gear oil drain bolt - thread damage - help!

[JohnnieJimDominic]

First time post, but long time forum reader - and I could do with some help, as I'm unsure to what extent I have damaged my bike

First, a little background, I'd consider myself as a "novice mechanic" but "eager and reasonably capable around a bike" having had a variety of bikes over the past 10 years.

I recently did the 10,000 km service and decided to change the final drive gear oil while I was at it.

Basically, I messed up the threads in the final gear case when replacing the drain bolt. I thought I had it lined it up perfectly, but after a couple of short rides I noticed a little oil emanating from this area. Initially I thought I had not torqued the drain bolt correctly, so I tried torquing it again. When doing so, I noticed I could tighten the bolt without it every actually tightening/locking home fully. So, I decided to unscrew the drain bolt completely. As soon as i did so, I knew I had messed up the threads, as the drain bolt didn't come out smoothly. Then, when the oil from the case began to flow out, I was quite shocked by all the metallic particles in it

At this point, all I felt I could do was drain the "bad" gear oil and flush out anymore badness that might be inside the the gear case. I did this until I the gear oil coming out was as clean as what was going in.

I've been searching online to see if anybody else has the same unfortunate experience, but haven't found any resources.

My guess is, I'll need to replace the final gear case, and maybe, worst case scenario, some of the internal workings of the final drive assembly and drive shaft

So, my questions...
1. Anybody been as clever as me and done similar??
1. Can you order a replacement final drive case online?
2. What is the cost of a replacement final drive case?
3. Do you think any of the final drive assembly or shaft drive could be damaged as a result?
4. Any idea how many hours of labour my local bike shop could charge for changing the final drive case or, the worst case scenario, the final drive case plus part of the assembly/shaft drive??

I'll add a few pics later!

Many, many thanks!

 

[Combo]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I would go with a Helicoil repair before thinking about replacing the gear case. Others may have some better ideas for the repair but I feel this is one way and should work fine.

You can make this repair without taking anything apart. you will need to know what the thread size is to purchase the correct kit. Sorry but I am not sure of the size.

http://www.noblefix.com/PDF/Helicoil/HeliCoil-After-Market-Kit.pdf

M12 x 1.5 repair kit .....example:

http://www.handsontools.com/Time-Sert-1215-Thread-Repair-Kit-M12x15_p_77495.html

After the drill out you can do a flush as you did before to clean.

Let us know how it works out.

Bruce

 

[Koinz]

I'm sure you and/or repair shop can repair the damage by inserting a helicoil or equivalent device. You typically need to drill it out to accommodate the helicoil and the inner threads would be the original size of the drain plug. Use a new drain plug with good threads. Search the internet for thread repair. Lots of options.

Looks like combo beat my post.

 

[Mark R.]

You need to relax, and realize there are fixes for this situation. Try your Yamaha dealer first, or find another qualified shop, but there are things called Time-Serts, which are inserts that will completely replace the threads you buggered up. They screw in and replace the damaged threads. You might have to have the final drive pulled apart to get out all the metal shavings associated with your damage and the thread cutting to get the Time Sert installed, but then again, you might not. Properly installed with a good flush with kerosene might get all the chips out without disassembly.

http://www.timesert.com/

Keep us posted.

 

[snakebitten]

You will soon come back here and post that all is well and you are out a few bucks.
Don't lose a second of sleep over this. The advice above is legit.

Oh, and welcome to the board. Good luck.

 

[Duconce]

Oh no, that kerosene flush again......

 

[Ironhand]

A heli coil will work, but if it was my bike, I'd use one of these:http://www.timesert.com

 

[tomatocity]

Agree with Helicoil and Timesert. Either of these will provide better threads for the life of your Super Tenere. Not difficult to do yourself but if you have ANY considerations find a shop that has the experienced mechanic and proper tools.

 

[Mark R.]

Oh no, that kerosene flush again......

Yikes, I hit a nerve. Let me amend my previous recommendation by recommending an "appropriate solvent." Is that better ??? ;D

 

[Combo]

A heli coil will work, but if it was my bike, I'd use one of these:http://www.timesert.com

I have never used a timesert but after watching the video it looks to be better to me than a helicoil due to not having to punch the installation catch off the coil when the back side is open to a lube reservoir.

Thread Repair Using a TIME-SERT Insert

I learn stuff everyday on this site.
Thanks Ironhand. ::008::

 

[creggur]

15 years in the car biz, and I've seen both methods described above used in similar situations with success. You've not ruined your housing, and it's a pretty simple repair.

 

[escapefjrtist]

A heli coil will work, but if it was my bike, I'd use one of these:http://www.timesert.com

This ^^^^ Time Sert is the way to go for permanent repair. They've been successfully used many times for oil pan repairs on another forum i frequent...

Any competent dealer should be able to help out the OP.

Good luck!

--G

 

[Duconce]

Yikes, I hit a nerve. Let me amend my previous recommendation by recommending an "appropriate solvent." Is that better ??? ;D

That was much better

 

[motoguy]

I'd go with the timesert, I've used them many times. Including for head bolts on 500hp diesels. The one thing that is possible with helicoils in drain bolt apps is possibly leaking around the threads. Using red locktite helps prevent this. On the helicoil not the plug!

 

[bob dirt]

Use the timesert. Helicoil probably won't work as a drain plug. You have to buy the correct kit for the thread size of the new oem drain plug. I just put one on for one of my polaris ranger's rear diff drain plug. I had to use locktite on the timesert and had a hard time keeping it from turning back out, but in the end, a tight seal. Timesert costs more money but is a better fix than the helicoil.

 

[JohnnieJimDominic]

thanks lads for all the replies, much appreciated...

I've quickly looked into the suggestions, helicoil and timecerts, and they look great options.

However, I have a dreaded update to make to this experience, when a looked at the pictures I took of the drain bolt the cases, I noticed a tiny crack on the side casing - see below.

oh dear

 

[avc8130]

Thats not good.

Unfortunately, you are going to have to work hard for your options at this point.

I checked Stadium Yamaha and it looks like that housing isn't available as a spare?!?!

It seems you have to buy a whole new final drive...for $1k!

So that isn't the best option in my mind.

I would ask around for someone good at TIG welding. Have them repair the crack, re-drill the hole and install a thread repair.

ac

 

[JohnnieJimDominic]

I was afraid that would be the response (agreeing its a bit more serious)!

But, there are still options - and I very much appreciate your suggestion below ::003::

Do you think a thread repair insert would adversely affect the drainage of the oil (I assume, there'd be a "lip" on the insert so some oil may never drain)??

 

[scott123007]

Ok, there might be more to this story than you're telling us. That housing cannot just crack. Did you try a tapered or oversize drain bolt to try and rethread it after you realized it was stripped? Something like that doesn't just "happen". If not, you may have a case with Yamaha, even if it is out of warranty. There is no real integrity to that part of the housing other than to house the drain bolt, so you could use some type of epoxy on the outside of area where it's cracked after the threads have been repaired. Not as good a solution as getting it welded but a whole lot easier. By the time you disassemble it and prep it for welding (welding aluminum that has oil contamination takes extra prep) you may as well get a new housing. In this case, I would use a timesert because it is a solid piece and could help seal the crack. And no, the thread repair, no matter what kind you use, will have no effect on drainage.

 

[S_Palmer]

I agree with the posters above timesert is the best repair, but make sure there is enough clearance inside to do the install. The install tool must enter the inside aboutb11/2 to 2 in. Without the clearance disassembly will be required.

Fully inserting the install tool swages the insert so it won't leak or come out, do not try to go around this step.

Good luck