I am the operator. You're talking to the guy who still double clutches all of his downshifts in his car. Why? Because it is FUN!

Take a look at the OP's original post in this thread... he says:

"Not gear grinding, it just feels notchy compared to my DL650, unless I blip the throttle before down shifting."

I was asking him why *HE* (racer) didn't blip the throttle on downshifts. Like you, I do on every downshift. Just habit from years of doing it, and that's how I was taught from day one riding on pavement. Sure, on MX'er's, etc. we used to just snick-snick-snick-snick down through the gears, sans clutch, entering corners, but that was on dirt with 200 lbs two-strokes that had little flywheel on engine braking.

But here we're talking about a big, big four-stroke twin, with a relatively large amount of flywheel mass, shaft drive, etc. Big difference, so I was wondering why he wouldn't be rev-matching on downshifts.

Dallara


~

 

[escapefjrtist]

Mine is doing the same thing. Upshifts are very nice, going down feels notchy and needs a firm foot. Seems to be getting better with mileage, only on the second oil change now. Running Dino Rotella T for the time being...hopefully the S10 behaves like my FJR and loosens up at the 8-9K mileage point.

--G

 

[tomatocity]

Some of us removed the shifter, drilled and installed a zerk fitting, and re-installed the modified shifter. I lube my shifter every 1-2 months. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[racer]

Anyone else seem to have a hard down shift in all gears. Not gear grinding, it just feels notchy compared to my DL650, unless I blip the throttle before down shifting. The bike has 6000 miles on it so it should be getting seated in by now.

I know, I know ::021::

Amazing......whoda thunk it! I pulled the shifter pivot bolt, cleaned it off (what little grease there, was stiff) regreased the bolt and put it back together. Smooth shifting again. The bike is like new and never off road, so I didn't think this would have an affect, but it is fixed. Thanks to all who replied. Racer

 

[snakebitten]

Amazing......whoda thunk it! I pulled the shifter pivot bolt, cleaned it off (what little grease there, was stiff) regreased the bolt and put it back together. Smooth shifting again. The bike is like new and never off road, so I didn't think this would have an affect, but it is fixed. Thanks to all who replied. Racer

I know. The first time you do this you are skeptical it can make that big of a difference.
But it does! Glad it fixed your issue. Now you know.

This bike just won't throw a real problem at you. Amazing.

 

[tomatocity]

When it happened to me I was on a trip to Las Vegas. I had ridden through Yosemite on January 16th on my way to the SHOT Show. Arrived Lee Vining and had to make a decision to continue or return home. I thought it was the transmission and returned home. A little bit of grease and I would have had a couple good Death Valley rides.

 

[Curt]

Tim saved me by replying to me plea here the first time this happened during a 3-day trip. Well, it happened a second time two weeks ago during a 3-day, 1200-mile outing to the sandy roads of the eastern Sierras. Sure enough, downshifting got progressively worse until it would no longer even go into first.

At the Bristlecone visitor's center, I took out some 3-in-1 oil* and flowed it generously into the gap at the end of the pivot while shaking the pedal up and down to loosen any grit. That did the trick, and it was immediately shifting like new again. I theorize that the tolerance of the shifter's axial position is so sensitive that a grain or two of sand in the gap can prevent downshifting. I won't even bother to take it apart for further cleaning... don't see any reason to.

*I carry a tiny 1oz contact lens fluid dropper bottle of oil, but other things like WD-40 would also clean it out.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Just remember that WD-40 is a Water Dispersing penetrant that is only about 10% light oil that will wash out with any future rain and wash water. The stuff has it's place and is frequently used as a first flush in flood vehicles (ugly trick of the salvage trade).


The WD-40 downside was seen in a series of airplane rod end bearings destroyed at a single operator because their mechanics were using WD-40 to clean "and lube" the sealed rod-ends. The penetrant was able to get past the seals to dissolve and flow out the petroleum, so some balls in the bearings wore to the point they were no longer round. The airplanes at that small Caribbean airline were unique in having this failure before the company was bought out.


A photo from that lives on at WbW and is linked below. Note the scarring on the ball in this sectioned bearing and the rusty surface of the outer race. The race's path for the balls is worn from the original spherical shape. (right edge of the photo)

WD-40 is also very hard on plastics, slowly hardening the surface with each application.


In other words, while WD-40 or similar would be a great trick to free up the shifter in the short term, make SURE to take it apart, clean, and grease it as soon as possible.


btw - This isn't meant to start a pro/con WD-40 thread, and there are people who swear by it as the cure for everything. Kinda like Windex in the movie "Big Fat Greek Wedding.

I'm just trying to give reason to not rely on a penetrating light oil for long term use in the shift mechanism or anywhere else that a real grease is needed. For example, I see it used on rear suspension links and would not recommend it. Use on chains is an entire endless recurring topic of its' own for another time and place.

 

[scott123007]

Just remember that WD-40 is a Water Dispersing penetrant that is only about 10% light oil that will wash out with any future rain and wash water. The stuff has it's place and is frequently used as a first flush in flood vehicles (ugly trick of the salvage trade).


The WD-40 downside was seen in a series of airplane rod end bearings destroyed at a single operator because their mechanics were using WD-40 to clean "and lube" the sealed rod-ends. The penetrant was able to get past the seals to dissolve and flow out the petroleum, so some balls in the bearings wore to the point they were no longer round. The airplanes at that small Caribbean airline were unique in having this failure before the company was bought out.


A photo from that lives on at WbW and is linked below. Note the scarring on the ball in this sectioned bearing and the rusty surface of the outer race. The race's path for the balls is worn from the original spherical shape. (right edge of the photo)

WD-40 is also very hard on plastics, slowly hardening the surface with each application.


In other words, while WD-40 or similar would be a great trick to free up the shifter in the short term, make SURE to take it apart, clean, and grease it as soon as possible.


btw - This isn't meant to start a pro/con WD-40 thread, and there are people who swear by it as the cure for everything. Kinda like Windex in the movie "Big Fat Greek Wedding.

I'm just trying to give reason to not rely on a penetrating light oil for long term use in the shift mechanism or anywhere else that a real grease is needed. For example, I see it used on rear suspension links and would not recommend it. Use on chains is an entire endless recurring topic of its' own for another time and place.

+1000 in everything you said.

It's probably the best product there is for removing chainlube on wheel, frame, fender, etc., but that's about it, LOL.

I just O-ringed that pivot. A bit of a PITA getting everything just the way I wanted it to seal without binding too much, but well worth the effort.

 

[BravoBravo]

Just remember that WD-40 is a Water Dispersing penetrant that is only about 10% light oil that will wash out with any future rain and wash water. The stuff has it's place and is frequently used as a first flush in flood vehicles (ugly trick of the salvage trade).


The WD-40 downside was seen in a series of airplane rod end bearings destroyed at a single operator because their mechanics were using WD-40 to clean "and lube" the sealed rod-ends. The penetrant was able to get past the seals to dissolve and flow out the petroleum, so some balls in the bearings wore to the point they were no longer round. The airplanes at that small Caribbean airline were unique in having this failure before the company was bought out.


A photo from that lives on at WbW and is linked below. Note the scarring on the ball in this sectioned bearing and the rusty surface of the outer race. The race's path for the balls is worn from the original spherical shape. (right edge of the photo)

WD-40 is also very hard on plastics, slowly hardening the surface with each application.


In other words, while WD-40 or similar would be a great trick to free up the shifter in the short term, make SURE to take it apart, clean, and grease it as soon as possible.


btw - This isn't meant to start a pro/con WD-40 thread, and there are people who swear by it as the cure for everything. Kinda like Windex in the movie "Big Fat Greek Wedding.

I'm just trying to give reason to not rely on a penetrating light oil for long term use in the shift mechanism or anywhere else that a real grease is needed. For example, I see it used on rear suspension links and would not recommend it. Use on chains is an entire endless recurring topic of its' own for another time and place.

Your cautionary notes about WD-40 are quite correct. I would add that WD-40 should not be used to lubricate locks. Graphite is the appropriate lubricant for that application.

Cheers,

Bruce